Army Night Flying - Sydney 07-03-2019

[Citroënbender]

Sitting here while large army helicopters (up to five, think Blackhawks) come over so low it literally rattles the window glass, you hear the rotor tips slicing the air, trees wave in the draught and the smell of aviation fuel hangs heavy. Animals are too terrified to bark, even my super laid-back cat is hiding. I don't know how these repeated - unwarned - assaults would go for people with low threshold for stressors.

I understand the idea that they need practice in all conditions, but flying the same route over and over? It's sending a few drivers a bit crazy, too.

[fordomatic]

Glorious sound and smell isn't it, love it.

This is straight from the Army website, pretty easy to find

NOISE ALERT || Australian Defence Force personnel will conduct training across Sydney, Newcastle, Bega, Canberra, Mudgee,Wollongong over the next two months.

Members will be training both during the day and night. Residents may see or hear low flying military aircraft during the training activities, particularly around the Holsworthy area.

These activities are part of the regular training program and residents should not be concerned if they hear or see these activities occurring.

Local police and other authorities are aware of this training.
The purpose of these training activities is to provide personnel with realistic training environments and scenarios in built-up areas.

Training such as this is conducted to ensure that the ADF has the highest level of capability to protect Australia’s national interests and provide assistance in times of civil emergency.

We thank you in advance for your patience and cooperation while this essential training is being conducted.

If you have any issues or concerns please comment below.

Please share this with anyone you know in these areas.

[Citroënbender]

I did find that after it started, the first places I looked were Google Maps and Snarl for where the huge accident was.

[XByoot]

Look on the bright side, I’d be happy to swap for the bogans on Harley’s with straight through pipes near my place. How Long is the exercise on for?

[Ben73]

I used to live near a huge hospital, helicopters don't even wake you after a couple of months. Well apart from when they are so low things in the room are vibrating, not just the windows.

[ford71V8]

We were directly under similar activity here a few years back.....was amazing.
One with a single red light and the other one unlit close together but so low you could still see passengers and detail.
Whatever they were doing, it went on for a bit

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I used to live near a huge hospital, helicopters don't even wake you after a couple of months. Well apart from when they are so low things in the room are vibrating, not just the windows.

Comparing the Blackhawks at treetop height to the medical rescue helicopters is like our man’s aforementioned straight-piped Harleys, vs postie bikes.

I remain baffled by the “need” to fly exactly the same path so many times if it was for general training (if it were planned thus, targeted letterbox drops would have been practical/effective). My New Australian neighbours, who work all sorts of strange hours cleaning just to get a toehold in the place, were walking their dog back and forth on the footpath for a good hour after it all died down, simply to calm the poor bugger - it was too intense for anything like a Thundercoat to work. Their English isn’t good enough to research or understand the website mentioned earlier, and they are fearful of engaging with authorities.

[hawkgirl]

Im not sure where you are, but i live directly under a flight path for Richmond raaf base.
Big deal.
They are so low here somedays i can see what type of aviator sunnies the pilots are wearing. At night, usually midnight, 5 come past at what sounds like 2 inches from my roof,do 3 laps like that and disappear. Thats not to mention nighttime touch and gos with large planes, and daytime training.
Id rather have my defence force trained and prepared for bad guys, thanks.
And my dog doesnt like thunder or fireworks, but cbf about the helicopters.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by hawkgirl

Im not sure where you are, but i live directly under a flight path for Richmond raaf base.
Big deal.
They are so low here somedays i can see what type of aviator sunnies the pilots are wearing. At night, usually midnight, 5 come past at what sounds like 2 inches from my roof,do 3 laps like that and disappear. Thats not to mention nighttime touch and gos with large planes, and daytime training.
Id rather have my defence force trained and prepared for bad guys, thanks.
And my dog doesnt like thunder or fireworks, but cbf about the helicopters.

I was at the auto electricians a few years back at the end of said runway ... the Globemasters are epic on the noise scale at full noise on take-off.

They knew it was coming ... and all wandered outside .,.. I was curious and followed. The barrage of noise was shocking but awesome all at the same time.

[Cav]

So what is the point of this thread?

A bloke who says he hates Sydney complains about defence force training exercises?

Flying at night is extremely dangerous.

There was a horrendous accident near Townsville in 1996 where 6 Blackhawk helicopters crashed killing 16 service people.



The way to prevent such things happening again is to minimise risk and introduce better training for pilots, crews and soldiers.

So why are they doing such dangerous stuff in Sydney instead of in the bush?

Well where is the threat?

Terrorism, in areas of high populations. Places like Sydney perhaps.

Imagine if there is a terrorist plot in the street over from yours, who ya gonna call?

Well not the RAAF, you don't like the noise and disruption to your animals.

FMD!

This is a forum for people who like Fords.

Why am I reading such drivel on hear?

