Does rebuilding a motor entitle you to claim lower mileage?

RAPID_BA · 11-03-2011, 08:07 AM

When looking for cars for sale, it really annoys me when people try and say the car has x amount of km when they rebuild their motors when in reality the odometer has 2 or 3 times the km they state!!

In my opinion rebuilding a motor doesnt wipe off the km from the odometer,
What about the gearbox, diff, shocks, etc etc etc

How does rebuilding a motor correct the general wear and tear on door hinges, sagged seats etc etc

This annoys me no end, do we concur?

DBourne · 11-03-2011, 08:19 AM

I concour

sudszy · 11-03-2011, 08:21 AM

Yes, I concur. To pay for the parts and labour to replace every suspension bush that has perished in an old car will cost just as much as a rebuilt engine.

There is also the issue that the chassis does suffer due to the km as well, it will flex more as the car does more km.

Never a fan of rebuilt engines, everyone Ive come in contact with there is always some issue, motor runs hotter, uses more oil, uses more petrol etc, they are just never the same. I suppose it depends on a lot of variables, who rebuilt it, parts used, how it was installed etc.

Brand new manufacturers engine, no worries.

However,when looking at older/classic cars, the engine is possibly the last thing that one should worry themselves with. Its fixing up the body, trim, seals where the big expense and part tracking problems happen, engines in that respect are quite straight forward.

LTDHO · 11-03-2011, 08:25 AM

Agreed. The odometer displays the age of the vehicle not the motor, in kilometers.

Unless it is a complete resto, including bare metal respray and everything replaced, then it's still the age of the odometer.

aussie muscle · 11-03-2011, 08:39 AM

Given the kilometers travelled in the city (and spent sitting at traffic lights), a 'work hours' meter might be useful, like they have on dozers.

GT0132 · 11-03-2011, 08:52 AM

As said before , a motor rebuild has bugger all to do with it....If I sell you my ex taxi done 900,000 kms and I had a motor rebuid 20,000 ago the car should be advertised as having done 900 not 20

All other items suffer wear and tear as well. However what the number kms won't cover is the car bought by a bloke who just sits in it and doesn't drive it ha ha - like I suspect the owner of that Group A HDT VL would have done with no kms on it after 24 years

Kms travelled can also be a pretty poor indicator of the quality of a car also. There are a lot of older low mileage cars around that still suffer age related issues like rubbers starting to perish....interior fading etc

colinl · 11-03-2011, 09:00 AM

The motor is just a small part of the car as a whole. The chassis of the car goes through cycles of stress as do the major assemblies bolted to it like dash, seats ect. Then of course there are all the suspension bushes, shock, springs and bearings. Cars usually feel nice and tight when new, but as the age they can feel much looser and can even develop considerably more noises. So aside from the engine transmission and driveline assemblies there is still a lot else that make a car feel worn out.

If someone offered to sell me a car in this manner I would be more likely to just walk away. It is an outright lie. Anyone claiming it is doing so to purposefully miss represent their car and deceive you. This isn't the best foundation to build the sort of trust required when buying a car of someone.

Jim Goose · 11-03-2011, 10:31 AM

One could say its misleading advertising too...

BLUEYBA · 11-03-2011, 10:47 AM

Well maybe in the ad they should state all the info rather than just what they want you to know. Something like "the car has travelled XXXXX K's but the motor has been rebuilt"
I do agree that its misleading if you don't do this

RAPID_BA · 11-03-2011, 11:07 AM

Every second ad on carsales is like this.

The odometer is a general vehicle age related measure. Carsales and other sites should take down ads that do this.

pottery beige · 11-03-2011, 11:47 AM

'rebuilt motor' is where i have many lol's... what was actually rebuilt.. oh my uncle bob did it and he's a mechanic..........

EFFalcon · 11-03-2011, 11:51 AM

i think common sense says no..

lol @ 'Every second ad on carsales is like this.'

what a gross overstatement.

Road_Warrior · 11-03-2011, 11:57 AM

Isn't this sort of thing illegal?

