Suspension on an AU

Moya · 03-08-2005, 12:20 PM

Hi guys, is it worth doing suspension on an AU Falcon?

I don't want track suspension, but I'm considering giving er a new set of legs. Just couple extra mm on the swaybars, Koni Shocks and King SSL. Most likely have to get her cambered too.

But I wanna know if it's worth it? After doing all this, will she still handle like a 1800KG monster? For my spirited drives. I want a 'racey' feel, but not track. So if I have my girlfriend in the car, shes not getting evultions from the hard bumps.

The things I hate about my handling at the moment are:
1. Shakey Movement
2. Taking a corner, any bump causes the car to bounce around while turning, making corners house
3. 'airyness' at high speed
4. BODYROLL. I swear, taking a roundabout I feel like im falling out the window.

Has anyone actually done the suspension on there AU? Can I get general comments please.

Thanks

Racecraft · 03-08-2005, 12:29 PM

I am 1/2 thru fitting your 'package' to your my AUII.. XR front sway bar, a few nylon bushes here and there, Konis on the front, and King SSL's.. I'll have it all installed by Saturday arvo to comment further.. I know the travel on the shocks is important to the ride quality, although on my EL I have the exact same set-up and of all of the variables the thing that made the car more rigid on the road was upgrading to 18*235*40 series tyres..

xr8 007 · 03-08-2005, 01:02 PM

when changing the shocks to suit lowered springs,,, how would you go about it on an AU XR.. i had a look at the monroe book and it lists the same shocks for the lowered falcons and standard xr's.. does that mean if u have an xr u dont need to change the shocks to suit!!

Casper · 03-08-2005, 01:04 PM

Moya,
If your AU feels like a "1800kg monster" then yes, most certainly get the suspension done. My AUXR6 feels more like a "1200kg nipper" than a monster. Its the most direct and pointable Falcon I have ever driven (thats from the Xy through to the BA with very few exceptions). Thats on 100% factory Tickford suspension too.
The AU is well known for haveing a very balanced ride and excellent "point and shoot" drivability. If it feels like a monster, it needs work.

Casper · 03-08-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6007

when changing the shocks to suit lowered springs,,, how would you go about it on an AU XR.. i had a look at the monroe book and it lists the same shocks for the lowered falcons and standard xr's.. does that mean if u have an xr u dont need to change the shocks to suit!!

you dont need too but the standard shocks will not match up real well with the Kings Superlows as the springs have a different rate than the factory Tickford springs. The stock struts will be very harsh and eventually just give it up and die.

98AUXR6 · 03-08-2005, 01:14 PM

I love the handling on my standard XR6. I would just lower it for aesthetic reasons.

**Mechan1k** · 03-08-2005, 01:47 PM

I'll be lowering mine after i get the kit installed ... I'd love to deck the ute like my previous car ... but i need it for work ... so i can't go extreme on it.

So far my increase in wheel/tyre size to 235/45R17 made a nice difference in handling ... giving it a more surefooted (best way i can explain it) feel on the road.

Eventually I'll get rid of the body roll ... and give more rigidity in the handling as well. Plus I'd like to be a little lower to the ground.

loxxr6 · 03-08-2005, 02:44 PM

I reckon I might need different shocks as the ride is definately rougher since the lowering (king lows).

What shocks have people fitted to their cars ?

**FTE217** · 03-08-2005, 02:46 PM

If your AU is over the magic 100,000k mark the shocks are stooofed !
Majority of shocks are on the decline of working correctly from 70000k's.
Ofcourse she will perform much better with renewed suspension but the mix is all important.
You want handling but still a cushy ride when the g/f is in the car, the perfect comprimise is hard to find.
Most aftermarket coils are up to 25% firmer than standard
Then add Larger sway bars to the firmness
Poly Urethane bushes add again
Then the shocks.