[Bossxr8]

They did the same thing a few years ago over my place. During the day. Directly over the house and so low you could see the soldiers in the back of the blackhawks. Was pretty cool.

[Dave1966]

Originally Posted by Cav

So what is the point of this thread?

A bloke who says he hates Sydney complains about defence force training exercises?

Flying at night is extremely dangerous.

There was a horrendous accident near Townsville in 1996 where 6 Blackhawk helicopters crashed killing 16 service people.

image

The way to prevent such things happening again is to minimise risk and introduce better training for pilots, crews and soldiers.

So why are they doing such dangerous stuff in Sydney instead of in the bush?

Well where is the threat?

Terrorism, in areas of high populations. Places like Sydney perhaps.

Imagine if there is a terrorist plot in the street over from yours, who ya gonna call?

Well not the RAAF, you don't like the noise and disruption to your animals.

FMD!e

This is a forum for people who like Fords.

Why am I reading such drivel on hear?

Well we didn’t see any Blackhawks mowing down bad guys in Bourke street mall at zot feet in recent events. I think you’ll find the police are the front line in these situations, oh and a homeless dude with a shopping cart. Didn’t see too many black hawks at the Lindt siege in Martin Place either.


Come to think of it you don’t see many Blackhawks over Vaucluse or other effluent suburbs either. Strange that, mustn’t be any bad guys there? Well except for the Ibrahim’s but they are just misunderstood.


Im certainly not knocking the military either by the way, they do fantastic work and training is of course essential, perhaps just a little more communication with those impacted might help out in these situations. People get a chance to get the dogs in, be prepared for what’s happening and not scare the crap out of the elderly. Personally I’d be out watching! It would be a great view I’m sure! I recall watching them do manouveres in a Townsville years ago in the city, impressive

[roKWiz]

I love watching this stuff.
Have a permit to mountain bike in the Newcastle "Hunter water catchment area" which includes the back of Williamtown RAAF base and bombing range at Salt Ash. Geeze its get exciting watching the touch and go.

Funny story was 3 of us once stopped a FA18 laser bombing session as we were heading to Lemon Tree Passage on the trails, where we saw the red flags flying at the sentry box. The guy said if you want to keep going we will stop for 10 mins until you get to the other sentry then we will recommence. Heard him talking to the control and planes that he had 3 MTBikers heading through and to circle out to sea.
We got to the other sentry guy where a few mins later they started coming back in.
We never laughed so much on a ride and thought wow this could only happen in Oz.

[Citroënbender]

That’s brilliant.

[lra]

For all you warriors , sorry worriers, out there complaining about noise, and frightening experiences …….. do these aircraft have Australian markings on them ?
If not … run and hide.
If so ….. that is the sights and sounds of freedom. Better still, sign up on the dotted line and join them.

[Syndrome]

Next time they pass overhead, load this song

[Citroënbender]

I always have that in my head when I see the postal bike novices exiting HART en masse, on Mona Vale Rd.

Dave's on the money IMO; had I advance notice I may well have worded up both my streetfront neighbours, locked the cat inside and taken my PTSD-affected, dementia-addled father (mental age approx. six-seven) out for the evening. (He's a full-time job without needing to be stirred up.)

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I always have that in my head when I see the postal bike novices exiting HART en masse, on Mona Vale Rd.

Dave's on the money IMO; had I advance notice I may well have worded up both my streetfront neighbours, locked the cat inside and taken my PTSD-affected, dementia-addled father (mental age approx. six-seven) out for the evening. (He's a full-time job without needing to be stirred up.)

Serious question, how do you expect to be notified?

[Tonz]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Serious question, how do you expect to be notified?

Cluster bombs, big fat red fire blazing cluster bombs , then media saying it was anti terrorism practice.

[MITCHAY]

I'd love it if Blackhawks flew over my house. Usually it's Southcare or fire or cops on at least a weekly basis. Never woke me.

I remember the FA/18s flying real low over my mums house every ANZAC day and for 2015 ANZAC day there were a few of them escorting a Hercules or Globemaster, I can't remember but they were in a holding pattern over and it was awesome.

They need to practice and like Cav said no one is going to bother with anything but a major city.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Serious question, how do you expect to be notified?

Letterbox drops or local free newspaper?

[BPXR6T]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I'd love it if Blackhawks flew over my house. Usually it's Southcare or fire or cops on at least a weekly basis. Never woke me.

I remember the FA/18s flying real low over my mums house every ANZAC day and for 2015 ANZAC day there were a few of them escorting a Hercules or Globemaster, I can't remember but they were in a holding pattern over and it was awesome.

They need to practice and like Cav said no one is going to bother with anything but a major city.

I remember this. I was living in Florey at the time and was outside watching. What an awesome show. I also remember another time heading to some random meeting at parliament, I was in Weston Creek and six hornets in formation flew low overhead. Very cool stuff.

