Chrysler SRT8

[Brute6]

I would just like to know what other think about this. The SRT8 being released is quoted as having 317kW and 569Nm. Ford and Holden cop plenty of flak over their power figures. 300kW seems to be a touchy area to get above at the moment. What I'm basically saying is that, by example, Ford (FPV) copped it when they introduced the F6 twins as being too fast or powerful, or whatever, and yet Chrysler just lobs in with their monster and nothing is said? It is marketed to the same people who would consider the FPV and HSV products.... I don't get it?

[AU-MUSTD]

I dont believe ford or holden have been told to keep the power down??? People are just trying to re ignite the scare of the 70's so get over it. Ford are the reason power hasnt gone over 300 as they dont want a power war with holden for obvious reasons but now with the chrysler they will have to. Cant wait for holdens response as they never settle for second.

[Mark351]

Typical hypocrisy - lots of imported cars have more than 300kW, but no one wants regular people owning affordable supercars...

[GTS_300_Coupe]

I reckon Ford should grow some balls and tell the government "screw you!" and release a 373kW GTHO just for kicks.

Bet the VE GTS Coupe will have the Chevy LS7 in it from the Z06. :

[Deadman]

Yeah. Ford should just say they won't build 300+ kw cars as soon as the government stops allowing any other models into Australia that have that amount (i.e. Mercs etc etc). If the government won't do that (which they won't) then they can stick it!! Go for it Ford ;)

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Bet the VE GTS Coupe will have the Chevy LS7 in it from the Z06. :

lol VE coupe, the monaro was discontinued months ago, where have you been

[Paxton]

RussellW has one. Ask him. He sold a GT-P for it.

[BlueRaven]

Somehow I doubt ford is going to p1$$ off the govt when they have just given them 50 million...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by BlueRaven

Somehow I doubt ford is going to p1$$ off the govt when they have just given them 50 million...

You beat me to it!!! Exactly Right.
Local manufacture V Imports.
The govt can control local car manufacturers allot easier than importers because the Govt give grants and subsidies to help local manufacturing.
If the Govt say "well mr ford, ive got a nice big fat cheque here, but im a bit worried about the way the power of your cars is heading...." you get the drift.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You beat me to it!!! Exactly Right.
Local manufacture V Imports.
The govt can control local car manufacturers allot easier than importers because the Govt give grants and subsidies to help local manufacturing.
If the Govt say "well mr ford, ive got a nice big fat cheque here, but im a bit worried about the way the power of your cars is heading...." you get the drift.

The other side of the coin would have Ford saying we have to have more powerful vehicles to compete with the imports.

[AU-MUSTD]

Show me the proof the gov is telling car makers to tone it down on the power stakes.

[russellw]

I doubt the government has actually placed any restrictions on the local manufacturer power ratings and if they have then it is complete crap.

There are plenty of imports with significantly more power and torque than either of the local hero cars and thus it makes less sense than most of the things that Government manage to dream up.

Cheers
Russ

[Iphido]

The problem is the VT-VZ chassis has problems dealing with over 300Kw of power.

For example for the 427, it had totally unique suspension and had to stiffin the whole show with rollcage, bracing etc. It just wasn't designed to street that kind of power. It wouldn't make it any faster, handle any better, and you would have serious ? over long term chassis structure and durability of components.

It just got too expensive. Same with the AU and BA, Although BA is proberly more limited by the output of the engine at this stage than the chassis.

300Kw was a nice even number for Ford and Holden to be power wise. 300Kw is plenty when the VTII GTS arrived, it was equal to M5, more than a AMG merc, Audi, it was *HUGE*.

Personally I feel as we could move on a bit, to 330-375Kw.
Reasons are:
-Stability control, Ford and Holden have that now, so with it on things are safer and more in control and responcible
-Better ,stronger gearboxes. 6 speeds, Auto and manual are avalible to handle big torque and big power
-With BF/Orion and VE chassis have been improved a great deal
-Better tyre technology, better grip, more progressive
-Better brake technology, Im sure we will eventually see ~370mm front rotors on Fords and Holdens in the next few updates. Falcon and commodore has Vented rears standard on V8 versions. We also have EBA, BA, better pads and rotors etc.

I think it entirely reasonable if Ford released a FPV 5.4L Supercharged with ~340-360kw and HSV a 7.0L ~350 kw GTS. This would be a 13-20% increase in power. Completely reasonable.

Plus could open some very prestigious export markets. Uk, Europe, USA, Japan. How can a liberal government argue againt trying to gain more export $'s with a premium product.