I have run many combinations in my AU, never again am I going to use urethane.
Get the low coils and konis and you will already get 100% improvement in handling.
If you require more then go the sway bars.

LG · 03-08-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Get the low coils and konis and you will already get 100% improvement in handling.
If you require more then go the sway bars.

2nd that... Swaybar, ridiculously makes steering sharper... And only for $150-200 you can't go wrong.

Don't forget camber kit too.

**FTE217** · 03-08-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

I reckon I might need different shocks as the ride is definately rougher since the lowering (king lows).

What shocks have people fitted to their cars ?

Originals
Pedders
Gabriel
Monroe
Koni

What budget are you looking to spend ? Thats the question ?

loxxr6 · 03-08-2005, 02:57 PM

So if you have an XR already what do you ask for at the suspension place ?

What should you upgrade ?

Moya · 03-08-2005, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Moya,
If your AU feels like a "1800kg monster" then yes, most certainly get the suspension done. My AUXR6 feels more like a "1200kg nipper" than a monster. Its the most direct and pointable Falcon I have ever driven (thats from the Xy through to the BA with very few exceptions). Thats on 100% factory Tickford suspension too.
The AU is well known for haveing a very balanced ride and excellent "point and shoot" drivability. If it feels like a monster, it needs work.

Please dont take this the wrong way Caspet, but have you ever driven really light nimple and suspension tuned cars? I'm talking Honda CRX's, Integra Type R's etc. I think it's a big statement saying she rides like a 1200KG nipper, specially on stock suspension.

Being nimple is fine and well, but you still need to accept that these cars weight a good 1700KG+, so they aren't light, and definately went designed to be flung around tracks.

Moya · 03-08-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

If your AU is over the magic 100,000k mark the shocks are stooofed !
Majority of shocks are on the decline of working correctly from 70000k's.
Ofcourse she will perform much better with renewed suspension but the mix is all important.
You want handling but still a cushy ride when the g/f is in the car, the perfect comprimise is hard to find.
Most aftermarket coils are up to 25% firmer than standard
Then add Larger sway bars to the firmness
Poly Urethane bushes add again
Then the shocks.

I have run many combinations in my AU, never again am I going to use urethane.
Get the low coils and konis and you will already get 100% improvement in handling.
If you require more then go the sway bars.

Yeh it is actually. 150K's actually :o

Well, I don't want the ride to be "soft' - I accept it will be hard, and don't mind it riding hard. But, when I do take corners slow, and drive around my parents or my girlfriend (rare) - I don't want it to feel extremely hard. I don't know if this will make sense though

**Mechan1k** · 03-08-2005, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moya

Please dont take this the wrong way Caspet, but have you ever driven really light nimple and suspension tuned cars? I'm talking Honda CRX's, Integra Type R's etc. I think it's a big statement saying she rides like a 1200KG nipper, specially on stock suspension.

Being nimple is fine and well, but you still need to accept that these cars weight a good 1700KG+, so they aren't light, and definately went designed to be flung around tracks.

Agreed ... even with all the money i can throw at suspension in the Falcon ... it will never be a nimble as my last car .. I had a Proton Satria with all Whiteline gear ... plus a bit more.

Yeah it was stiff ... but everything was perfectly controlled.
I enjoyed taking the 25km/h hairpins at close to 100km/h (top of 2nd gear) ... used to be great ... would have loved to have G-meter in the car to see how many Gs I was pulling laterally.

**FTE217** · 03-08-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moya

Yeh it is actually. 150K's actually :o

Well, I don't want the ride to be "soft' - I accept it will be hard, and don't mind it riding hard. But, when I do take corners slow, and drive around my parents or my girlfriend (rare) - I don't want it to feel extremely hard. I don't know if this will make sense though

Ofcourse it makes sense,I want the same.
I do a few cruises with the 3fb guys and its all about handling when going on runs.
I'm running Pedders lowered coils all round with the Comfort Gas range of shocks they sell. Not too hard not too soft.
I went through a National Park run with the guys recently, it handled fantastic ! for me but we all have different tastes.

