Return of the 351...could it be???

[SM1DY]

2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 details emerge

http://www.stangnet.com/2011/03/15/2...ils/#more-4140

Well, we all know that Ford is not one to stop within the R&D and product promotion arenas, so it’s no surprise the ground pounding photographers are catching glimpses of the forthcoming 2013 Shelby GT500. What’s most exciting is the GT500 could prospectively pump out well over 600 horsepower. Carroll, do we need a name change on aisle 5? Perhaps…

Many sources are pointing to the fact the trusty supercharged 5.4-liter V8 will be bolstered to 5.8-liters (whoa, 351!) and the Eaton M112 will make its curtain call, leaving room for the next-gen TVS unit while providing more power, less noise, and more efficiency overall.

Ford’s not really playing with matches here; rather, a blow torch. The current release found in the 2012 Shelby GT500 pumps out an incredible 550hp, shreds to 60 in 4 seconds flat, and easily floats in the low 12s when stripping the 1320.

Along with the changes to the power plant, Ford is also seeking to update the body styling to become more modern-esque by kicking some of the retro throwbacks and gravitating toward tech. LED lighting, interior updates, and a new suspension on the live rear axle are just a few hot improvements upon this year’s tech found on the Shelby GT500.

So, with a price tag rumored to be around $60K and some marked improvements, will you put your name on the list for one?

Could a 351 V8 once again live under the hood of a Falcon? If so, it may be the perfect send off for this Aussie icon before it is (likely) replaced by a foreign invader.

Makes for a good read, and it's fun to speculate

[HULK EF]

didnt that 5.4 engine get killed off due to not being able to meet emmisions on a decent budget?

Having invested in 40 million in the new 5.0 litre i couldnt see them going back to the old engine..

[kinksta]

I don't see why they don't just twin supercharge the 5.0 to get the 351kw easily.....makes sense to me ;)

[blownv8au]

why? In the last streetfords mag they had stock 335 gt's putting out nearly that at the wheels.

[FPV GTHO]

I'm taking this and all the other articles reporting the news with a grain of salt at the moment. Heres why:

1. One article is reporting the extra displacement will come from boring the 5.4 as opposed to further stroking. I can see this as feasible given the 5L cammer engines having an increased bore, but i'd question if the subsequent weaker cylinder walls would be adequate for the increased forces from the higher power motor.

2. They're reporting this for the 2013 model year, which will be on sale 1-2 years before the heavily updated 50th anniversary model. They're saying though this will lose some of the retro themes as well as some other changes. Have they gotten confused with what tech could possibly go into the 50th anniversary model or are they expecting the current MY10 based model to be sent off with a bang?

3. This article makes that throw away line about changing the name of the GT500. Are they serious, or just trying to make a joke?

4. 400cc and a more efficient supercharger will no doubt produce the extra power, but is it really needed? Could the new supercharger not produce the extra alone? Is the current package unable to pass durability tests at a higher rating?

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by kinksta

I don't see why they don't just twin supercharge the 5.0 to get the 351kw easily.....makes sense to me ;)

1. The 5.0 doesn't need to be supercharged to get 351kw.
2. 351kw has nothing to do with 351 cubic inches (or the original 351 V8), you may as well be saying the Hyundai Sonata 4 cyl engine has 351 parts, therefore it is a 351... I mean come on, who cares if it's not a real 351?

The engine that Ford builds today that is closest to the 351, is the new 6.2. It shares the same bore, and has a little bit longer stroke. Though I don't think would be the best way to go. Personally, I think Ford should just add direct injection and twin turbos to the 5.0, and call it a day.

[kinksta]

I said 351kw because those are the numbers we hear here in Australia more commonly.

My post wasn't too serious, I mean really, a twin superchager in a stock car? Interesting.

[SM1DY]

It would mean more to the purist if the 351 badge returned and was in relation to the 5.8L displacement, having this number represent power rather than displacement is just a show trick. I'm letting my mind run wild with the possibilities of a N/A version of the 351 returning, it's just more fun that way.

[XD 351 Ute]

+ 1 for the cubes......

Ed

[Buntz]

Yeah... cubes are better. Is this an increase in displacement of the all alloy 5.4?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by chevypower

1. The 5.0 doesn't need to be supercharged to get 351kw.
2. 351kw has nothing to do with 351 cubic inches (or the original 351 V8), you may as well be saying the Hyundai Sonata 4 cyl engine has 351 parts, therefore it is a 351... I mean come on, who cares if it's not a real 351?

The engine that Ford builds today that is closest to the 351, is the new 6.2. It shares the same bore, and has a little bit longer stroke. Though I don't think would be the best way to go. Personally, I think Ford should just add direct injection and twin turbos to the 5.0, and call it a day.

The closest thing Ford Australia currently builds to a 351 Cleverland is the N/A I6, everything else is FAR more powerful.......

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by kinksta

I said 351kw because those are the numbers we hear here in Australia more commonly.

My post wasn't too serious, I mean really, a twin superchager in a stock car? Interesting.

351ci not KW......its displacement not power over here maybe I'm showing my age

EDIT: I wish my 351's (5.8l) had 351 kw too!

[Bossxr8]

Won't the 5.4 go out of production soon?

I know the iron block truck 5.4's have already, so why would Ford bother increasing the capacity of a soon to be dead engine.

The GT500 will get a Coyote derived engine at some point surely, supercharged most likely. It will have too, they won't continue with the 5.4 forever, especially with the 5.0 and 6.2 already in production and a generation newer.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

2013 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 details emerge

http://www.stangnet.com/2011/03/15/2...ils/#more-4140



Could a 351 V8 once again live under the hood of a Falcon? If so, it may be the perfect send off for this Aussie icon before it is (likely) replaced by a foreign invader.

