Speed Zones for Pre-School/Day Care????

[Bonn]

Hi All,

It never ceases to amaze me that , in NSW at least, there are NO school zone style 40kmh zones around Pre-Schools and Child Minding centres.

Think about it - High School pupils are traffic-savvy, yet 40kmh zones are imposed, even if the back of the sports oval has a boundary on the road.
That's understandable, for reasons of parity, uniformity, etc.

What really s***s me is getting buzzed by morons at 50-60kmh sprinting through a 'short-cut', when collecting our toddler from the Local Early Learning Centre (aka Pre-School).
Countless times, have witnessed a mum or dad, loaded right up with back-pack, lunchbox, bedding, another baby, etc struggling to the car whilst their excited toddler sprints out towards the family car......

SURELY these infants are less cognisant of vehicular movement than older kids????? What's the story? Can someone enlighten me, if possible?

Is it just NSW?

A lot of questions, admittedly - just curious.

Cheers,
Bonn

[mike_nofx]

I guess because children being picked up from pre school always have an adult with them.

[Silver Ghia]

And adults hopefully should properly supervise their toddlers near roads.

[dieseltrain79]

In the perfect world . But those with kids would know they sometimes break free !

I agree with the idea , as a professional driver it's a good idea .

Problem is , most are on back roads and not much revenue would be raised ...

After all , that's what speed zones really are there for :?

[supershifty]

Same here in Brisbane for the early learning centres at either end of my street, yes they're adequately fenced, and every adult should be responsibly looking after their kids, as those of us with kids know though - they can get away in the blink of an eye.

[GhiaEB]

Ah let's just lower the national limit to 40kph. Most daycare/kindas are in back streets where the limit is 50 anyway. The limit is not the problem. It's drivers attitudes when driving in an area that may have kids running around. 20yrs ago back street limits were 60kph, regardless of environment,. Common sense was used. Sadly I feel the more laws that are introduced to protect the lowest common denominator, the less common sense is used.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by GhiaEB

Ah let's just lower the national limit to 40kph. Most daycare/kindas are in back streets where the limit is 50 anyway. The limit is not the problem. It's drivers attitudes when driving in an area that may have kids running around. 20yrs ago back street limits were 60kph, regardless of environment,. Common sense was used. Sadly I feel the more laws that are introduced to protect the lowest common denominator, the less common sense is used.

The number of tools speeding are definitely in the minority, so it could be as simple as 'traffic calming' making the short cut less appealing. Problem is, potential hazards don't seem to get the same attention as a recommendation from the Coroner - reactive seems to beat pro-active, where councils are concerned.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bonn

Think about it - High School pupils are traffic-savvy, yet 40kmh zones are imposed, even if the back of the sports oval has a boundary on the road.

High School, and Primary school, kids are also known to be somewhat stupid near roads as they're busy talking, texting and generally mucking about not looking for traffic.

Originally Posted by Bonn

What really s***s me is getting buzzed by morons at 50-60kmh sprinting through a 'short-cut', when collecting our toddler from the Local Early Learning Centre (aka Pre-School).
Countless times, have witnessed a mum or dad, loaded right up with back-pack, lunchbox, bedding, another baby, etc struggling to the car whilst their excited toddler sprints out towards the family car......

I wouldn't call 50-60 'sprinting' but Mum or Dad should be aware of the dangers around the area.

Oh, and I've managed to get 3 kids and 2 grandchildren to and from pre-school over the years without any dramas, but maybe that's because I take care crossing roads and taught them to do the same!

Originally Posted by Bonn

so it could be as simple as 'traffic calming' making the short cut less appealing.

'Traffic calming' (read speed bumps) is great, except when the Ambulance or Fire Truck is trying to get where they want as quick as possible.

[FPVF6X201]

The street for my sons day care is a rat run road and situated on a corner. Heaps of traffic in the AM and PM pickup times. Thankfully ours has a carpark to pick up the kids, but I do agree some sort of warning should be around these day care centres (like the old yellow sign of an adult holding a kids hand).

[trentski]

I pass a three day cares on the way to and from work and two out of the three have 40kmh zones

[Kryton]

Stop, Look and Listen.
Try it some time, instead of letting a sign dumb down society to the point that no one can think for themselves.

[NX74205]

While I agree with your general point about 40km/h zones around pre-school and day care centres, I must strongly disagree with

Originally Posted by Bonn

High School pupils are traffic-savvy,

In my experience, they're anything but. There's a high school just down the road from me, and driving through there during the end of the school day is a nightmare. I've seen too many kids cross the road without even looking out for traffic. The worst part is the drivers who acquiesce to that by stopping in the middle of the road and letting them cross even if it isn't a designated crossing area, so the kids think it's ok to cross without looking because the drivers will stop anyway.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

High School, and Primary school, kids are also known to be somewhat stupid near roads as they're busy talking, texting and generally mucking about not looking for traffic.

