MD Diesel Transmission Woes

[Ibaker]

I have been experiencing transmission failures in my 2016 MD Mondeo Diesel Titanium Wagon and are getting sick of taking it to Ford dealers to try and get it fixed without success.

I have just dropped the car off at a Ford dealer again for the 3rd time and I know of other 2016 MD model Mondeos who are experiencing the same issues and not getting any fixes from Ford. My Mondeo has now done 46,000 klms with more than 90% of its use has been freeway driving with the cruise control set at 110 between Melb to Canberra return and Melb to Syd return. In between the trip the car sits parked in the garage for weeks at a time not being used...I live in Melb and work in Canberra and Sydney flying back and forth each week unless like Xmas I will drive due to the time in Melb so it is just a freeway car.

Here is the email I have sent the Ford dealer where the car is again trying to get fixed and note the different klm readouts on each photo showing the frequency of failures and it being ok in between each failure:

Please see attached photos of the transmission warnings I experienced again with this time every 25 to 30klms from Gundagai to Sydney, each time requiring me to pull over and wait 15mins before I can get going again.

Just after each time it happens the tacho would start revving up and down with a feeling that it was kangaroo hopping every time the tacho went back down to 2,000rpm. It was as if the car was trying to get into gear but was not able to connect causing the tacho to rev back up, then back down again, a bit of a clunk and hop of engagement then disengagement and tacho going back up again. Please see the videos at:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr9Z6sksKKw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfXCHgMQ15s

I have received replies from other Mondeo owners who have/are experiencing the same or similar issue, one is currently at the Ford dealer at Tamworth and to date I have not heard of any fix for that one.

This is an ongoing issue and the 3rd time it has tried to be rectified. The vehicle has traveled Syd to Melb with no issue and Melb to Gundagai with no issue before the issue started again. The vehicle only does freeway driving with the cruise control set to 110kmh, there is extremely little local driving as it is just simply parked in the garage between trips...I live in Melb but work in either Canberra or Sydney and in most cases fly back and forth.

One interesting thing which may not be relevant or not but generally I get around 6.2 to 6.4 litres per 100klm however lately and especially when the issue arises I get 5.5 litres per 100klm although the tacho remains at 2,000rpm with the cruise control set, but as I said, it may not be connected at all but still strange.

This being the 3rd attempt to rectify the issue, I am very seriously concerned about the lasting impact/damage done to the transmission that may present itself in years to come when my voice will be ignored leaving me with a huge repair bill plus this whole issue has placed an enormous amount of inconvenience on me when driving the vehicle and now back and forth to dealerships. I am at my wits end, I have had a relationship with Ford for 40 years, and my next step will be to ask for a full refund for the vehicle or a new replacement or a completely new transmission and all associated components after taking the matter to the ACCC.

[rondeo]

Understanding the problem starts with getting the transmission diagnostic trouble code(s). The dealer should have those.

If you are prepared to see for yourself, you can get a bluetooth OBD2 adapter like OBDLink MX for about $150 and use the $5 Forscan app.

Dealing with the Ford dealer system is another matter, others may help there.
Maybe get a second opinion?
You should at least know what the trouble codes are to start with.

[Ibaker]

I have my local Ford dealer in Melbourne and the one in Sydney. The first time the issue happened the Ford dealer in Sydney said they would look into the error codes. Their fix was to install a software update to the transmission which obviously didn't fix the issue. After this first attempt I took the car into my local Ford dealer in Melbourne and they went over it and said they also needed to do a software update but this time to the car's main board which was done. The issue still exists and is getting worse.

[rondeo]

Software updates are usually to improve an existing system, not to 'fix' serious issues like going into limp mode.

I would be asking what the fault was the update was meant to fix,
i.e. what was not working with respect to the the gearbox at the time the error code was logged.


The car is almost certainly not going into limp mode due to a transmission problem
without logging a fault code.


Put it this way:


If the car is going into limp mode without logging a fault code, I'd want my money back so to speak.

[ivorya]

Maybe a transmission flush and service as well.
Never no, something floating around my be causing something to stick, disengage etc.

I'd be asking for another car and leave it with them to rectify.

[rondeo]

I'm wondering what the thermometer symbol means inside the gear ring symbol in the transmission warning?

Could it be overheating?


The owner's manual (page 111) reads:


Transmission Limited
Function See Manual

The transmission has overheated and has limited functionality.
See
Automatic Transmission
(page
?).

