Barra not the only engine on the chopping block?

sleekism · 19-07-2007, 06:14 PM

I have head that three other long serving Ford sixes are also on the chopping block:

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
-Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
-Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6)

What's going on?

King Nothing · 19-07-2007, 06:49 PM

Probably for similar reason the I6 was canned. Ford want to use a global v6 to cut costs

**Fordman1** · 19-07-2007, 06:51 PM

Yep all 6 cylinder engines are being replaced by the Duratec V6's worldwide.

Interceptor · 19-07-2007, 07:10 PM

great...... ford obviously didnt learn anything from the lesson of bringing the american falcon to australia in the early 60's...... something designed for one region WILL NEVER work well in another region that it wasnt designed for

JBomb3000 · 19-07-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have head that three other long serving Ford sixes are also on the chopping block:

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
-Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
-Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6)

What's going on?

Who cares, none of those engines have any relevance to Australia

chich · 19-07-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBomb3000

Who cares, none of those engines have any relevance to Australia

... and exactly why the I6 doesn't have any relevance to the people on Ford's board of management making strategic economic decisions.

LeadFoot81 · 19-07-2007, 07:42 PM

Each Ford divsion will tune their version of the duratec to suit their customer bases needs/desires.

The Duratec was listed as one of the worlds top 10 engines this year, putting it int the company of an Ausdi engine and a couple of 'sigh' bmw straight sixes. None too shabby.

LeadFoot81 · 19-07-2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interceptor

great...... ford obviously didnt learn anything from the lesson of bringing the american falcon to australia in the early 60's...... something designed for one region WILL NEVER work well in another region that it wasnt designed for

The American V8s that found their way into the 60s and 70s Falcons went well in Oz, including your Windsor!

Mark351 · 19-07-2007, 07:49 PM

The engines are fine, it was the suspension/chassis that the yanks got wrong when sending us the Falcon, and import cars still don't have it right because everything is a compromise!

Nikked · 19-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Global engine means global perfomance parts!

Interceptor · 19-07-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inline6

The American V8s that found their way into the 60s and 70s Falcons went well in Oz, including your Windsor!

and how long did it take the windsors and clevelands to start getting parts unique to australia?

LUXO_8 · 19-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikk O'lass

Global engine means global perfomance parts!

exactly!!!

look at the differing amounts of aftermarket parts between windsors and clevelands as an example....

EB Pete · 19-07-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inline6

Each Ford divsion will tune their version of the duratec to suit their customer bases needs/desires.

The Duratec was listed as one of the worlds top 10 engines this year, putting it int the company of an Ausdi engine and a couple of 'sigh' bmw straight sixes. None too shabby.

any info on this Duratec V6?

RIPGMH · 19-07-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inline6

Each Ford divsion will tune their version of the duratec to suit their customer bases needs/desires.

The Duratec was listed as one of the worlds top 10 engines this year, putting it int the company of an Ausdi engine and a couple of 'sigh' bmw straight sixes. None too shabby.

Maybe we could just tune the Tauraus to our needs/desires.

LeadFoot81 · 20-07-2007, 01:49 AM

May be...

Iphido · 20-07-2007, 06:06 AM

Ford is obviously trying to stop the bleed. Key is to reduce complexity and logistics and r&D costs.

Take note of some of those engines. Very unmodern. SOHC or OHV. I think lumping the I6 in with it is a bit harsh, as currently it has more technology than the duratech engine slated to replace it (its just not alloy).

But then again the choice was all alloy I6 in 2010 or go V6. Obviously with the money at ford like it is, they have made the economical choice. Ion having dribbled and exploded, did not help, as they bailed out of the Alloytech casting facility. What a dumb idea, Ion could have been casting all the Six cylinder falcons and commodores engine blocks. Not to mention other components.

merlin · 20-07-2007, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)

This engine stinks anyway.

sleekism · 22-07-2007, 05:14 PM

Apparently the Canadian Essex was a really good V6 was a really good V6 similar to the Ecotec but obviously inferior to Barra.

For that matter apparently the Ecotec V6 was on Wards best engine list and is still in production in America.

Kryton · 22-07-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have head that three other long serving Ford sixes are also on the chopping block:

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
-Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
-Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6)

What's going on?

there is a thing called EMISSIONS. in 2010, there are harsher emission laws coming in that all manufacturers must meet. these engines do not meet these requirements hence they will no longer be. why spend millions of dollars just to get ALL of the engines up to scratch when there is an engine on the way that will meet the requirements.
The Barra is getting canned as well because of the emissions. the main problem is that the time the Barra takes to warm up is too long. a cold engine has bad emissions. this is one of the few things that is stopping this engine from passing the upcoming emissions.

on a more positive side though, turbochargers and superchargers help reduce emissions dramatically as they are recycling what would normally be left tfor exhaust waste.
look forward to a lot more factory turbocharged, supercharged and twin versions of both in the future.

