Whats your rights....

[Matt_971]

Hey guys

Neighbours house was just broken into. me n a mate were outside talking JUST a few mins before n headed inside.

Anyways they got interuppted so nothing was taken.

My question is what are my rights if i catch some bastard in MY HOUSE.

I think I would end up with charges. And sorry to say anyone who says I should well dont even bother replying.

I had a car stolen one day n I could of broken the guys legs on the spot if i busted em. And even more with my house. I worked my *** off to buy it and everything in it. I dont have rich parents etc so i worked for it all.


Just as example if i catch the bastard n smash him in the legs with a tyre iron etc etc is he able to sue etc for damages. What can i then do in return.

It isnt happening to me but if someone breaks in i dare say i will loose it if i catch em.

I have heard talking with other ppl that you r LEGALLY (AND i say legally coz thats all) you are better off killing them in "self defence". But you still have to live with that. I wouldnt go that far but i'm sure i would make sure they walk funny afterwards.


Whats your thoughts....

And i dont wanna hear crap.

[savagE]

I am so with you, if i caught anyone keying my car or anything I would dead set make em a paraplegic, let alone my belongings.

[Green X]

You can only use reasonable force, I.E if he was keying you car and you busted his knees with a tyre iron you would more than likely be charged.

But there are many situation that bring into question what is reasonable force???

What you consider to be reasonable force at the time a jury and court may not.

[302XLS]

caught a guy breaking into my nissan pathfinder about 9 years ago. He was in the middle of tearing my dash apart as i walked out the back door of the club to have a smoke where i worked as a bouncer:jab:. Well to make a long story short, the cops came back two weeks later to tell me that i didn't have to worry about manslaughter chargers as the guy came out of coma and would be getting out of intensive care. they also told me that he would be spending the next few months in hospital, but no charges should be laid as they believed the guy learnt his lesson......... but that's canadian police :hihi:

[Matt_971]

damn that was lucky.

I know i not gunna kill anyone but is just what someone said.
I got a few friends here and next door is well connected also. One of me best mates use to run the security up here for a club. Recently quit coz he wants weekends back but still created a lotta BIG friends lol.

But I think best bet atm is put an alarm in. I am looking at doing that. I just started a business and looking at alarms at home as a service I do. I am Austel licensed but havent looked into security licesense etc.
Anyone know what is required?

[Rodp]

IIRC, the law was pretty vague in this regard in that you're able to use reasonable force to either protect yourself and your belongings last time I looked. I've had my car stolen a number of times, and if you were to ask me what my opinion of reasonable force would have been during the theft, it would have been to put him under the car. :P

I hold a similar belief to you yet the law seems to protect the theif and penalise the victim. I don't know about the 'killing in self-defence', it would have to be proven that the threat posed to you is in proportion to murdering the intruder. If you were being shot at, for instance, you could argue that killing the intruder would be grounds for a self-defence case. If you killed an intruder that didn't pose a physical threat to yourself, you'll likely spend a long time in the pokey.

So the definition of reasonable force seems to revolve somewhat on what the Judge feels like that day and a determinant of whether the force you enacted on the intruder was proportionate to the threat he posed. In the end, it's better just to spook them off than confront them and have to determine the kind of threat he poses and subdue him with just a little bit more force than he can enact on you.

[King Nothing]

Best bet would be to avoid them entirely. I sound like a sook, I know, but I can replace my car and my belongings. You never know if they have a knife or a gun (or a blood filled syringe, freaks) or what these days.

Ideally though, this is what I would do. I have heard of someone who caught someone stealing their car in the act. Slammed all their fingers in the rear door and let him suffer. That sounds like fair punishment to me, but I would have gone for a little drive as well :evil3:

[pertuan]

I got broken into 2 years ago in the middle of the night when I was sleeping. Didn't get woken up but when the cops cam around the next morning I asked them what I could do. They said that if I was acting in self defence I would be ok as long as I was using reasonable force.

The scenario I put forward was what if I saw the crook, and the crook advanced. Can I warn him to STOP or else I will be forced to defend myself with my trusty 5D cell Maglite. Cop said as long as you strike him enough times to just stop his advance I would be fine.

The other part of the question I asked was, IF the crook was already on the floor, can I continue to strike him if he starts to get up AFTER I warn him that any attempt to get up on his feet will be interpreted as a direct threat to my safety. Cop said it was fine as long as reasonable force was used.

