Loose Steering - AU s1 Fairmont

ten[A]cio[U]s · 15-06-2011, 09:50 AM

Howdy All,

Long story short, my AU has had some steering issues for quiet some time and appears to be getting worse.

I first noticed this on a rainy trip back from Canberra (when I still had the 20's). It felt very loose and sloppy on the road. I thought it was caused by the tyres/wheels and left it at that.

Not long after that, the wheels were stolen and I had put the 16" xr6 wheels on and started to really notice an issue.

It basically wheels like the front end is loose and the car wobbles all over the place. Straight lines, corners etc it will randomly dart left of right depending on the bump I hit at the time, which is really starting to make me worry.

I have had a few thoughts of what it may be. It needs a wheel alignment badly so possibly I am over correctly when it goes out of line as I am used to the heavy EB steering not the ultra light AU steering? (doubt it)

Possibly the sway bar is loose? It currently has a 32mm Whiteline job that is only 1-2 years old, but I put this in myself?

Would old/stuffed bushes cause this? Or even buggered shocks/springs?

Any advice is welcome as this is really starting to make me worry and taking a lot of the job out of driving the old girl.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

bodes-sh · 15-06-2011, 10:19 AM

i was having similar issues with mine not long ago with 17's on it. got a wheel alignment and the toe was pretty bad on the left front. it was set back to specs and has been fine since.

how many k's are on the car? the steering rack might be getting worn (i think mine is) and need replacing. they're not too expensive. you can change it yourself but you will need an alignment before you drive it too much or you will just scrub tyres out.

from what i understand it's referred to as "tramlining" where the wheels are steering the car as opposed to the driver. mine was pretty bad especially on the freeway, you couldn't keep it in a straight line and forget about taking a left or right hand turn under medium braking, the car was all over the road...

ten[A]cio[U]s · 15-06-2011, 10:51 AM

The car has 175000 on the clock, but has actually done around 160000 (diff gears put it out).

I will get a wheel alignment done when I put the new 20's on and see if it makes a difference.

Is yours still doing this after the wheel alignment or is it still happening?

Pinkbits · 15-06-2011, 10:57 AM

Quite possibly the intermediate steering shaft.
The TL50 we recently bought was sloppy in the steering & the shaft was picked up on the roadworthy.
Cost us around $400 for the shaft as it is a genuine item only.
Much better & great to drive again.

ten[A]cio[U]s · 15-06-2011, 11:27 AM

If I took it into pedders they would be easily able to determine if the intermediate shaft had gone wouldn't they?

$400 seems reasonable considering how it feels at the moment!

JC · 15-06-2011, 11:48 AM

If it's the intermediate shaft, you should hear it clicking when you turn.

I'd say you have very worn ball joints - take it to Pedders for their 28 point safety check - they will pick up anything wrong with it.

**Polyal** · 15-06-2011, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

I'd say you have very worn ball joints - take it to Pedders for their 28 point safety check - they will pick up anything wrong with it.

And then get someone else to do the work..LOL Im yet to have a good experience with them.

svo supporter · 15-06-2011, 06:51 PM

Have the front end checked out, as what you have described could either be worn front end bits, or the wheel alignment is out miles. However my bet is, worn front end bits.

BODES-SH. What do you mean, the left front toe was out? Doesn't make any sense to me, and I do wheel alignments for a crust.

**Mechan1k** · 15-06-2011, 07:08 PM

I'm going with intermediate steering shaft as well.
My AUII one was stuffed ... I was literally countersteering to keep it on my side of the road.

I had no clicking though.

I bought a 2nd hand good one from FTG a while back for about $110. Once installed it was amazing to have good steeting back again.

If you have someone shifting the steering wheel left/right while you have your head under the bonnet ... you can see the shaft from the firewall down to the rack ... there is like a mid-section with a bush and pin through it ... if the top section moved and the lower section doesn't ... it's definitely the shaft.

V3RSAC3 · 15-06-2011, 07:09 PM

Same problem I had on my AU1 Fairmont at 175k, it was my ball joints that snapped. Kept getting worse and worse, felt like the front axle was about to snap off.

bodes-sh · 15-06-2011, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Have the front end checked out, as what you have described could either be worn front end bits, or the wheel alignment is out miles. However my bet is, worn front end bits.

BODES-SH. What do you mean, the left front toe was out? Doesn't make any sense to me, and I do wheel alignments for a crust.

Yep, I know you do. I was expecting your reply in here... from memory there was either way too much toe in or out on the front left, it was nearly double the spec. I have no idea why, the car hadn't been driven too much prior, so I dunno... I don't think I have the alignment sheet anymore so I can't chech it to see how far it was and which way.

**GasoLane** · 16-06-2011, 03:14 PM

Take it to Tony at Riverina Steering, next to BBQ,s Galore, a good bloke and wont rip you off.

svo supporter · 16-06-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

Yep, I know you do. I was expecting your reply in here... from memory there was either way too much toe in or out on the front left, it was nearly double the spec. I have no idea why, the car hadn't been driven too much prior, so I dunno... I don't think I have the alignment sheet anymore so I can't chech it to see how far it was and which way.

Curiosity. Was the steering wheel off centre?

bodes-sh · 17-06-2011, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Curiosity. Was the steering wheel off centre?

Yep, pretty sure it was pulling left fairly badly too.

svo supporter · 17-06-2011, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

Yep, pretty sure it was pulling left fairly badly too.

Explains why they said the toe was bad on the left.