FPV8U · 22-07-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikk O'lass

Global engine means global perfomance parts!

Sure does, if the V6 & V8 (2010) are both global it's going to be good times all round for Falcon owners.

irsa76 · 22-07-2007, 06:18 PM

Economy of scale. It's alot cheaper to build a few variations of the same basic engine for use in multiple platforms, then build a totally different engine for each platform. The other engines mentioned are even older then the Barra so Ford is taking advantage of the emissions to retire these engines.

Steffo · 22-07-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Interceptor

great...... ford obviously didnt learn anything from the lesson of bringing the american falcon to australia in the early 60's...... something designed for one region WILL NEVER work well in another region that it wasnt designed for

This is 2007 not 1960. In the past 47 years technology has advanced somewhat. The engine is a global engine, meaning it is designed to work and be adaptable everywhere.

Fletty's EL · 22-07-2007, 07:00 PM

I love the Inline 6 as much as most of you guys but at 4 Litres it's limited in use to cars with pretty long bonnets.
A V6 will allow Ford Australia to shift things around a little and play with weight distribution. I am going to miss that growl though. This duratec bizo better have a good noise.

Steffo · 22-07-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletty's EL

I love the Inline 6 as much as most of you guys but at 4 Litres it's limited in use to cars with pretty long bonnets.
A V6 will allow Ford Australia to shift things around a little and play with weight distribution. I am going to miss that growl though. This duratec bizo better have a good noise.

Well if you want to hear a twin-turbo one going nuts... look up the Noble M12 GTO. Supercar powered by a 3.0 Duratec V6 Twin Turbo.

phillyc · 22-07-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have head that three other long serving Ford sixes are also on the chopping block:

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
-Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
-Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6)

What's going on?

It's great to see that Ford is waking up and stop bleeding cash. They need to rationalise and put their eggs into the best basket.

Canning the Barra MIGHT cause some pain and I will miss it, BUT it had to be done. The iron block takes too long to heat up, thereby affecting emissions and cold start economy.

The trade is that Ford Aus gets to become the RWD development centre for Ford Worldwide AND keeps Falcon alive until at least 2020 assuming the 2012 model has a 8 year lifecycle.

Hiring Allan Mullaly, ex head of Boeing as CEO and Kuzaks as product development czar is the best thing FoMoCo has done in a long time.

Mullaly awarded $4B worth of contracts to Hawker-DeHavilland which is an Australian firm several years ago as he believed that our engineers (aero or otherwise) get the job done right and at the best price.

Stop being pessimists (yes it's easier), start being optimists.

phillyc · 22-07-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have head that three other long serving Ford sixes are also on the chopping block:

-The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
-Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
-Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6)

What's going on?

The Cologne V6 (2-4L SOHC V6)
All except some racing derivative and later 4.0 litre sohc engines were pushrod overhead valve engines, with a single camshaft between the banks.
Later, the Cologne V6 largely replaced the Essex V6 even for British-market vehicles.
The block is iron.
The highest output is for the 4L SOHC which has:
216 horsepower and 269 ft·lbf of torque at 3000 rpm. (161kW/361Nm)

Ford Essex V6 engine (UK)
Unusually, the Essex V6 was built so that the same block could serve in both Diesel and petrol applications, although the Diesel version never reached production. Traces of its Diesel design lie in the necessity for dished piston heads to reduce the compression, and the very solid construction. The Essex V6 is a heavy engine, weighing significantly more than the Rover V8.

Canadian Essex V6 (3.8-4.2l OHV V6) - 90 degree vee.
One source states that the Essex is instead a copy of the Buick V6 engine [1], done since Ford needed a working V6 much faster than building one from scratch would take (the Cologne V6 couldn't meet fuel economy requirements, and the all-new Vulcan was several years away from production at that point).
The Canadian Essex was a pushrod design featuring aluminum heads, which reduced its weight considerably and made it a very powerful engine for its size.
The Mustang version was updated for 1999 with Teflon-coated pistons, a variable length intake manifold, and a more open cylinder head. These bumped output up by 40 hp (30 kW) to 190 hp (142 kW).

Vulcan V6 (3.0L OHV V6)
The Vulcan was a clean-sheet design using the metric system. The engine block is built by Sherwood Metal Products, the intake comes from Ford's Essex Casting, and the engine is assembled at Ford's Lima Engine plant in Lima, Ohio.
3.0 L SFI Vulcan V6 155 hp (116 kW) 185 ft·lbf (251 N·m) Taurus 2000-2005