[Ibaker]

I also considered the temp symbol so on one of my forced stops I decided to wait for nearly 45mins to see if that had any impact to the interval before the next failure but that made no impact. The car only contained myself and my usual over night bag of clothes so there was no weight. The trip Melb to Syd is an easy freeway drive and in this instance of the failures the outside temp was around 28 degrees and the car stayed on the set 110klm/h by the cruise control, 2,000rpm and did not change gears at any time prior to the failures. After picking the car up from Dominelli's (the Syd Ford dealer) after it's first attempt to fix the problem the car went to Melb with no issues however it just didn't feel the same. Courtney and Patterson, my Melb Ford dealer, and from whom I purchased the car new from, went right over the car on Xmas eve and said it was all fine but needed another software update to the main board. The car did around 100klms local driving before going back to Sydney when the issue began again.


I am now starting to hear about several other MD Mondeos with similar issues

[rondeo]

The only way to know if the transmission is overheating is to have a Ford Mondeo specific code reader such as Forscan plugged in at the time. This will show the actual transmission fluid temp.

It is possible in my experience with MC diesel that a DTC disappears when ignition is switched off.

In that case maybe Ford will help by offering a logger to read fault codes as they happen?

I suppose under warranty one may not wish to interfere ....


Other possible causes of overheating apart from those you have mentioned might be:


Faulty fluid pump, blocked fluid filter, faulty cooler/hoses, clutch/sensor position error, (resulting in slip).


I'm a DIYer so have no special knowledge about this car, just thinking.

[Ibaker]

Heard back from the Ford dealer and they don't know why this issue is happening. They have sent out a request to all Ford dealers for help and Ford Customer Care are also monitoring it. They are going to take the car on a trip for a couple of hours in the hope it happens again and they can experience the issue first hand.

[Cav]

Acceptable quality
The test for acceptable quality is whether a reasonable consumer, fully acquainted with a vehicle’s condition (including any defects) would find it:
• fit for all the purposes for which vehicles of that kind are commonly supplied
• acceptable in appearance and finish
• free from defects
• safe
• durable.

This is the test regardless of the expressed warranty by Ford.

Your car has a major failure.

Major failures
A major failure to comply with the consumer guarantees includes the following:
• a reasonable consumer would not have bought the vehicle if they had known about the full extent of the problem. For example, no reasonable consumer would buy a new vehicle with so many recurring faults that the vehicle has spent more time off the road than on it because several qualified repairers have been unable to solve the problem

When there is a major failure to comply with a consumer guarantee, the consumer can choose to:
• reject the vehicle and choose a repair, refund or an identical replacement (or one of similar type and value if reasonably available) from whoever supplied the vehicle (e.g. the
dealer), or

keep the vehicle and ask for compensation, from the dealer or the manufacturer, for any drop in its value caused by the failure of the vehicle to comply with a consumer guarantee, and compensation for any reasonably foreseeable loss suffered due to the failure of the vehicle to meet the consumer guarantees.

Additional guidance on criteria for determining a major failure
While examination of a vehicle will
likely be required to identify the nature
of a fault, the ACL does not require
an involved process of diagnosis to determine if a vehicle’s failure is ‘major’. You should approach consumer claims for remedies from the perspective of whether a reasonable consumer would have bought the vehicle if they had known of the full nature and extent of the failure at the time of purchase. In particular:
• if a manufacturing defect causes a vehicle to become immobile and not drivable, and this defect cannot be easily repaired with the result that the vehicle is not able to be used within
a reasonable time, this is likely to constitute a major failure to comply with the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality
• where a vehicle experiences multiple minor failures which necessitate multiple or repeated repairs with the result that the vehicle cannot be used by the owner for unreasonable periods of time (e.g. because the vehicle is
not in the owner’s possession), this is likely to constitute a major failure to comply with the consumer guarantee of acceptable quality.

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files...airs-guide.pdf

Consumer law is on your side.

You sought repairs from the dealer, numerous times; yet the problem still persists.

If I was in this situation I would ask to talk to a senior manager at the dealership and mention to him that I intend to seek a remedy under Australian Consumer Law.

Remember it is the consumer's decision whether to seek replacement or refund, not the dealer's

Depending upon the reaction of the dealer, I would then seek out a lawyer for further advice.

I hope this helps

[GTLEGEND]

I am wondering is this a side effect of the vehicle doing a DPF regen? Without knowing what codes the vehicle is throwing, it may also be an internal speed sensor fault or the alike issue in the trans. Bit hard to diagnose from photos and symptoms only.

Good luck I hope they find your concern soon. Keep us updated.

[Ibaker]

The dealer has had the car for 9 days so far and no resolution yet. They say they have been taking it for drives and the issue hasn't resurfaced for them so who knows

[BENT_8]

They all do that..