Streets · 11-03-2011, 12:30 PM

With older cars, receipts and service history (of all components, not just the motor) are worth a lot more to me than some arbitrary mileage number. Besides, I have never seen an analogue odometer on an old Ford that actually works anyway. That's even if it's the original instrument cluster...

The Yeti · 11-03-2011, 01:44 PM

An engine rebuild at 200,000km just makes it a 200,000km car with a rebuilt engine nothing more nothing less

**Polyal** · 11-03-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Isn't this sort of thing illegal?

Yes I believe even its a brand new motor from the factory it doesn't matter, odo relates to the car as a whole.

You just note in the service manual when the change was done so you can verify how many k's have been put on the "new" engine.

RedHotGT · 11-03-2011, 02:20 PM

Just out of curiosity...

Lets say for whatever reason my odometer stops working... and I need to get it replaced...

Is there a law to make sure that I fit one with a 'similar' range of mileage??
Or can my car with 350,000km be re-fitted with an odometer of 105,000km??

**GasoLane** · 11-03-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

Or can my car with 350,000km be re-fitted with an odometer of 105,000km??

I think this can, and has been, done many times.
That way the seller can honestly say the speedo has not been tampered with, they just don't say it's been changed.

jpd80 · 11-03-2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

Just out of curiosity...

Lets say for whatever reason my odometer stops working... and I need to get it replaced...

Is there a law to make sure that I fit one with a 'similar' range of mileage??
Or can my car with 350,000km be re-fitted with an odometer of 105,000km??

When you replace the odometer, you have to sign a statutory declaration as to the mileage on the old unit. XF Falcon was bad or stripping the odometer drive gear and you could go years without clocking up anything....

English used to like zeroing the odometer when the engine was rebuilt, I think this logic is carrying over with some people rebuilding their engine/transmissions but the suspension, frame and trim still have done a lot of miles....

Would any of us be happy with a 500,000 km taxi getting a new engine/trans and the owner setting the speedo as a low klm car?

Absolutely not.

RAPID_BA · 11-03-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

i think common sense says no..

lol @ 'Every second ad on carsales is like this.'

what a gross overstatement.

Is it? Log onto carsales and search used cars less than 100000km and less than $10k, more than every second ad

RedHotGT · 11-03-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

When you replace the odometer, you have to sign a statutory declaration as to the mileage on the old unit. XF Falcon was bad or stripping the odometer drive gear and you could go years without clocking up anything.....

The Stat Dec is fine - but I don't have to disclose this to the next buyer - and that is wrong...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Would any of us be happy with a 500,000 km taxi getting a new engine/trans and the owner setting the speedo as a low klm car?

Absolutely not.

Of course it's buyer beware... a car that has done 500,000km will most likely have some trim issues (from basic wear), doors saging possibly, pedal wear (something most people don't even look at)...

Alarm Bells would ring if it was me looking at the car...

But I suppose the point is - the time that is wasted in looking at a so-called low mile car that turns out to be a changeover/cut-shut/repair and sell job... is really painful...

Plenty of inspection companies out there that could give a second opinion... Even some that specialise in collector cars - and not just mainstream...

BENT_8 · 11-03-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

With older cars, receipts and service history (of all components, not just the motor) are worth a lot more to me than some arbitrary mileage number. Besides, I have never seen an analogue odometer on an old Ford that actually works anyway. That's even if it's the original instrument cluster...

Spot on!

Theres more to finding a cars actual history than the words in an ad and the numbers on an odometer.
I've been and inspected an EB once advertised as low 120,000k's and upon checking its service records it had reciepts for work done up to 160,000k's lol.
Shoulda seen the salesman backpeddling then.

Paint, trim, service and feel are alot more important to me than easily changable odometers and engines.

**GasoLane** · 11-03-2011, 03:29 PM

When I bought my Little German Taxi a year or so ago I got it from an honest man.

The Ad said "No speedo tampering here"

colinl · 11-03-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Spot on!

Theres more to finding a cars actual history than the words in an ad and the numbers on an odometer.
I've been and inspected an EB once advertised as low 120,000k's and upon checking its service records it had reciepts for work done up to 160,000k's lol.
Shoulda seen the salesman backpeddling then.

Paint, trim, service and feel are alot more important to me than easily changable odometers and engines.