Besides, any loony can walk in any buy a 450kw+ AMG Merc if they have the cash, and they depricate something wicked. The older Supercharged 5.4's are fast approaching under $100k anyway.

How can anyone argue Local manufactuers are irresponcible when we are soon to see 350Kw/700 nm old car for $90,000!

God help us when the Cl65 becomes P plater affordable!

[freaky]

How much power do you need for a street car. With petrol prices going up. They should concentrate on efficiency rather than power output.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Iphido

The problem is the VT-VZ chassis has problems dealing with over 300Kw of power.

For example for the 427, it had totally unique suspension and had to stiffin the whole show with rollcage, bracing etc. It just wasn't designed to street that kind of power. It wouldn't make it any faster, handle any better, and you would have serious ? over long term chassis structure and durability of components.

It just got too expensive. Same with the AU and BA, Although BA is proberly more limited by the output of the engine at this stage than the chassis.

300Kw was a nice even number for Ford and Holden to be power wise. 300Kw is plenty when the VTII GTS arrived, it was equal to M5, more than a AMG merc, Audi, it was *HUGE*.

Personally I feel as we could move on a bit, to 330-375Kw.
Reasons are:
-Stability control, Ford and Holden have that now, so with it on things are safer and more in control and responcible
-Better ,stronger gearboxes. 6 speeds, Auto and manual are avalible to handle big torque and big power
-With BF/Orion and VE chassis have been improved a great deal
-Better tyre technology, better grip, more progressive
-Better brake technology, Im sure we will eventually see ~370mm front rotors on Fords and Holdens in the next few updates. Falcon and commodore has Vented rears standard on V8 versions. We also have EBA, BA, better pads and rotors etc.

I think it entirely reasonable if Ford released a FPV 5.4L Supercharged with ~340-360kw and HSV a 7.0L ~350 kw GTS. This would be a 13-20% increase in power. Completely reasonable.

Plus could open some very prestigious export markets. Uk, Europe, USA, Japan. How can a liberal government argue againt trying to gain more export $'s with a premium product.

Besides, any loony can walk in any buy a 450kw+ AMG Merc if they have the cash, and they depricate something wicked. The older Supercharged 5.4's are fast approaching under $100k anyway.

How can anyone argue Local manufactuers are irresponcible when we are soon to see 350Kw/700 nm old car for $90,000!

God help us when the Cl65 becomes P plater affordable!

Some interseting points.

Here's some interesting fact - VTII GTS300 (300kW 510Nm 5.7 V8) against E39 M5 (294kW 500Nm 4.9 V8) - the HSV was faster at everything. And the M5 was what, twice the price?

The AUIII TE50 (250kW 500Nm 5.6 V8) even managed to match the M5 in a straight line, and out corner it.

With the last wave of Euro supersedans in that size-class, the E39 M5 (as above, 294kW 500Nm 4.9 V8), W210 E55 AMG (265kW 510Nm 5.4 V8) and the old Audi S6 (253kW 420Nm 4.2 V8) - the locals were quite up to par, actually, they were better performance cars.

The next wave... the E60 M5 (373kW 520Nm 5.0 V10), W211 E55 AMG (350kW 700Nm 5.4 S/C V8) and Audi RS6 (331kW 560Nm 4.2 TT V8) eclipsed our cars until the F6 Typhoon. It's the first ever Aussie sedan to do a 12 (RS6 is no faster then Typhoon - M5 and E55 are a tad ahead - all at $220k vs $60k).

Now the next set of Euro super stuff is on its way - Mercedes being first to the bat with the new E63 AMG (380kW 630Nm 6.2 V8), and Audi has a V10 RS6 planned... no one knows what the M5's replacement will be.... and I'm willing to bet the local manufacturers will be right up there with them, they have some gun engines at their disposal...

HSV - GenIV LS7 V8, 7.0litres, 377kW 637Nm. Would be a candidate for the next GTS. The old ones - GTS 300 - were badged after the power. They could do this most likely with capacity - GTS 427 - or with HP - GTS 505. Anything else would look a tad silly, unless it gets rounded down to 370 or 375kW due to exhaust. Either way, gun engine would make for quite a car.

FPV - Shelby GT500 V8, 5.4litres Supercharged, 373kW 650Nm. Yep. They've rated it up. 500hp (373kW) and 480ftlbs (650Nm). Perfect candidate for our next super-Falcon (probably not based on the current gen, AU-BF Falcon). Which I would personally say should be the GT-P. The GT-HO is a bit too touchy feely to bring back, and well, the P in GT-P should stop standing for Poser, Ponce, Pansy etc and start to stand for Power, Performance, Pride and what not. Would make quite the rival to a HSV with the LS7.