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Ibaker

The dealer has had the car for 9 days so far and no resolution yet. They say they have been taking it for drives and the issue hasn't resurfaced for them so who knows

What's the bet that they've only been driving it for 5 minutes a day, if at all ...

I would've thought that the images you provided would be enough for them to dig deeper into this issue.

[Ibaker]

Picked the car up from the Ford dealer here in Sydney yesterday without the issue being fixed. They have had it for over 2 weeks, and been driving it around and supposedly a 2hr trip down the coast, and the issue didn't happen. They have advised that Ford are going to give them a better monitoring type of tool that they will fit to the car when they get it and when it happens again I will have to press some buttons to record the issue. No good with me driving Syd - Melb all the time and getting stuck on the freeway again.


Another Mondeo owner who is also having the same issue has also been offered to have the device installed for when the problem happens again for him


BUT what is even more cheeky is when I dropped the car off at the Ford dealer it showed that I had another 350klms of fuel left in the tank...when I picked it up I had to pay them for 20 liters of fuel as they had run it dry trying to find the problem. I am getting to the end of trying to do the right thing

[AlanD]

Hi Ian,

I think we have the same model car. MD titanium Wagon build date September 2016, so I would expect that the gearing would be identical.

Now I can say that our car , at 110kph, shows less than 2000 RPM on the rev counter, but I'm not sure by how much - from memory about 1800 RPM, perhaps a touch higher.

So my suspicion is that your gearbox is not upshifting to sixth gear and staying in fifth gear. Under level highway running I would expect that the car wants the higher gear and when there is no result from an upshift command it flags a (transmission?) problem after a time period. There may be other concerns too based on your description.

Have you tried using the shifter paddles? I note that all the photos you show have the transmission in D and I can't see the cruise control tell tale indicator either active or in standby.

If you haven't I'll suggest that you do. Make your upshifts at about 2500 RPM and when you get to fifth gear check the RPM at 110KPH. If it shows the 2000RPM you have reported and then you try to upshift to sixth gear and nothing happens then the suspicion is that the shift actuator is malfunctioning.

In these gearboxes gears 1, 3 and 5 operate off one of the clutches and 2, 4 and 6 operate off the other. This allows an even number gear to be selected whilst power is transmitted through an odd numbered gear and vice-versa, then changing gear is nothing more than disengaging one clutch whilst engaging the other.

The problem could also be due to the even numbered gear clutch actuator being intermittent. Or a combination - either way a fix, if it's mechanical, means opening up the gearbox.

But it might be faulty software. Do you know if the service centre has cleared the gearbox software and reloaded the latest version?

Oh, at the distance you have travelled, it might be you are not on the original tyres (235/45-R18 rubber), if this suspicion is accurate and you are running something different, then the RPM figures will be different from our car. For example if you happen to be running 235/40-R18 rubber the RPM versus KPH numbers you have quoted would be pretty much correct.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Ibaker]

Thanks Alan
My Mondeo is built around the same time as yours. Now being in aviation I have access to aviation grade GPS equipment and I know that setting the Cruise Control to 115kmh gives me an indicated ground speed (speedo) of 112kmh and a TRUE ground speed of 110 to 111 kmh at which time the tacho sits on exactly 2,000rpm.

Traveling at these figures returns an indicated liters per 100klm of 5.5 between Melb and Sydney which I feel most likely indicates a top 6th gear use. I would very much doubt a 5th gear maximum over some 800klms would present with that level of fuel economy. Prior to this doing Melb - Canberra or Canberra - Melb I would always achieve a 6.3 indicated liters per 100klms and the car didn't play up once doing those trips which accounts for approx 38,000ks of the current 46,000ks

However, I expect to do a Syd - Melb - Syd trip on the weekend of the 16th Feb 2019 so I will give your suggestion a try and see what happens

[AlanD]

Hi all, my memory was not quite up to scratch

I had the car out on the Monash over the last couple of days and at 110kph (actual by GPS) the tachometer shows a shadow less than 2000 RPM, so this agrees with Ian's findings. Any difference is likely due to tyre wear differences and manufacturer.

But I still suspect an actuator problem. If one of the clutches is slipping this will cause heating and when hot enough the transmission will shut down, probably with an overheat code. But it might take quite a time to get to that point - possibly quicker if you are climbing in hilly country.

And a comment re fuel consumption, I'm seeing an instantaneous figure of 5 litres per 100 km on horizontal road in still air - It actually hunts either side of that figure by a small margin. However as I nearly always check economy rates at each fill by calculation, I can say that the on board long term average is quite optimistic. At the fill before last I calculated a figure of 5.8 litres per 100 km and the car was telling me that it had used 5.4 litres per 100 km since the last fill.