I now sleep with my Maglite next to me.

[Matt_971]

yeah well that about what i was thinking.

Looking at perimeter alarm now. Area is not the safest in town and we cant afford to move atm so yeah....

Anyways hopefully this tool dont try it again. But best i prepare for it now with alarm n nice metal bat or something for defence.

Thanks for the good replies so far. I was half expecting someone having a go and causing a problem.

Cheers
Matt

[Falcon_Phill]

But officer, he was walking towards me with a knife saying he was going to stab me!

*dont forget to plant knife*

[Matt_971]

HAHAHAHAHA I will have to remember that LMAO.

[pertuan]

To be honest, I'm considering getting a couple of webcams around the house and setting up a CCTV type thing thats motion sensing.

[Matt_971]

thats not such a bad idea actually

PC is on nearly all the time neways. Have to look into that mm.

You got any ideas yet on it?

[eb_5litre]

If they touch your wagon let me know so I can come down and have some fun too ;)

[pertuan]

Originally Posted by Matt_971

thats not such a bad idea actually

PC is on nearly all the time neways. Have to look into that mm.

You got any ideas yet on it?

I believe they make Bluetooth webcams now so you don't have to run cables. Theres already software out there for webcams that will start recording when it senses something moving in the picture.

[Work Horse]

A mate had a car broken into in his front yard, stuff was nicked.

Some time later has dad caught a bloke in their front yard. He took his legs out with a basball bat and called the cops.

Turns out the guy was taking water from the front tap for an overheading car. It was dark and late so he didn't knock on the front door.

The cops would have charged my mates father, but the guy he hit said not to.

Taking the law into your own hands is not the right way and my backfire big time.

That said if had ever found out who stole my pride and joy many years ago I would have fed them to my dog.

[DoreSlamR]

There was a story a few years go about a sports club in kalgoorlie that kept getting broken into, so the owner camped inside for a few nights waiting for the offenders to come back. He knew it was just kids and all he wanted to do was give them a scare.

So they break in, he interrupts them and chases them out the door with a rifle and manages to ping one in the ****....he got 2 years for assault if i recall.

not many rights when one defends their own property

[Flouro_Joe]

Well, legally you have a right to insure your stuff and that's about as much as you can do.

[Nickxb]

I would be ****ed if someone stole my stuff but at the end of the day i would let them take it, its not worth my life to save my stereo....

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by 302XLS

caught a guy breaking into my nissan pathfinder about 9 years ago. He was in the middle of tearing my dash apart as i walked out the back door of the club to have a smoke where i worked as a bouncer:jab:. Well to make a long story short, the cops came back two weeks later to tell me that i didn't have to worry about manslaughter chargers as the guy came out of coma and would be getting out of intensive care. they also told me that he would be spending the next few months in hospital, but no charges should be laid as they believed the guy learnt his lesson......... but that's canadian police :hihi:

Interesting. Not the experience Ive had with the RCMP. Under Canadian law as a bouncer you are covered for any physical force you use to eject a patron from a Bar. Once outside, you are up for assault. And to prove my point we lost one of our bouncers to a sentence because he pursued and knocked out two guys in the parking lot. When he came back from Drumheller he would have let the guys blow his car up before he went outside to start a fight again.

[302XLS]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Interesting. Not the experience Ive had with the RCMP. Under Canadian law as a bouncer you are covered for any physical force you use to eject a patron from a Bar. Once outside, you are up for assault. And to prove my point we lost one of our bouncers to a sentence because he pursued and knocked out two guys in the parking lot. When he came back from Drumheller he would have let the guys blow his car up before he went outside to start a fight again.

You're quite right, but the RCMP and city police are quite different as well. The RCMP are federal and deal with federal crimes, not your day to day policing in metropolitan areas. As well, as you have stated about dealing with patrons of the bar, that is correct. Although in my situation the low life was exactly that - a low life that wasn't a patron of the bar and was known to the police for similar thefts,drugs and other things. So they decided to use there judgement and not charge me for assualt as It was in self defence, maybe went a bit too far, but none the less was self defence still. As i said origianally " TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT" I didn't intend to go into details about the whole thing, was just a brief comment on what happenned and the outcome.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by 302XLS

You're quite right, but the RCMP and city police are quite different as well. The RCMP are federal and deal with federal crimes, not your day to day policing in metropolitan areas. As well, as you have stated about dealing with patrons of the bar, that is correct. Although in my situation the low life was exactly that - a low life that wasn't a patron of the bar and was known to the police for similar thefts,drugs and other things. So they decided to use there judgement and not charge me for assualt as It was in self defence, maybe went a bit too far, but none the less was self defence still. As i said origianally " TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT" I didn't intend to go into details about the whole thing, was just a brief comment on what happenned and the outcome.

