Regular Unleaded banned from July '12

[Simple6]

From SMH -

Unleaded ban expected to cause rise in fuel prices
James Robertson
January 2, 2012
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‘The majors are doing anything they can to stop ethanol' says David Zsynzcak, ethanol producer. Photo: Michele Mossop
NSW drivers could face more petrol price rises this year after the government bans regular unleaded fuel, pushing up demand for ethanol-blended and premium unleaded fuel, the industry has warned.

From July, petrol stations will no longer be permitted to sell regular unleaded petrol, because the government wants to promote renewable biofuels.

To meet demand, the state's only ethanol distiller, Manildra Group, will need to increase its production of ethanol-blended petrol to 300 megalitres by July, up from 250 megalitres last financial year, according to Ecco Consulting, an energy advisory firm.

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''We believe demand will exceed supply,'' Jamie Jardine, a spokesman for BP, said. ''Consumers, particularly in rural areas, will have to pay more.''

Manildra did not return requests for comment.

An Australian Competition and Consumer Commission report on the issue last month warned of a ''significant impact'' on consumers, particularly those forced to pay for the much more expensive premium unleaded petrol if their cars cannot run on ethanol-based petrol, which is the case with all cars made before 1986.

The ACCC also warned of a potential national shortage of premium petrol.

In October, the government required 60 per cent of all fuel be ethanol-based. Current and former state governments had previously delayed the quotas because of concerns about the availability of ethanol fuel.

Mike Cochran, a director at Ecco, expects Manildra can produce enough ethanol petrol to provide for the government's target to be met by July. ''But it's cutting it very fine,'' he said.

Even if ethanol supply falls short, petrol would not be rationed. Under biofuels legislation, the government can give suppliers exemptions that allow them to sell regular petrol.

A spokesman for the Energy Minister, Chris Hartcher, said the government expected industry to meet targets but had granted exemptions in the past and would continue to consider them.

But there are concerns that ethanol-based fuel is becoming more expensive.

The ACCC found ethanol was increasing in price relative to regular unleaded petrol. Last year ethanol was 2.6¢ a litre cheaper; this year the difference fell to 1.7¢. Some motorists argue ethanol is already functionally more expensive because it provides less mileage than regular petrol. The NRMA says ethanol-fuel is between 1 and 3½ per cent less fuel efficient.

David Zsynzcak, of Dalby Biorefinery in Queensland, said his company supplied ethanol-blended fuel for 4¢ a litre less than unleaded petrol at some Sydney petrol stations but others did not pass on the discount. ''Clearly the majors are doing anything they can to stop ethanol,'' he said.

But the industry says consumers might also choose premium petrol in preference to ethanol, which might raise the price of premium fuel.

''Ethanol has proved very unpopular with customers,'' said Paul Zennaro, of Shell, which says it supports ethanol fuel but not through a mandated quota.

I know it's been discussed before and we knew they were going to remove it.

My thoughts are - I wish they'd subsidise it or somehow make it more attractive to people rather than force it upon them! I hate running E10 in my car (BA Fairmont) even though I know its not going to do it any serious damage. It's just I've experienced (as I know plenty of others have) poor economy, poor power & rough idle etc.

Hopefully more companies start selling 95 then I guess!

[Uncle Niceguy]

mmmm for any of our cars to be able to run economically after this would mean an ethanol based fuel system put in and a tune to sort out the usual issues so from my end it wouldn't be too bad

[Jim Goose]

Ethanol is rubbish (at least here in australia).
Increased fuel consumption in all the cars i have used it on.
Not to mention all the cars ran rougher noticably.

[TMC]

We can't even get ethanol blends here in WA. They can't ban straight unleaded with no alternative.

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by TMC

We can't even get ethanol blends here in WA. They can't ban straight unleaded with no alternative.

I've actually noticed a reduction in the availability of E10 in general. I think the refusal from people to accept E10 has meant the oil companies were switching back to a more even mix of E10 & Reg91.

At least when it first came out there was the discount of 4c/L over Reg91 but slowly it's been wittled back to almost nothing! So at least it was cheaper to have your car run like bucket of rubbish.

[Stazza_Brendan]

At the local servos i noticed they got rid of 91oct and replaced it with E10. Now in last few months E10 disappeared and 91 was brought back.