I agree, but any misrepresentation of the true odometer reading would be enough for me to bail out of negotiations. People will always want to put a positive spin on something they are selling, but once that spin reaches a subterfuge that aims to cover up basic information I'm no longer interested in dealing with them.

I recently bought another car for my wife. We looked at a few at one particular dealer. Most of the cars had a sticker on the inside of the drivers side A pillar stating that the vehicles had been involved in a testing program. I asked the salesman what the stickers meant. He replied that the sticker is on them from new, and didn't really know what it meant. That to me was subterfuge. The sticker isn't a normal one fitted to new vehicles, and considering the yard was full of cars with this sticker, it would be reasonable to believe they specialise in buying these vehicles from some product testing program. I believe he knew exactly what the sticker meant, but just didn't want to disclose it to me. That was enough for me to decide regardless of what he had there for sale, I wouldn't be doing business with him.

RAPID_BA · 11-03-2011, 05:44 PM

Ive seen a few low km cars with the condition that didnt match up.

Scuffed/ripped seats and steering wheels, torn carpets, clunky suspension. I would think they would look new for such mileage (<50000km), my car looks like new and has more km.

I can understand the disparite condition to km if it was an ex cop car but not anything else.

Franco Cozzo · 11-03-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

When I bought my Little German Taxi a year or so ago I got it from an honest man.

The Ad said "No speedo tampering here"

Probably second time around haha.

gtxb67 · 11-03-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

When looking for cars for sale, it really annoys me when people try and say the car has x amount of km when they rebuild their motors when in reality the odometer has 2 or 3 times the km they state!!

what is the problem . . . . if the odometer says a certain number (and you assume it is genuine) then it has done that many k's
they are letting you know that the motor is still relatively new aren't they. the motor is not the be all/end all of buying a car, but a new motor can be a selling point, simply because the average person does not think as much about front ends, diffs and gearboxes as they maybe should

if a car has done only 100,000 k's for instance and has a new motor - then i would be more worried about how the whole car was treated, than the fact they were using a new engine as a selling point

as long as the odometer is accurate, i do not care what their advertising spiel says

colinl · 11-03-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

what is the problem . . . . if the odometer says a certain number (and you assume it is genuine) then it has done that many k's
they are letting you know that the motor is still relatively new aren't they. the motor is not the be all/end all of buying a car, but a new motor can be a selling point, simply because the average person does not think as much about front ends, diffs and gearboxes as they maybe should

if a car has done only 100,000 k's for instance and has a new motor - then i would be more worried about how the whole car was treated, than the fact they were using a new engine as a selling point

as long as the odometer is accurate, i do not care what their advertising spiel says

I think it is a problem. They can let you know the engine has only done a certain amount of klm without misrepresenting the odometer reading. Whenever I buy a car I inevitably end up travelling some distance to look at some of them. I would pretty p!ssed off if the ad said one thing, but when I got there the odometer showed a lot more klm's.

Personally, I don't see a rebuilt motor as a selling point. I've been in the trade too long and have seen too many crapy rebuilds. There is also a problem with what people see as being a reconditioned engine. People will throw a set of rings and bearings in a motor, whack some paint on it and claim it has been fully rebuilt!

gtxb67 · 11-03-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinl

Whenever I buy a car I inevitably end up travelling some distance to look at some of them. I would pretty p!ssed off if the ad said one thing, but when I got there the odometer showed a lot more klm's.

wouldn't you ask what the odometer reading was before travelling some distance though

if they do not advertise the colour, would you not ask what colour it is before travelling to see it

if it has a fresh engine, gearbox etc. then they want you to know about it. if the odometer reading is there for all to see or ask about before travelling, then where is the problem

in the original post there was nothing about the anyone lying as such, just showing the facts they want you to see, so a quick question or look would fix any problem

RAPID_BA · 11-03-2011, 08:49 PM

if they state an amount of km in the ad why would you ask how much km it has again? using the same logic if the ad says its blue would you ask what colour it is? Id be dirty if i went to see it and it had 3 times the km as advertised.

Sometimes in the ad they say rebuilt or new motor 40,000km ago??? What is that?