Hopefully Ian gets the problem sorted quickly - it must be very frustrating wondering if/when the car will stop working on a long trip.

Cheers

[Ibaker]

Thanks for your figures Alan. I am still planning on coming back home to Melb from Syd this Fri and then back to Syd for work on the Sunday so fingers crossed but I hate this unreliability not knowing if it will happen again...hopefully Ford will have that data reader and install it before Friday

[Ibaker]

Last Friday afternoon/evening I drove back to Melb from Syd and got to about 200klms from Melb and it happened again except this time it nearly killed me. Right behind me and up my rear were 3 big trucks, B doubles, when suddenly my car started kangaroo'ing, the tacho going up to 4000rpm then down to 2,000rpm, a clunk sound then back up and down and kept on like a yo yo etc like in the video in the opening post, the trucks almost ran into the back of me and were lucky they could swerve into the other lane or else I was a goner. At the time there wasn't any way I could pull over then suddenly there was a spot so off the road I went and was able to keep it straight and pull it up ok.

I won't drive it now as all my driving is freeway Melb to Syd and back. I left it at home in Melb this time and had to catch a flight up to Syd which was high price because of last minute and I am now in Syd with no car.

The car is dangerous and 2 ford dealers have tried a total of 3 times to fix it but they don't know what is wrong with it.

I went into the Ford dealer I purchased it from in Melb and formally requested a new replacement car of the same i.e. a Mondeo Titanium Diesel Wagon. I showed them the video of it all again and even this time the video with the trucks. They filled out the paperwork for a buy back and took the Ford Customer Care reference number from 1.5 months ago when I reported it after the 2nd time.

The next step will be a call to ACCC pending what happens now...anyone care to guess

[Ibaker]

Here are 2 more videos from last Friday
https://youtu.be/bAj2WgRSGqs
https://youtu.be/_6s_n3nFguY

[whitelion65]

Ian,

I'm not sure that I'm the only one thinking this...
You freely admit your car is behaving dangerously, you admit the situation is exacerbated by the fact you are surrounded by trucks...yet you take the time, attention, and 1 hand away to film the problem.
Now don't go having a go at me, I've seen other instances on forums where a post has lead to charges.
I feel for you man, but don't let your problem suddenly become spread over the motorway.
And Ford, fix this man's trans. problems...PLEASE!

[Ibaker]

Originally Posted by whitelion65

Ian,

I'm not sure that I'm the only one thinking this...
You freely admit your car is behaving dangerously, you admit the situation is exacerbated by the fact you are surrounded by trucks...yet you take the time, attention, and 1 hand away to film the problem.
Now don't go having a go at me, I've seen other instances on forums where a post has lead to charges.
I feel for you man, but don't let your problem suddenly become spread over the motorway.
And Ford, fix this man's trans. problems...PLEASE!

Thanks mate, I truly understand where you are coming from. I agree it is dangerous however they won't believe me unless I give them absolute proof. They have tried to find the problem by driving the car around themselves but the problem didn't eventuate for them so ????? I also offered to take one of their mechanics on a free trip to either Melb or Syd with me at any time but they said no. It has become very frustrating and Ford are not being helpful to the dealers and the dealers are blaming Ford...and I am stuck in the middle with an unusable car. Yes I did video on the last trip twice to yet again prove to them that their last attempt to fix it didn't work however it happened about 8 times. They have no choice now BUT to believe me and meanwhile I am stuck without a car and paying airlines to move me around instead of a car that I paid over $50k for.


I have passed the issue on to my local Ford dealer from whom I purchased the car from and are waiting...............

[ivorya]

Good Luck mate!
Maybe also time to get in touch with the ACCC. They may be able to push a little harder for you.... once they see the videos!!

[Ibaker]

It has now been over 2 weeks since I formally requested, through my local Ford dealer, a replacement vehicle from Ford and have had deafening silence. I have been calling the Ford customer care rep handling my case and can only leave messages and I have not been receiving any return calls. One time about a 6 weeks ago I left a message and received a call back 2 weeks later.

The dealer only advises that when they get advised then they will contact me

Got off the phone just now from ACCC who have now advised that the next step is for me to contact Consumer Affairs.

The royal run around mean while I have a very dangerous $50,000 car sitting in the driveway collecting dust and I am having to fly everywhere at a great cost. I could sell my Mondeo but that would only pass the problem on to some other unsuspecting innocent person and I am not the kind of person to do that so I am stuck

Anyone thinking of buying a Mondeo...don't risk it

If something changes for the better I will let you know

[sus_038]

Hi Ian - I have just read this, it sounds like a terrible time.