Ah I see. Yeah the Metro do tend ive found to be alot more "cowboy" then the RCMP. Had a friend who's wife was killed by a drunk driver in vancouver, they put him and the driver in a room together for 15 minutes. No questions asked.

[mrnsx]

Australia and America are different in the way that in America u can be a red neck and shoot the bastards, reasonable force if i remember right from 6 months ago in law is pretty much force used without being negligent, so if some1 was holding a knife and u hit him with a baseball bat in self defense = reasonable force , but if some1 was in ur house stealing things, unless they hit u, the most u can probably do is knock them over and scare them with something till the cops come

[XR6TickfordBoy]

At the end of the day you could just mess the guy up and say you defended yourself on your own property, they're not gonna believe the criminal! It comes down to how big your morals are, you could state any scenario if an intruder is involved and the police will back you up, but if you are to morally or ethically inclined the you leave yourself open to being sued by a criminal for duty of care!

[Nickxb]

Originally Posted by XR6TickfordBoy

At the end of the day you could just mess the guy up and say you defended yourself on your own property, they're not gonna believe the criminal! It comes down to how big your morals are, you could state any scenario if an intruder is involved and the police will back you up, but if you are to morally or ethically inclined the you leave yourself open to being sued by a criminal for duty of care!

You cant do much to them, they take into consideration what a reasonable person would do. A reasonalble personal would hit someone with a basball bat once, but if would hit them 10 times then you could by charged.

[chivalrydreams]

About 12 Years ago somebody pulled a knife on me while I was withdrawing cash from an ATM in Toowoomba Qld, and demanded that I withdraw all my money and give it to him. I hit cancel straight away so he lunged at me with the knife, I sidestepped and smashed his head into the ATM. He went down straight away unconscious. I knelt down to check on him and I noticed blood coming from his ear which made me suspect that he had a fractured skull. I was in the Army at the time and panicked thinking that I was going to be charged with assault and that my Army career was over. Some people who were passing by after much pleading eventually agreed to go and get the Police and the Ambulance. When the police arrived I was taken away to the station for questioning and they advised me that I was not being charged because I had not laid the boots in when he went down and I was only defending myself. If I had have laid into him while he was down I would have been charged with assault causing grievous bodily harm.The fact that I checked on his condition after he went down and called for the Police and Ambulance also went in my favor as did the fact that the incident was picked up by the banks CCTV system verifying everything in my statement. The person who attacked me was wanted by the Police for similar incidents involving elderly people and the only reason he attempted to rob me was that it was early in the morning and he thought I was ****ed.

[Bent8]

Well as far as I know your rights include defending yourself and your property from foreign attack...which means if someone breaks into your house and attacks you then you can defend yourself within the 'law' by using 'reasonable' force...does sound vague but then every situation is different and without camera evidence or witnesses, it's your word against theirs as to what exactly happened.

In the US, similar laws apply but some people http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n3517564.shtml can take it a little too far, just depends on the mood you're in at the time.

[PunkXR6]

he hits you first

grab a disired fighting implament (my favourite is a feild hockey stick)

wack him

call it self defence

[Agent86]

Reasonable force can be defined in levels of escalation.

attacker advanced bare handed, a blunt object ( baton, bat etc) would be demed one level of escalation ( not sure on the teminoligy ). but shooting the attacker at this point would be too much. a knife or etc and a threat to use said object would deem a gun more appropriate.

According to our local cops, after we had 6 months of 3-4 attempts a WEEK to break into our shed/workshop, the police told us that once we had fallen back onto our property that we could safley escalate our retaliation, due to that we have nowhere else to fall back to.
Persuing them onto the street would constitute attack however..

so take that with a grain of salt and go seek qualified legal advice.

[nugget378]

If offender/thief (whatever) is trying to escape there is no threat,and any violence can be viewed as assault or worse..
Only when their is direct threat of harm to a person,can self defense be claimed.