No arguments there, and you could include adults on the turps in that category

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I wouldn't call 50-60 'sprinting' but Mum or Dad should be aware of the dangers around the area.

The centre itself is on the inside of a curve, so vision is limited, and your open drivers door narrowly misses getting knocked off it's hinges, so speed's a relative thing. It's sprinting, don't worry.

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Oh, and I've managed to get 3 kids and 2 grandchildren to and from pre-school over the years without any dramas, but maybe that's because I take care crossing roads and taught them to do the same!

Good stuff, trying to do the same. I worry about the exception, having seen small exuberant grey shapes in winter, when 5pm is dark.

Originally Posted by GasOLane

'Traffic calming' (read speed bumps) is great, except when the Ambulance or Fire Truck is trying to get where they want as quick as possible.

I'd expect a Fire Engine, Police vehicle or Ambulance to launch over the odd speed hump, in an emergency - I would, so don't completely agree with that one.

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by trentski

I pass a three day cares on the way to and from work and two out of the three have 40kmh zones

Which state are you in????

[Bonn]

Originally Posted by NX74205

While I agree with your general point about 40km/h zones around pre-school and day care centres, I must strongly disagree with



In my experience, they're anything but. There's a high school just down the road from me, and driving through there during the end of the school day is a nightmare. I've seen too many kids cross the road without even looking out for traffic. The worst part is the drivers who acquiesce to that by stopping in the middle of the road and letting them cross even if it isn't a designated crossing area, so the kids think it's ok to cross without looking because the drivers will stop anyway.

Yeah, not saying the speed-zones are wrong for High School, but your right - my statement could have been less general, they do still playfight and text......

[LTDHO]

Why not make all roads 40kph? Afterall, kids are everywhere.

[MAD]

I fail to see the reasoning behind permanent 40 zones around schools with 8ft fences and locked gates after hours.

[TheSneakiness]

Luckily my sons daycare is 100mt off the road with a huge carpark.

40km/h zones to me anyway were introduced to protect the stupid.

[K93George]

I remember when I was around 11 and my mother drove through a school zone doing 40. Kid rode his bike right in front of the car, my mother slammed the brakes and missed him by a good few metres. She said "Lucky I was doing 40, if I was doing 60 he would of been dead". Being 11 I didn't think much of it but going back to it I would of said "Well, even if the limit was 80, if you can see a kid edging to ride/ walk/ run in front of you, slow down."

This is simple, no need for a 40k limit, just be sensible. In the CBD on a road that runs just opposite the mall in my town, there is around 4 pedestrian crossings within 500m, people walking in and out of cars on the road and obviously many cars parked. The limit is 50. If you do 50 on that road you are a moron and are bound to kill someone. I do around 20 and hover my foot on the brake. You need to anticipate risks, a kid on the side of the road immediately concerns me. This applies for cars as well, someone edging out of a blind spot most likely won't see you, if you slow that little bit down you minimise the risk of hitting them. Sure they will be at fault but hitting them because you had right of way is pathetic.

Now should we make that road with all the pedestrians and parked cars 40, or even 20 with speed bumps? NO! Because the road is perfectly safe for higher speeds when the traffic permits, such as out of business hours. No need to have a shift worker drive 40 the entire way through because morons think the limit is the speed you must drive. I understand school zones are only 40 at certain times but the same logic applies, limits don't solve people who don't drive to the conditions.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by K93George

I remember when I was around 11 and my mother drove through a school zone doing 40. Kid rode his bike right in front of the car, my mother slammed the brakes and missed him by a good few metres. She said "Lucky I was doing 40, if I was doing 60 he would of been dead". Being 11 I didn't think much of it but going back to it I would of said "Well, even if the limit was 80, if you can see a kid edging to ride/ walk/ run in front of you, slow down."

What happens if the kid comes out from behind the bushes and you don't see them until it's too late?

I don't know whether 40km/h zones are permanent over there, but over here, it's only during the start of the school day and the end of the school day (7.30 to 9.00; 2.30 to 4.00). During the rest of the time, or when it's a school holiday, the speed zone reverts back to whatever it happens to be.

I agree having to do 40 all the time on a particular stretch of road, even if it is wide and open, is crazy. But before school and after school, when there's lots of kids about, it's perfectly sensible. I agree with school zone speed limits on the proviso that they are not permanent.