Makes for a good read, and it's fun to speculate

FPV already ditched the 5.4, why would they re-fit another version of it now?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The GT500 will get a Coyote derived engine at some point surely, supercharged most likely. It will have too, they won't continue with the 5.4 forever, especially with the 5.0 and 6.2 already in production and a generation newer.

Definitely the 5.0L. It's the best car purposed V8 in production. The 6.2 is a less desirable SOHC per bank with 2 valves per cylinder.

Im not sure if they've reached the limit of natural aspiration from it already as the compression ratio's are pretty high. But that's for running on American coconut water as oppopsed to our rooty fruity jungle juice.

My best guess would be bigger heads... increased bore and stroke. Failing that. EcoBoost that thing with two turbo's. That's a sure way to increase horsepower.

[kinksta]

Originally Posted by RAREV8

351ci not KW......its displacement not power over here maybe I'm showing my age

EDIT: I wish my 351's (5.8l) had 351 kw too!

I know the original 351 was ci, but in this day and age I think it would be in kw. That is what I meant.

[XD 351 Ute]

Originally Posted by flappist

The closest thing Ford Australia currently builds to a 351 Cleverland is the N/A I6, everything else is FAR more powerful.......

Heh, that may be true, but just imagine what the Clevo would be doing these days if they threw cams and fuel injection at it? And a couple of turbos......

Ed

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

FPV already ditched the 5.4, why would they re-fit another version of it now?

Who said anything about FPV??? That would be absurb given the potential that Miami has, any attempt to incorporate and S/C 351 into the line-up would just be overkill, it may even result in this being a off the shelf crate engine. And as people have mentioned, the death of the Falcon could mean the life of the Mustang in Australia, along with its GT500 cousin.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

Who said anything about FPV??? That would be absurb given the potential that Miami has, any attempt to incorporate and S/C 351 into the line-up would just be overkill, it may even result in this being a off the shelf crate engine. And as people have mentioned, the death of the Falcon could mean the life of the Mustang in Australia, along with its GT500 cousin.

In a country that likes it's muscle and performance cars to have some practicality. i.e. Four Doors.

[mrghia]

i thought the new 5l had a 5.8l version as well?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by mrghia

i thought the new 5l had a 5.8l version as well?

Nah that was just a rumour. It had several power levels though.

The big deal (IMO) will be a direct injection Coyote in the coming years if it is feasible...

[mrghia]

fair enough. What about the twin turbo version apparently getting designed

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

1. One article is reporting the extra displacement will come from boring the 5.4 as opposed to further stroking. I can see this as feasible given the 5L cammer engines having an increased bore, but i'd question if the subsequent weaker cylinder walls would be adequate for the increased forces from the higher power motor..........

The Honsel PTWA process means that there is no cast iron sleeve present in the block. As a result the rate of heat transfer is much better and subsequently the alloy wall can be made much thicker than traditional sleeved alloy blocks have been. GTWS blocks have 0.172" thickness at the thinnest point where the PTWA block in 2012 GT500's is 0.320" at the thinnest point... if you take 0.074" off that { (3.700"-3.552")/2 = 0.074" ** you still end up with a wall that is roughly 0.250" thick...... still more than the 0.172" that the GT/GTWS block has.

I am confident that a 3.700" bore GT500 is not only feasable, but probable.

Originally Posted by chevypower

.........The engine that Ford builds today that is closest to the 351, is the new 6.2. It shares the same bore, and has a little bit longer stroke. Though I don't think would be the best way to go. Personally, I think Ford should just add direct injection and twin turbos to the 5.0, and call it a day.

The 6.2L as found in the Raptor and Superduty is nothing like the Modular as far as dimensions go.

It uses a 115mm bore spacing (Modular is 100mm) and the 6.2L Bore is 4.02" compared to Modular 3.552"..... the 6.2L only has a 3.74" throw crank compared to the 5.4L Mod's 4.165"

Daniel

[FPV GTHO]

I still think if theres any changes its likely just to be the new blower. I dont see any new displacement engines. The 5.4 is an orphan and the 5L still needs to make its bacon from F150 sales, so i think a new derivative of either engine would be a big ask unless its going to be used on a large scale.

[Falc'man]

And for how long have a I had this signature?.?

" ... 3.3... 4.1... 4.9... ?.?... "

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

And for how long have a I had this signature?.?

" ... 3.3... 4.1... 4.9... ?.?... "

Yep that's right, you were the first on AFF to call it.

Any word on if the "Supercondor" will be called GT500 or Boss351 Youssef?....

Daniel

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Yep that's right, you were the first on AFF to call it.

Any word on if the "Supercondor" will be called GT500 or Boss351 Youssef?....

Daniel

No eye dear but most likely the former to keep in line with current product placing and intended purpose. It looks like the Boss moniker is more for the track than outright power like what this and it's recent predecessors have?

I don't care what they call it; just make it RHD!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

Who said anything about FPV??? That would be absurb given the potential that Miami has, any attempt to incorporate and S/C 351 into the line-up would just be overkill, it may even result in this being a off the shelf crate engine. And as people have mentioned, the death of the Falcon could mean the life of the Mustang in Australia, along with its GT500 cousin.

Did you read the OP?

It asked could we see the return of the 351 under the bonnet of the Falcon.

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Did you read the OP?

It asked could we see the return of the 351 under the bonnet of the Falcon.

Of course I read it, I posted it. I thought it would be a gooden for the Falcon or XR8. FPV don't need a new V8, but Ford could take advantage of it at the end of the Falcon's lifeline as a send off for the Falcon.

[FPV GTHO]

But then why would FPV and Ford send themselves down different development paths?