With the European supersedans pushing the 400kW mark, I see no harm in ours having a go. The arguments that P-Platers will buy them are pretty... silly. In Victoria and New South Wales its illegal, and most P-Platers can't afford a $100,000 supersedan anyway, nor could they afford the awesome insurance. Plus these cars are about 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00x safer then a VK or XD done up to have similar power.

[FPV]

Well the european hot sedan shootout is only around half way through its life until the all new models come out(the new e class will be out around 2009). The BMW M5 was only really released last year(2005 is when deliveries started) so i doubt a replacement will be the priority right now, its the benchmark, and the BMW M division has the new M3 to get ready. The E class range has undergone a BF style upgrade, and is midway through its lifecycle with the introduction of the E63. The v10 rs6 according to rumours on forums will have a V10 bi-turbo engine producing up too 550bhp(410kw). The new Audi S6 has been launched with a naturally aspirated 5.2l V10 producing 320kw. So realistically it would be great if FPV released a model to battle these heavyweights. They certainly have a world-class car with the current BF range, they wouldn't be ashamed by shooting a shot at the euros.

I would be expecting the HSV VE GTS to be out this year probably with some engine producing 373-375kw. And even though every week there is a rumour with when a GTHO will be released and none have been founded as of yet, i think it would be still great if FPV released a vehicle such as that at AIMS as it will definately take the shine off the VE range and is rather unexpected, it would also tie in with the BFII upgrade, if there is such an upgrade in the pipeline. The SRT8 is great for competition as it adds a third degree of pressure onto FPV to improve its game, and since it is from the US it pushes past the barrier that HSV and FPV have been tap-dancing around for the past 6 years, the 300kw barrier.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by freaky

How much power do you need for a street car. With petrol prices going up. They should concentrate on efficiency rather than power output.

Agreed, and thats exactly the way the manufacturers are now going.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by russellw

I doubt the government has actually placed any restrictions on the local manufacturer power ratings and if they have then it is complete crap.

There are plenty of imports with significantly more power and torque than either of the local hero cars and thus it makes less sense than most of the things that Government manage to dream up.

Cheers
Russ

I don't either, rather i believe there was an "understanding" or gentlemans agreement between FPV, HSV and the Govt, however that may have been a while ago, or indeed is now irrelevant.
In any event how many cars get sold in Australia that make over 300kw? and at what price? $150K++, 100 cars? a couple of hundred maybe?
I doubt HSV or FPV would even notice those "missed" sales, if in fact they would have ever got them considering people shopping in that price bracket expect far more from a car than just numbers and more than HSV or FPV will ever deliver.
The F6 offers premium performance @ 270kw and around @65K, pretty good value really and plenty of scope to stay under 300kw and improve it.
The emphasis for local manufacturers is now more on features, benefits and fuel economy, Ford have made it clear there's more to performance in their minds that peak power outputs.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

In any event how many cars get sold in Australia that make over 300kw? and at what price? $150K++, 100 cars? a couple of hundred maybe?

The car that started this topic boasts in excess of 300 kW and costs about the same as the FPV/HSV product. It won;t sell in big numbers but some of the buyers will come from one of those two camps.

Cheers
Russ

[WILDTRAKPX2]

Originally Posted by freaky

How much power do you need for a street car. With petrol prices going up. They should concentrate on efficiency rather than power output.

Says he who has just ordered a shiny new F6 _2:

Oh and welcome... great to see another convert!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by russellw

The car that started this topic boasts in excess of 300 kW and costs about the same as the FPV/HSV product. It won;t sell in big numbers but some of the buyers will come from one of those two camps.

Cheers
Russ

True! i'll be interested to see how they actually stack up against the FPV/HSV products first though, numbers on paper is one thing but actual driving performance, comfort and reliability all are questions people will have top of mind because the car is so new and untried in Australia.
I think they look like a decent alternative for someone who wants something a bit different and less common, weather people buy one purely for the extra 20+kw over the other 2 though im really not so sure, especially if the others out perform it.
Im keen to see how the 3 go together though!

[russellw]

You might like to take a read of THIS - it's only an initial impression so far until some hard numbers are run.

Cheers
Russ

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by russellw

You might like to take a read of THIS - it's only an initial impression so far until some hard numbers are run.

Cheers
Russ

Good stuff! it certainly looks like a great car, im impressed!