Rego checks

73gscoupe · 24-09-2009, 12:52 PM

Police are using number plate recognition tied into the database to nab unregoed cars. or anyone they dont like.

I have seen these guys operating here in vic on the end of the Ring Rd (Greensborough Hwy). The usual setup seems to be a van parked in the emergency lane with the camera at bumper level, then 3-5 unmarked cars pulling cars up about 2-300 meters down the road.

if your driving around in an unregistered car, your days are numbered. The two times i have seen these guys they were doing a roaring trade.

Anyone else seen this?

http://www.theage.com.au/national/number-plate-cameras-to-nab-road-offenders-20090924-g3ek.html

Number plate cameras to nab road offenders
THOMAS HUNTER
September 24, 2009 - 10:44AM

Police will use cameras that can read number plates to nab unlicensed drivers during a road-safety blitz over AFL grand final weekend.

The automatic number plate recognition devices, which scan at least 600 number plates per hour, take a fraction of a second to cross check information taken from the roadside with databases of drivers and their vehicles, enabling police to catch motorists that would otherwise go undetected.

"These cameras don't discriminate," Inspector Tom McGillian said.

"It reads every number plate that goes past. Whereas a lot of offenders bring themselves to police attention, like going through a red light, with ANPR it tells us straight away that the driver is someone of interest to police.

"These cameras diminish the potential for people who have gone under the radar in the past to continue going undetected."

Inspector McGillian said the device would help police find people who were driving unlicensed or with an expired license; unregistered or stolen vehicles; cars with stolen number plates; and cars that should be fitted with alcohol interlocks.

"Unauthorised drivers in particular are an issue in terms of road safety," he said.

"Last year they represented about 12 per cent of the road toll. This is a very efficient way of detecting those drivers."

The cameras will be used as as part of Operation Ardent, a four-day road-safety campaign targeting roads in the cities of Melbourne, Yarra, Port Phillip, Stonnington and Maribyrnong.

The operation starts today and continues until Sunday.

gcg2503 · 24-09-2009, 01:04 PM

Excellent initiative

I applaud it.

flappist · 24-09-2009, 01:05 PM

Note to criminals: Finding a car that looks like yours and then copying the rego plates is a sneaky idea unless of course his car is unregistered as well

Boosh Brus · 24-09-2009, 01:09 PM

I assume this system extends to people wanted for other crimes e.g. burglary etc?

flappist · 24-09-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosh Brus

I assume this system extends to people wanted for other crimes e.g. burglary etc?

Yes, and they have been doing it for years gradually improving the technology as it goes along.
I saw a system at least 5 years ago that did this at one of the P&M conferences in Sydney. QLD Police have a laptop in the HP cars that the officer not driving just punches the numbers into and they are surprisingly quick and accurate at it.

Wally · 24-09-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

"Last year they represented about 12 per cent of the road toll. This is a very efficient way of detecting those drivers."

I found that interesting because the estimate of unlicenced drivers in Vic was also 12% in 2005.

http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancou...asp?PageID=851

SVTVNM · 24-09-2009, 04:01 PM

Good idea I recon, I also think Australia should have a similar set up to the states, in wich you need to have proof of insurance for your vehicle. IMO. Get the un-insured POS's of our roads.

**Charliewool** · 24-09-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVTVNM

Good idea I recon, I also think Australia should have a similar set up to the states, in wich you need to have proof of insurance for your vehicle. IMO. Get the un-insured POS's of our roads.

Until it's made compulsory to have at least 3rd party property insurance. it ain't much good needing to show proof?

burnz · 24-09-2009, 04:40 PM

thats somthing i don't understand in V.I.C. apparently you have to carry your car rego.(someone confirm this)
where in N.S.W. it's illegal

balthazarr · 24-09-2009, 05:12 PM

How is identifying the car registration going to identify the driver? Obviously, they scan the rego, search the databases and check whether the car is registered, and presumably check the status of the registered owner's driver's licence. Registered owner /= driver.

I guess now if you ever drive someone else's car, you have to launch into 20 questions about the owner's driving history to avoid being hassled by the boys in blue.

I also see potential for significant abuse... the cameras flag that the registered owner of the vehicle has 9, 10 or 11 demerit points... so they pay more attention, maybe a little too much attention.

Teflon Turbo · 24-09-2009, 05:57 PM

i am suprised the sheriff isn't involved in this, i would say they would suite this kind of blitz too?

Pinkbits · 24-09-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teflon Turbo

i am suprised the sheriff isn't involved in this, i would say they would suite this kind of blitz too?

They are!
I have seen them set up on the Western Highway.
Blue van & camera on tripod
Marked & unmarked police cars
EPA
Sherriff's officers
Drug & Alcohol random tests.

Teflon Turbo · 24-09-2009, 06:34 PM

now thats more like it!

Iggypoppin' · 24-09-2009, 06:49 PM

What about those forgetful few who don't watch their expiry dates and whose rego renewals are late in the mail? Do they cop this too? You know, one day or two out of reg...