[Road Games]

I filled up at the BP on the corner of Peak Downs hwy and Bruce hwy and it felt weird straight away on 91 oct (factory tune) after re-filling at Gin Gin with Ultimate 98 for the run home it felt like i had tipped rocket fuel in her Brendan !!

[XBROO]

I've always run premium so I'm not too worrried as long as they have 98. But yeah have ran a 98 enthanol blend in my old cruiser and ran like *****.

[Cúl-Báire]

The problem I find with E10 is it quite obviously doesn't meet 91RON; every car I have ever run on E10 runs like **** without exception - and modern cars generally need 95RON minimum.

Flawed policy this is, designed to push petrol prices up and raise further revenues though fuel excise.

[FreddyDUZ747]

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

[csv8]

Shell has replaced E10 in QLD with 95ron. E10 wasn't successful in QLD. Only Independents stock it. Sugar belongs in my coffee not my tank...

[bigdude1011]

I thought 91 octane ULP was already banned in NSW - when I go to Sydney, I can only get E10 from the servos.

I remember reading somewhere that it takes more energy to produce ethanol fuel than the amount of energy that ethanol produces (correct me if I'm wrong).

Bring on hydrogen fuel cells.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

.

Yeah in cars that are set up for e85.


My missus randomly told me her car runs like crap on e10 compared to 91. That's coming from someone who knows nothing about cars or fuel.

[Stazza_Brendan]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

I filled up at the BP on the corner of Peak Downs hwy and Bruce hwy and it felt weird straight away on 91 oct (factory tune) after re-filling at Gin Gin with Ultimate 98 for the run home it felt like i had tipped rocket fuel in her Brendan !!

Was that Ultimate 98 from BP at intersection?
I had my car tuned more conservativly with timing due to mixed quality of fuel here.

[Road Games]

Nah the green handle mate 91 $1.48 from memory ...

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

You'd expect that general consensus on a forum like this.. E85 is horse **** and 98 is rocket fuel, right? The reality is that if an engine isn't tuned for a higher octane fuel (generally performance engines), it's pointless. If the factory says use 91 (many current Aus and Japanese cars, most older ones), then nothing suggests higher octane will be better for the engine.

I think people change their frame of mind in the car when changing fuel too. More should get their mate to fill the car up with one of the three and see if they can really tell the difference... blindly. The notion that 98/95 is 'better', is not correct. It's meant for a purpose, to be used by engines tuned to use it.

[Nikked]

E10 with its high octane rating and lower price

Win win.

91 is no loss, never used it anyway.

[Ford_The_Win]

I hope this doesn't apply to Victoria. I rarely, if ever see E10 at the local pumps.

[BA-XT]

My wife always ran the E10 you get from United in her VT. Had to replace the fuel pump. Mechanic said to stay away from it. Since changing back to 91 it idles smoother and feels better.

When I fill up my BA I add Morleys fuel treatment. I'm getting 11.4L/100km averaged out over a few months.

I won't touch E10. It just doesn't smell right.

[Bucknaked]

Of course the bloke who makes Ethanol is going to have a whinge. Obviously he's not rich enough, the whinger needs to have a sook about it.

[mik]

Originally Posted by FreddyDUZ747

Yet people run e85 daily with no issues.

The bagging of ethanol is getting rather tiresome imo.

I hope 91 is abollished.

it`s probably not tiresome if your one of the unlucky motorists that drives a car that runs poorly with the stuff, i notice mine stumbles on the stuff, that`s aside from the less k`s per tank.

[K10wN]

Oh fun... It's back to 2nd gear and being passed by loaded semis whenever I get to a mountain range again.

Trip was from Ipswich to Toowoomba on E10. Two people in the car, no luggage load. Almost out of fuel too, so no fuel load. It was stuggling to pull up the range in 2nd gear. Needless to say I stopped at the BP in Toowoomba because I had to fuel up for the remainder of the trip. I filled it with BP Ultimate. Within 30km you could feel the difference and no longer needed to change down gears for large hills.
The next day I needed to repeat the Ipswich to Toowoomba drive. This time the car was fully loaded with luggage, six people in the car, 3/4 fuel load (BP Ultimate). The car pulled all the way up the range in 4th gear without any trouble.
Obviously a 7 seat 1994 Pajero Wagon V6 in not designed to run on 98RON fuel, but it's plainly obvious when you get to a steep hill with the heavy lump of underpowered offroader that it runs better on 98RON than 91RON, and it's pathetic on E10.