**FTE217** · 03-08-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loxxr6

So if you have an XR already what do you ask for at the suspension place ?

What should you upgrade ?

I wouldn't ask, all shops will push the products they get the best deal with or who they have formed a relationship.
All the research can be done here, as I said it comes down to budget and how long you intend keeping the car.

Casper · 03-08-2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moya

Please dont take this the wrong way Caspet, but have you ever driven really light nimple and suspension tuned cars? I'm talking Honda CRX's, Integra Type R's etc. I think it's a big statement saying she rides like a 1200KG nipper, specially on stock suspension.

Being nimple is fine and well, but you still need to accept that these cars weight a good 1700KG+, so they aren't light, and definately went designed to be flung around tracks.

Its cool, was just a figure of speech. But yes, I've driven many, many cars of all different sizes. Admittedly some of the sporty little things have stunning handling (and brakes too usually) but many, many of them are absolute shockers. Things like Lancers, Mirages, Corolla's and anything from Gaywoo can be as light as they like, they handle like playdoh.. and lack any power to even attempt to make up for it. I would be more than happy to put my car up against quite a few of these so called "sports compacts" and I can assure you, they arnt getting away, even on some of the real twisty roads like the GOR. whatever tiny amount of handling edge they may have (and many of them simple do not have anything close to an edge) would be gone the moment they come out of the corner.
Things like the CRX, WRX and 3 seriesBMW's certainly have the handling and even the go, but the vast majority of cars sold as "sporty" compacts are anything but.

Moya · 03-08-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casper

Its cool, was just a figure of speech. But yes, I've driven many, many cars of all different sizes. Admittedly some of the sporty little things have stunning handling (and brakes too usually) but many, many of them are absolute shockers. Things like Lancers, Mirages, Corolla's and anything from Gaywoo can be as light as they like, they handle like playdoh.. and lack any power to even attempt to make up for it. I would be more than happy to put my car up against quite a few of these so called "sports compacts" and I can assure you, they arnt getting away, even on some of the real twisty roads like the GOR. whatever tiny amount of handling edge they may have (and many of them simple do not have anything close to an edge) would be gone the moment they come out of the corner.
Things like the CRX, WRX and 3 seriesBMW's certainly have the handling and even the go, but the vast majority of cars sold as "sporty" compacts are anything but.

Cheers mate. Naa I wasn't questioning your experience, rather, just trying to get a more 'real' aspect as to whether it's worth it or not. In other words, try to remove any bias (if any) from your statement

Casper · 03-08-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moya

Cheers mate. Naa I wasn't questions your experience, rather, just trying to get a more 'real' aspect as to whether it's worth it or not. In other words, try to remove any bias from your statement

Not a problem. I was mostly comparing with other Falcons to be honest.
Other thing I have is the AU IRS which, much to a lot of peoples objection, makes a huge difference on the patchwork we call roads. Nearly everyone who has owned an IRS AU find it hard to drive a live axle one again, the difference is that much. Bump steer... doesnt exist.

LG · 03-08-2005, 09:43 PM

If you've got the money, get the konis.

There are two types. "Red" & "Yellow". Both types are adjustable, meaning you can adjust the firmness of the ride to a degree. You cannot adjust the height, just the amount or firmness of how quick/strong the shock expands, after it's been compressed by the bump. Now the "Red" koni shocks, need to be taken off the car to be adjusted, whereas the "Yellow" (Sport), can be adjusted in their position, and is only a matter of turning a knob.

So around town, have it about medium. Track or drags, make it hard. Country/Cruising make it soft. The Rears are easy too adjust, the front's are a bit harder, as there is a bit of stuff in the way. They're just very flexible that's all. 2 Year warranty on Koni's as well.

Otherwise, Pedder's Comfort option sounds good.