Streets · 24-09-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balthazarr

I also see potential for significant abuse... the cameras flag that the registered owner of the vehicle has 9, 10 or 11 demerit points... so they pay more attention, maybe a little too much attention.

Don't know what you're getting at here. Of course they're going to pay more attention to someone driving a car whose registered owner has lots of demerit points. That's the whole point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insp. Tom McGillian

"These cameras diminish the potential for people who have gone under the radar in the past to continue going undetected."

bangm001 · 24-09-2009, 08:32 PM

Yeah i approve of this. ANyone who has been hit by a drunk driver in an unregistered vehicle will know the head aches you have to go through, even when you are proved to be 100% not at fault..

kircher · 24-09-2009, 08:56 PM

I don't like this. It's one step closer to becoming a police state. I know the response "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about", but what if the government decided it would start doing random house searches for drugs, weapons, illegal immigrants etc? "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about" works for this scenario too, but I doubt many would agree to it. It seems this technology has the potential to be misused, and police could use it to intimidate people who have prior offences or people who have been flagged for one reason or another. It is pushing the boundaries of anonymity and our personal freedoms. Now don't get me wrong, I don't condone wreckless activities any more than the next guy, but this I believe is pushing it.

balthazarr · 24-09-2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

Don't know what you're getting at here. Of course they're going to pay more attention to someone driving a car whose registered owner has lots of demerit points. That's the whole point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

Don't know what you're getting at here. Of course they're going to pay more attention to someone driving a car whose registered owner has lots of demerit points. That's the whole point:

And why should they do that? Surely they should be monitoring the traffic and, you know, policing?

Let me give you a hypothetical:

Say you have a driver that drives for a living - they're on the road 40+ hours per week working, plus commuting to/from home. Statistically, they're more likely to have more demerit points than the 'average' driver.

The new system flags our hypothetical driver, so they follow the vehicle in an unmarked police car for a few kilometres, waiting for the slightest slip to issue another infringement notice. After all, this driver has a history, and is obviously a road toll statistic waiting to happen... as soon as the driver creeps 2km/h over the limit, or commits another minor infraction - they're gone. (Yes, yes... don't do anything wrong, you'll have nothing to worry about... sure, we're all infallible, and never make an error or have a lapse of concentration.)

Meanwhile, behind the camera operator, another driver with a clean demerit history has just cut off another car, almost causing an accident. Of course, the camera didn't flag it, so no one is paying any attention.

In this scenario, how is issuing the first driver with an infringement notice doing anything for road safety? It distracts the police from doing what they should be doing - policing the traffic and promotes ill-will towards police and those in authority. It also smacks of police-state.

Sure, fine cars that are unregistered - link the system to cameras that take a photo and then post an infringement notice to the owner. That way, they're still catching the owners that allow unregistered vehicles on the road, and they're not diverting/distracting police from doing what they should be doing.

burnz · 24-09-2009, 10:05 PM

if the driver is running low on point's what do you expect, he has a history of breaking the law.

kircher · 24-09-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

if the driver is running low on point's what do you expect, he has a history of breaking the law.

That's no excuse. It's intimidation, and far from 'random'. If he IS breaking the law at that time, pull him over. But pulling someone over because they have a history just to check on them is harassment. I'd say a lot of people, if not most have some sort of driving history. A lot of these people could be considered good drivers. A lot of people out there with perfect records could be considered bad drivers, but they keep a low profile, so don't get caught for the dangerous things they do.

balthazarr · 24-09-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

if the driver is running low on point's what do you expect, he has a history of breaking the law.

So much for innocent until proven guilty. Prior bad acts are generally inadmissible in a courtroom, why should they be when considering against whom to enforce the law?

I'd bet a decent chunk of change that if an unmarked police car was to follow any driver for about five minutes, they'd find something to book the driver on.

Failed to check your blindspot? Busted.
Changed tracks on the stereo? Busted.
Driving closer than 2 secs behind the car in front? Busted.
2+ km/h over the limit? Busted.
A rear brake light not working? Busted.
Failed to indicate the requisite 3 seconds before starting to change lanes (5 seconds if you're pulling out from the curb)? Busted.
Car inched over line at Stop sign? Busted.
Car started moving before seatbelt fastened? Busted.
etc. etc.

BHDOGS · 25-09-2009, 12:20 AM

Who says there going to start following people in unmarked cop cars because you have 1 demerit point left and honestly the benefits out way the down side.

Pinkbits · 25-09-2009, 05:48 AM

I think some of you are looking into it far too deeply and seem to be a little paranoid.

LTDterri · 25-09-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

thats somthing i don't understand in V.I.C. apparently you have to carry your car rego.(someone confirm this)
where in N.S.W. it's illegal

G'day Burnz, you dont have to carry the car rego papers but you must display a valid lable.

Bmobile · 25-09-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

I think some of you are looking into it far too deeply and seem to be a little paranoid.