Next example:
My son's Lancer CE2 coupe 1.5L. There's no noticeable difference between using 98RON, 95RON and 91RON fuel in this tiny engined car, but put E10 in it and you're lucky to be able to keep it at 100km/h down the highway and it drops about 30km/h up a steep hill with your foot on the floor.

Is E10 suitable for either of these cars? Past experience says otherwise.

[Paxton]

Even my lawnmower gets 98 octane of some flavour, so I'm not too concerned.

I do think it's a joke that we are being told that we have to put that corrosive sugar byproduct in our tanks, whether we like it or not. Couple this price rise with the one from the Carbon Tax, and we're going to be hurting at the pump.

(yes, I realise that there is no Bob Brown tax on petrol, but it will rise with everything else, because there are other costs with the tax on them).

[Windsor220]

All thats happening is instead of 91 being the base unleaded its now 95. I havent used 91 in ages and I drive a bunky too.

[Adamz Ghia]

Shell in Geelong sold E10 in place of 91 for a while, it was 4 cents a litre cheaper when it started, by the time they removed it it was only 1.4 cents cheaper. Now they sell regular 91, there was a story in the local paper about the hopeless take up rate for it.

[AU1XLS]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Of course the bloke who makes Ethanol is going to have a whinge. Obviously he's not rich enough, the whinger needs to have a sook about it.

Why United are right into Ethanol
http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/me...y-bio-refinery

[2011G6E]

Good. Then the enviro-nazis might see once and for all the results of thier wishes, that being a massive backlash against them and any other "green" initiative.
If the public saw at the pump the true, un-subsidised price of ethanol blend fuel, they'd never touch a drop of the stuff...which is exactly why the government needs to ban ordinary unleaded, to force consumers to buy it, no matter the cost.

No one has ever, ever explained exactly how it's "better for the environment" to deliberately make your car use more fuel by making us use this rubbish.
Not to mention that ethanol is an "energy negative" fuel...you simply can't get out of it as much energy as it takes to produce, which is why economy suffers. Not to mention that you have to be of such a mindset that you don't really care that valuable food growing areas are being turned over to fuel production areas...a situation that is already in some parts of the world causing food shortages amongst poor countries as they turn thier food land over to growing corn and other crops for ethanol fuel.
You also have to not mind that ordinary fuel is being burned to produce ethanol...it's energy negative so you can't just use ethanol fuel in the vehicles and farm machinery to produce the stuff...you will never catch up and be chasing your tail in a descending spiral of efficiencies.



Then there is the simply staggering number of cars that simply can't even run ethanol fuel of any sorts...and there are some quite new cars on the list. Even my elderly mothers little 1997 Mazda 121 can't run it...it doesn't say "not recommended", it says ethanol blend fuels must not be used in it, full stop.

[barnz_xr8]

man this communist country, it should be our choice what fuel we run, especialy when it is a corrosive alcohol fuel that could possibly damage older non compatable cars.!!

[raptorv8]

2011fg6e maybe needs to research the Australian Ethanol model and realise most of the **** he talks is exactly that ****

[2011G6E]

Really?
So every single person who reports bad running, engine problems,or increased fuel consumption (something the fuel companies themselves warn you to "expect" when using E10) is lying through thier teeth or making it up?
The lists of cars that cannot use ethanol, and which manufacturers warn people not to use it in, are all made up?
It isn't an energy negative fuel that doesn't contain the energy used up in productionof the final product?

Again...how is it better for the environment to make my car use more fuel?

Here's the list by the way...
http://www.fcai.com.au/publications/...-blend-petrol-
Hope ya don't have a Ford Focus made up to 2004...or a Mazda come to that...no Mazda "except this list" (Mazda2 - May 2005 build onwards, Mazda3, Mazda6, RX-8, MX-5 – July 2005 build onwards, Tribute - April 2006 onwards, CX-7, CX-9) can use E10 or even E5...that's an awful lot of motorists left stuck, or who have to startpaying through the nose for premium...
Basically, thier recommendation is that older cars with carbys and steel fuel tanks shouldn't use ethanol fuel blends.