I used to have a 2010 mk6 Golf TSI with the dry clutch DSG 7 Speed, it had similar issues due to overheating (given it was dry not wet clutch) mainly on take off, not while driving. Might have something to do with this too?

Also, isn't there a Ford ACCC Case about the Powershift gearboxes? Could also affect the Mondeo too?

I currently have a 2016 Subie Levorg GTS, and we are looking at an MD Titanium Mondeo... But have only driven the Petrol Ecoboost. They run a traditional torque converter auto, not the powershift...

But I think I will do more research into the whole Mondeo... What is the car like besides the gearbox? Many issues?

I really hope this gets sorted soon!

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by sus_038

Also, isn't there a Ford ACCC Case about the Powershift gearboxes? Could also affect the Mondeo too?

The diesel Mondeo runs a different gearbox to the dry clutch Powershift that has allegedly been causing many issues. The diesel Mondeo runs a wet-clutch dual clutch set-up.

I don't know why in the OP's case, Ford didn't replace the entire gearbox already.

I currently have a 2016 Subie Levorg GTS, and we are looking at an MD Titanium Mondeo... But have only driven the Petrol Ecoboost. They run a traditional torque converter auto, not the powershift...

Yes, torque converter auto on the petrol models. I've done 42,000kms with mine and there hasn't been any major issues to speak of, just a minor, occasional 'jerk' at idle that's been unexplained so far. Hope they can get that sorted at the next service.

[Ibaker]

After many many phone calls yesterday to the Ford dealer and to Ford themselves late yesterday I receive an email from Ford.

Now remember that 2 Ford dealers have tried to fix my car 3 times but are unable to even ascertain what is causing the tranmission failure. The last time the Ford dealer had the car for 2 weeks and were still unable to find what is causing the problem. The other Titanium Diesel MD Mondeo (a hatch) in Tamworth is also in the same boat as their dealer has been unable to ascertain what is causing the transmission failure. So 3 Ford Dealers don't know how to fix it and many weeks of time and inconvenience has been spent trying to resolve this, as I experienced, very very dangerous problem.

The letter from Ford states:
"Ford does not believe there is a major failure or failure to repair within a reasonable time or failure which cannot be remedied. This decision does not prevent you from seeking recourse under the ACL by commencing legal proceedings"

So there you have it...exactly where Ford stands in supporting their loyal customers...perhaps my wife may have got a difference response if I had have been killed on the Hume Freeway a few weeks ago because of it.

Up until now I have tried to do the right thing by Ford under the banner of common decency by declining their offer for a hire vehicle. It just would have been an extra cost to them whilst my car was being fixed but not now. My car is being towed to my Ford dealer this morning where they can do all they like to it to try and fix it even though they have tried before (plus 2 other dealers being unable to fix it) and through Ford Customer Despair I have taken up a Hertz rental car from them and will be driving that back and forth interstate.

I was about to buy a Mustang for the wife and my 21 year old daughter a few weeks ago took the EcoSport for a test drive to buy but looks like the Stinger is now a better option than Ford and I have told my daughter to stay away from Ford...perhaps the MG might be better

In marketing you can spend 90c in every dollar to get a new customer...or only 10c in every dollar to make an existing customer happy who in turn gets you 2 more customers for free...

[Mondaveo]

Sorry to hear you've been knocked back on this occasion. Unfortunately, based on what I've seen and experienced, their response isn't all that surprising to me. I think even when they got nailed in the courts by the ACCC (which was about them misleading consumers about their rights under ACL), they never acknowledged the Powershift problems constituted a dangerous or major failure, did they?

To be fair, if you've enjoyed (I assume) 2-3 years of ownership, then 1-2 months of trouble strictly as a proportion probably doesn't fail the "reasonable" test, frustrating though it is. In my experience, they take a very white-and-black approach to this kind of thing, and an attitude that they don't owe the customer anything. I don't know why they have to be this way, when as you say if they'd just get behind the customer when you need the help, it would go such a long way to fostering repeat custom and goodwill. I myself have had my sour experience like you, and like you when it comes to the next car for me or family members I won't be shopping the blue oval, their loss.

Now IANAL and maybe it hasn't been an unreasonable amount of time yet, but as Cav posted earlier, Australian Consumer Law is on your side. The longer they take to (not) fix the problem from here then the stronger a case you'd have if you were to commence a legal proceeding (as they so generously invite you to) so I'm certain you'll be able to get a favourable outcome in the end, but it's a disgrace they'll make you pull teeth to get there.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

[Cav]

I think it is lawyer time.

Under ACL you are also able to claim costs incurred as a result of car failure, so start documenting all those flights and other costs incurred when things went wrong.