Yep, I think you are onto it there.
It's pretty easy realy to keep a clean driving record. Just drive and be aware and be on the ball 100% of the time. Driving is a priverlage, and if you have let your concentration lapse at some time then you must wear it. If you have racked up close to your demerrit points, then expect some attention by the law if they choose. Man up and wear it.

I have done this in the past and lost my licence, and it was a mistake I was not going to make again in a hurry. I have now had a totaly clean driving record for more than 15 years. And yes I do drive, and I do drive for a living too. I have had nemurous V8's, highly modded cars, jacked up 4x4's ect and have driven around and cruised the hot spots like Redcliffe, Mooloolabah ect.

It's not hard.... just be aware of your surroundings at all times and you will have no troubles. You have proberly heard the saying "drive to the conditions" Now we arn't just talking about when it's raining you know. If you know it's a hot spot for the cops.... then keep away. If your paying attention and looking way down the road you will see the Dot doing the roadside checks.... and have time to do a u turn.

Easy to say, I know, but I can cause 15 years is a long long time. Just be aware.

balthazarr · 25-09-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

I think some of you are looking into it far too deeply...

And what's wrong with considering the ramifications of a new law/technology/police procedure, especially when it involves potential invasions of privacy, civil liberties and abuse of power?

As mentioned in previous posts, I have no problem with these cameras set up to issue fines to the (previous) registered owners of unregistered vehicles on the road. I do have a problem with police specifically targeting "high risk" vehicles (again, registered owner is not necessarily the driver), with nothing more than the registered driver's history to go on. Police the behaviour, not the history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

... and seem to be a little paranoid.

So we should all just stick our head in the sand and allow those in authority to do whatever they want?

Streets · 25-09-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkbits

I think some of you are looking into it far too deeply and seem to be a little paranoid.

I agree. The article doesn't even tell us what the police response will be to an unregistered vehicle/expired license/stolen car/alcohol interlock. The notion that police are going to tail someone with lots of demerit points and "wait for them to slip up" is absurd. A lot of people like to think the police are just hanging out to give someone a walloping but in reality the police have way, way more important things to do that waste their time dawdling along behind someone who may or may not commit a traffic infringement.

GS608 · 25-09-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streets

I agree. The article doesn't even tell us what the police response will be to an unregistered vehicle/expired license/stolen car/alcohol interlock. The notion that police are going to tail someone with lots of demerit points and "wait for them to slip up" is absurd. A lot of people like to think the police are just hanging out to give someone a walloping but in reality the police have way, way more important things to do that waste their time dawdling along behind someone who may or may not commit a traffic infringement.

General duties maybe, but not HWP, that sort of stuff is pretty much in their job description

john3136 · 25-09-2009, 09:36 AM

I don't have a problem with this specific initiative, but I am concerned with where Victoria is headed with law enforcement.

<Un_Informed_Rant>
With government support, they decide to blitz people going "just over" the limit.

They plan to breatho everyone leaving the MCG carpark (I can see the healines now: Police harassed by angry mob still trying to leave the MCG carpark at 2 am ;-)

Cameras that (apparently) have been proven to be not calibrated correctly still in use.

More fixed cameras (why no warning signs? Every has seen it - you get "flashed" that there is a camera, traffic slows down)

I'm happy to pay a fine if I earnt it (and I don't get many - last license renewal I got a discount for not having any infringements), but the constant denials that VicPol are revenuse raising is absurd. They are. We all know it.
</Un_Informed_Rant>

flappist · 25-09-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john3136

I don't have a problem with this specific initiative, but I am concerned with where Victoria is headed with law enforcement.

<Un_Informed_Rant>
With government support, they decide to blitz people going "just over" the limit.

They plan to breatho everyone leaving the MCG carpark (I can see the healines now: Police harassed by angry mob still trying to leave the MCG carpark at 2 am ;-)

Cameras that (apparently) have been proven to be not calibrated correctly still in use.

More fixed cameras (why no warning signs? Every has seen it - you get "flashed" that there is a camera, traffic slows down)

I'm happy to pay a fine if I earnt it (and I don't get many - last license renewal I got a discount for not having any infringements), but the constant denials that VicPol are revenuse raising is absurd. They are. We all know it.
</Un_Informed_Rant>

There is only one thing wrong with this statement. The word Un_Informed is not particularly accurate, it looks pretty informed to me.

But as I have said on many occaisions, the only way to fix this is with the ballot box.
Of course to many this is unthinkable, like not buying an AU falcon because they were ugly. But on the other hand if everyone had continued to buy AUs would there have been a BA? Or just another AU looking thing.

Unfortunately, denial of reality is not just applicable to "VicPol are revinue raising" and while you support the people who are behind the money grab, they will grab money. There is only one person to blame (actually 5,022,000 people as of the 2005 census).

P.S. This is not a pro or anti any political party statement. It is a "If they don't behave punish them until they do" statement. Just because you did not like or buy an AU one time does not make you a traitor to Ford or prevent you buying later model falcons does it......