[MITCHAY]

I remember driving down the main drag in Townsville on my way to the airport to go home and hearing this huge sound but couldn't see anything and next thing you know a C17 just dipped low in front. ****en huge plane

[snap0964]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I love watching this stuff. Have a permit to mountain bike in the Newcastle "Hunter water catchment area" which includes the back of Williamtown RAAF base and bombing range at Salt Ash.

Don't go drinking the water - the AFFF show is gaining momentum.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by hawkgirl

Im not sure where you are, but i live directly under a flight path for Richmond raaf base.
Big deal.
They are so low here somedays i can see what type of aviator sunnies the pilots are wearing. At night, usually midnight, 5 come past at what sounds like 2 inches from my roof,do 3 laps like that and disappear. Thats not to mention nighttime touch and gos with large planes, and daytime training.
Id rather have my defence force trained and prepared for bad guys, thanks.
And my dog doesnt like thunder or fireworks, but cbf about the helicopters.

Same here I used to live in Richmond and on Francis st for a period if you looked up the sky tube while you were on the sunny you could wave to the pilotes

People can moan all they like but like you I’d rather a trained defence force than one that has to get approval from cat owners before they get their hours up

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

I remember this. I was living in Florey at the time and was outside watching. What an awesome show. I also remember another time heading to some random meeting at parliament, I was in Weston Creek and six hornets in formation flew low overhead. Very cool stuff.

They also did a similar thing on remembrance day in Canberra straight over Mt Ainslie, the war memorial and down following Anzac Parade.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Comparing the Blackhawks at treetop height to the medical rescue helicopters is like our man’s aforementioned straight-piped Harleys, vs postie bikes.

I remain baffled by the “need” to fly exactly the same path so many times if it was for general training (if it were planned thus, targeted letterbox drops would have been practical/effective). My New Australian neighbours, who work all sorts of strange hours cleaning just to get a toehold in the place, were walking their dog back and forth on the footpath for a good hour after it all died down, simply to calm the poor bugger - it was too intense for anything like a Thundercoat to work. Their English isn’t good enough to research or understand the website mentioned earlier, and they are fearful of engaging with authorities.

You could plaster it on every telegraph pole, take out full page adds in national and local papers, advertise on social media, have tv and radio adds on all stations and do a massive email spam campaign, and people would still bitch and moan that they knew nothing about it and hadn’t been told (happens all the time when the RFS / CFA conduct hazard reductions)

The thing about flying the same route is they are probably running some sort of drill, and the thing with drills is they are repetitive

[Citroënbender]

It's my nature to strive for a considerate approach. I'm the tradesman who generally advises neighbours of upcoming noise/dust/disruption and this is usually met with appreciation; people do vary their plans if they see a conflict - or they might come back with a fair request which I'll take to my employer to seek compromise.

The area over which these helicopters repeatedly flew, was clearly a "sensible choice" for novice pilots. It offers proximity to major features (ie, for observation whilst flying) without the risk of a crash affecting them. It's also an area with comparatively low value in economic terms; if you carpet bombed it the economy would barely flutter - expendable in the sense of a worst-case crash or collision scenario and accessible to emergency personnel. I accept that without any feeling of offence; it's fair cop. There are other parts of Sydney which might be similarly good practice but the risk of someone having a pop at them is probably much greater!

I did chuckle at the suggestion of flying similarly over the Eastern suburbs, nine passes at 150m without warning, exactly over Frank Lowy's house? I can't see it happening, a call would be made after the second or third time...

There are two local papers delivered weekly around my way, one a Murdoch rag and the other an indie which would have been sufficiently excited about this event, to put an advance notice on the front page and likely flesh it out with a backstory and photos. I do skim both these journals as I consider it my responsibility to remain informed - it's where there is notice of road/traffic changes, major demolitions, civic events and other things which are part of our urban mesh.

[lra]

Novice pilots ??? Really ??
As somebody who worked in close proximity to military aircraft for 20 years, and have lived within easy seeing and hearing distance of where roKWiz goes bike riding, for the past 30 years, I am finding this NIMBY 'objection' unbelievably amusing.
If world relations really go to s*** during the next few years, and we get invaded by Russia/ China/ Indonesia/ New Zealand, how much notice is required regarding dates and targets and for environmental impact studies is required.
What happened in Pearl Harbour and Darwin in 1942 ?

[roKWiz]

[quote] There are other parts of Sydney which might be similarly good practice but the risk of someone having a pop at them is probably much greater!
I did chuckle at the suggestion of flying similarly over the Eastern suburbs, nine passes at 150m without warning, exactly over Frank Lowy's house? I can't see it happening, a call would be made after the second or third time... [quote]




Funny you mention this as I've notice the increased use of helicopters instead of cranes around waterfront properties in the Mosman, Castlecrag area when I've been working close by.
Observed one across the bay doing heavy lift work on and off all day. I would imagine they gave all concerned plenty of notice.