[Ben73]

Yeah they probably should have them around preschools and such.

What was sad was when I was in Year 11 & 12 My school had a 40 zone around it. 11 and 12 were the only years in the school.
70% of the traffic around the school was actual students in the school.
We were old enough to handle a car and get a licence, but not old enough to cross the road without a 40 zone

[FGII-XR6]

what next 40K zones if there are children within 500 metres, mandatory external airbags that deploy while in any area where there may be children?
I'm all for safety but you can take it too far. there are far more child care centres than schools and drop off and pick up times vary considerably. we would have a situation where nearly every street was a 40K zone in daylight hours.

[Professor Farnsworth]

soon people will want a 40 zone and pedestrian crossing outside their house

things get a little out of control if you over think things

back in my day going to school in the 80's and 90's, we had no school zones. Sure there wasn't as much traffic, but the idiot-driver-to-student ratio was about the same. People also had far more guns, there were no airbags and the internet didn't exist in mainstream households

we all survived though

when will it end

[Bdazla]

Originally Posted by Bonn

I'd expect a Fire Engine, Police vehicle or Ambulance to launch over the odd speed hump, in an emergency - I would, so don't completely agree with that one.

Not sure you would really want an ambulance launching over a speed hump when you have just been in some form of serious accident. The jolt could be enough to kill you. I have heard a story where an ambulance had a crash which restarted a man’s heart from the force of the impact. So you never know I guess.

Fire trucks carry huge amounts of water which obviously does weigh a lot so I would think that some of the speed humps could actually damage the trucks at serious speeds. They probably could go faster than a car in saying this as they are a truck still.
Are there any Firemen or Ambos’ that could give us real world experience with this. I am curious......

I must say drivers are very complacent these days. Rather frustrating really. People really do need to pay more attention to what they are doing and not the radio, paper, phone, lipstick or whatever else they are doing whilst driving.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

soon people will want a 40 zone and pedestrian crossing outside their house

things get a little out of control if you over think things

back in my day going to school in the 80's and 90's, we had no school zones. Sure there wasn't as much traffic, but the idiot-driver-to-student ratio was about the same. People also had far more guns, there were no airbags and the internet didn't exist in mainstream households

we all survived though

when will it end

What we could do is rather than slow the traffic down have NO STANDING in school zones during the times they are active with a permanent ban on all 4WDs. There is no reason at all why the majority of children above lower school need to be driven to and from classes every day.

This may also help with the obesity problem as kids would have to walk at least 500m a day......

[Bdazla]

I live inbetween several schools and I crack it at the mums double parking in 4x4's and then speed off doing well above 50km/h in the 40 zones. And then they have the great idea of sitting so far up your rear in the back streets because you are going over the humps at apropriate speeds and driving at the speed limits. Oh and lets not forget that these same people are the first to cry wolf when something happens to their child but don't have any respect for anyone elses. Rather sad.....

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by Bdazla

Fire trucks carry huge amounts of water which obviously does weigh a lot so I would think that some of the speed humps could actually damage the trucks at serious speeds. They probably could go faster than a car in saying this as they are a truck still.

Our Alpha truck is a Mercedes Otago, which is fitted with airbag suspension. I drive slowly over the speedbumps etc, because even it has a rough ride over them.
We have a multitude of equipment on board, as well as out tanks of water & foam, and like everything it needs to be looked after.
Some may have less mechanical sympathy than others I suppose.

Ed

[Gaz]

I'm not that old, but back when I was at school from about age 5 I was taught "look right, look left, look right again". That was drilled into us and we didn't forget it.

More excuses to blame someone else for your problems.

[Bdazla]

Originally Posted by Gaz

I'm not that old, but back when I was at school from about age 5 I was taught "look right, look left, look right again". That was drilled into us and we didn't forget it.

More excuses to blame someone else for your problems.

I think there were tv adds for this too wasn't there????

[K93George]

Originally Posted by NX74205

What happens if the kid comes out from behind the bushes and you don't see them until it's too late?

Well, you can't expect someone to jump out of the bushes every time you pass one, good point though. I highly doubt anyone would deliberately hit a child but when the unfortunate happens they most likely didn't see the child. I don't see the harm in a 40k limit at particular times as it decreases the speed drastically to say 60 on a main road and therefore the potential injuries, because end of the day if a kid comes out from behind the bushes in front of your car at 40, 60, 80 and you don't see them until it's too late then you've obviously hit them, of course the less speed the better.

What if we approach this differently. Why not blame the vegetation for obstructing the view of the child? Make sure you don't have some massive bush that is meant to hide a fence in your backyard out near the road in front of a school, why would such a bush even be there?