Moya · 03-08-2005, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Ofcourse it makes sense,I want the same.
I do a few cruises with the 3fb guys and its all about handling when going on runs.
I'm running Pedders lowered coils all round with the Comfort Gas range of shocks they sell. Not too hard not too soft.
I went through a National Park run with the guys recently, it handled fantastic ! for me but we all have different tastes.

Well, looking at Koni's Website, and more specifically, the two Koni products available to AU Live-Axle Series 2 Falcons, I got a choice of either Koni Specials (soft, nicer handling) and Sports (hard, good handling, no roll).

Sport sounds like what I want. And i'd like to stay with Koni if only for the good comments I've read about there stuff.

Any able to comment specifically on how an AU2 Forte will handle if upgrading with the following:
1. King SSL all round.
2. Whiteline Polyeutherane (sp?) Swaybars +2mm front and rear
3. Koni Sports, front and rear.
4. Camber kit to fix lowering and possible negative camber it couple mm's.

Thanks once again.

Moya · 03-08-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LG

If you've got the money, get the konis.

There are two types. "Red" & "Yellow". Both types are adjustable, meaning you can adjust the firmness of the ride to a degree. You cannot adjust the height, just the amount or firmness of how quick/strong the shock expands, after it's been compressed by the bump. Now the "Red" koni shocks, need to be taken off the car to be adjusted, whereas the "Yellow" (Sport), can be adjusted in their position, and is only a matter of turning a knob.

So around town, have it about medium. Track or drags, make it hard. Country/Cruising make it soft. The Rears are easy too adjust, the front's are a bit harder, as there is a bit of stuff in the way. They're just very flexible that's all. 2 Year warranty on Koni's as well.

Otherwise, Pedder's Comfort option sounds good.

You can't entertain me with a price for the sports (red) per corner?

LG · 03-08-2005, 09:54 PM

I have Koni Sport, with King L, and a Whiteline Swaybar up front, and camber kit. I'll soon be putting a Swaybar in the rear, and replacing the bushes in the rear too. Handling is unbelievable, also due to my 18" wheels and wider and grippier tyres, but i can take round-abouts and corners so much smoother and faster. Banking/Rolling is a thing of the past. I always leave cars behind through corners or round-a-abouts. Smart **** p-platers that try to tail gate me, get left behind.

The thing with SSL, or UL, is that the lower you go, the more bouncier, and harder it will be. Plus if your thinking of a bodykit later, SL would look fine.

Can't tell you per corner, as fronts are more expensive than the rears. But for a set of 4, i was quoted $780 (About $195). Not too bad, when Monroe's are around $80/ea or whatever.

Moya · 03-08-2005, 10:17 PM

I thought the lower you go, the less bouncy it is due to the less travel the shock has?

Also, what size swaybar did you get up front, and what do you plan on getting on the rear?

LG · 03-08-2005, 10:25 PM

I'm pretty sure there is only one part number for the front Whiteline Swaybar, for AUII/III. I think it's 28mm, from memory.

I'm only gonna get my rear done, when i get some spare cash. As the steering is in the front, i've got everything done on the front so far, as that's where i wanted the results.

xr8ute · 04-08-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moya

I thought the lower you go, the less bouncy it is due to the less travel the shock has?

Ride height is really just one way to move the centre of gravity.

The shock absorber "dampens" the bounce of the spring. If there is not enough stroke in the shock absorber (because your car is on its guts), then your suspension will bottom out and your car will become skittish/loose on the road.

MNM96 · 05-08-2005, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LG

2nd that... Swaybar, ridiculously makes steering sharper... And only for $150-200 you can't go wrong.

Don't forget camber kit too.

This man wins a prize! If you want to make an AU handle better, especially with mid corner control, you can't spend better than getting the Caster/ Camber kits done. Extends tyre life also, but you need to rotate tyres fairly often. Mine get rotated front to rear every 5k and swapped on the wheels every 10.