Generally when you're adjusting the toe on a car, if the steering wheel is central, you turn the rack ends an even amount. However if it's off centred, you're adjusting one end more than the other to centralise the steering wheel. (Make sense)

So the mob that did the alignment were trying to be smart in justifying why you had tyre wear, instead of saying it straight out.

bodes-sh · 18-06-2011, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Explains why they said the toe was bad on the left.

Generally when you're adjusting the toe on a car, if the steering wheel is central, you turn the rack ends an even amount. However if it's off centred, you're adjusting one end more than the other to centralise the steering wheel. (Make sense)

So the mob that did the alignment were trying to be smart in justifying why you had tyre wear, instead of saying it straight out.

Nope, not quite the case. I knew the toe was out myself, front left was getting slight inside edge wear, plus the pulling. That's the main reason i got the alignment. I actually saw the alignment being done and got the print out afterwards showing previous angles. I'm pretty sure toe was almost double what it should have been. From memory somewhere around the -1.5deg mark when it should be about +0.7deg...

Anyway, that's getting off topic now, although it could be a similar issue to the op

svo supporter · 18-06-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

Nope, not quite the case. I knew the toe was out myself, front left was getting slight inside edge wear, plus the pulling. That's the main reason i got the alignment. I actually saw the alignment being done and got the print out afterwards showing previous angles. I'm pretty sure toe was almost double what it should have been. From memory somewhere around the -1.5deg mark when it should be about +0.7deg...

Anyway, that's getting off topic now, although it could be a similar issue to the op

You obviously didn't understand what I had written about toe adjusting and how it effects the straightness of a steering wheel.

So to help a little more. Before the adjustment is made, the steering wheel is locked in place, where ever the operator wants it to end up, after adjustments are made. So if I were to lock the steering wheel on your car so the toe readings were even before I adjusted it, once the adjustments were made, the steering wheel would come out exactly where it was when you presented the car to me for the job. ie crooked..... off centred....not straight.

Or alternatively, I could lock the stering wheel, so your left hand toe showed +7 deg and adjusted accordingly. This would have meant after adjustment the steering wheel would have been off centred the opposite way to what it previously was. So then it'd be more difficult to make up a weak explanation, like the place did, as to why you had the tyre wear issue

Oh and you are right. It is going off topic and no it has nothing to do with the OP's problem.

bodes-sh · 18-06-2011, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

You obviously didn't understand what I had written about toe adjusting and how it effects the straightness of a steering wheel.

So to help a little more. Before the adjustment is made, the steering wheel is locked in place, where ever the operator wants it to end up, after adjustments are made. So if I were to lock the steering wheel on your car so the toe readings were even before I adjusted it, once the adjustments were made, the steering wheel would come out exactly where it was when you presented the car to me for the job. ie crooked..... off centred....not straight.

Or alternatively, I could lock the stering wheel, so your left hand toe showed +7 deg and adjusted accordingly. This would have meant after adjustment the steering wheel would have been off centred the opposite way to what it previously was. So then it'd be more difficult to make up a weak explanation, like the place did, as to why you had the tyre wear issue

Oh and you are right. It is going off topic and no it has nothing to do with the OP's problem.

i understood perfectly what you said about adjusting toe. the specs i had on there were what it was reading when he had the steering wheel set straight ahead. these were on the print out after the alignment had been finished. i can't actually remember if the steering wheel was off centre, i think it was very slightly, but it know it was pulling left a fair bit, and contrary to what i said above i actually vaguely remember the left tyre wear was ok but the inside edge of the front right was wearing excessively.

the tyre shop never said anything about tyre wear to me at all, in fact i told them when i got there that the front left (i swapped left to right before the alignment) had inside edge wear, but it had been on the front right. (swapped them because i didn't know how long until i was going to be able to get it in for an alignment).

funnily enough, even though i don't work in the tyre industry i know enough about how different alignment settings need to be adjusted and how they affect the way the car drives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy-au

The car has 175000 on the clock, but has actually done around 160000 (diff gears put it out).

I will get a wheel alignment done when I put the new 20's on and see if it makes a difference.

Is yours still doing this after the wheel alignment or is it still happening?

sorry i didn't reply to this earlier. it is fine now after an alignment, doesn't pull either way on different road surfaces.

svo supporter · 18-06-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

i understood perfectly what you said about adjusting toe. the specs i had on there were what it was reading when he had the steering wheel set straight ahead. these were on the print out after the alignment had been finished. i can't actually remember if the steering wheel was off centre, i think it was very slightly, but it know it was pulling left a fair bit, and contrary to what i said above i actually vaguely remember the left tyre wear was ok but the inside edge of the front right was wearing excessively.

the tyre shop never said anything about tyre wear to me at all, in fact i told them when i got there that the front left (i swapped left to right before the alignment) had inside edge wear, but it had been on the front right. (swapped them because i didn't know how long until i was going to be able to get it in for an alignment).

funnily enough, even though i don't work in the tyre industry i know enough about how different alignment settings need to be adjusted and how they affect the way the car drives.

sorry i didn't reply to this earlier. it is fine now after an alignment, doesn't pull either way on different road surfaces.

Reading your comments, I severly doubt you actually do know much about alignment settings. So i'll leave it right there.

bodes-sh · 18-06-2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Reading your comments, I severly doubt you actually do know much about alignment settings. So i'll leave it right there.

right so in that case it seems like you are just like most other "tradespeople" who apparently know everything there is to know about the industry they work in. I don't really care anyway, I don't need to prove anything to anyone, especially on a forum on the internet. I'll just let you sit up on your high horse believing everybody is below you and leave it at that.