Whats your take?

[Sizey]

I would just like to direct your attention to this article.

It happened near my place last night and apparently the guy that passed away was a cousin of one of the boys at work.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1225964816571

Won't comment too much out of respect. Took out some amount of power in the area due to a supposed drag race that ended up in the commodore playing pinball with a few objects.

What is your take on this situation and article?

[Auturbo6]

From the day were born we are threatened by death, some of us will make it a long time, others not. What else can one say, that's life. What an AWSOME day, because im still alive. later.

[Sizey]

Originally Posted by Auturbo6

From the day were born we are threatened by death, some of us will make it a long time, others not. What else can one say, that's life. What an AWSOME day, because im still alive. later.

Nicely put!

[GTpilot]

"This has every element for a recipe of disaster. Two young, inexperienced drivers at night and driving at high speed," Supt Fellows said.

Pretty much sums it up really.

[mik]

there`s not much to say really except condolances to the familys involved, you take the risk of dragging in the streets there is a chance your gonna come unstuck in a big way, the majority of us probably were`nt angels and managed to survive the exuberance of youth with probably a fair bit of luck on our side.
sadly experience can be a harsh teacher and is not easily passed on to younger folk.

[uranium_death]

People will never learn.
THe proof is the big red button with, 'do not push' above it.
You can try all you want, but your curiosity and belief that nothing bad can happen to you will eventually get the better of you...

[NickyN]

"This has every element for a recipe of disaster. Two young, inexperienced drivers at night and driving at high speed," Supt Fellows said.

My condolences to the Scarfo family and friends. I hope everyone who knew him and those who read about this incident remember that speed kills. How sad.

[GreenR]

For such a young kid to die is horrible. Despite the mistake and bad decision to drive irresponsibly never should death be the punishment.

Unfortunately and I hate to mention it but it is individuals driving Holdens that constantly "hoon" and drive stupidly more so than any other drivers. Statistics and reports continue to back this up ( In Victoria anyway). This is not directed at John Scarfo or anybody else at all but I will always think there are more idiots behind the wheel of a commodore.

[XCwillo]

I dont know about any other young people on here but i hate it when young drivers die!
I think the article was done very well in terms of the fact it is general media writing up about a young boy crashing, it wasn't filled with police saying they where speeding, but rather good words from people who knew him and his family.

[Jim Goose]

Typically us males at that age think we are all bullet proof.....
.... and grieving parents will always describe their child as an angel. No matter what they were doing...

[Landau Stable]

This is another sad story, yet it seems like i have heard it all before. The worst part is that the family left behind now has to go through the pain and ask "why?"
Teenagers will always be reckless and want to have fun. we have all been there and done that, but it seems today's youth are just getting more brazen and stupid, thinking they are death-proof. In the end, it cost this young man his life. We have all participated in street light drags at some stage in our lives. Either as a driver or passenger, there is bound to have been at least one incident. yet for the majority of us, i'll bet that as soon as the speed got close to stupid, or there was another car approaching which would get in the way, the race is instantly over. I can't understand why this yound man kept racing when he saw the bus ahead, and tried to squeeze around it.
My second thought here, is why is the second driver being charged for his death, by dangerous driving? The second driver did not lose control and kill anyone. Mr Scarfo is the one who lost control and killed himself. He was obviously a willing participant. By all means, charge the second driver for driving like an idiot, but not for his friends death.
Condolences to his friends and family.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by NickyN

My condolences to the Scarfo family and friends. I hope everyone who knew him and those who read about this incident remember that speed kills. How sad.

Speed does NOT kill , not knowing how to drive is what kills . If speed kills every second person in Germany would be dead in a car accident and they'd have a road toll in the millions every year . Sick and tired of hearing these stories week in week out , ZERO sympathy for him as it may be my family wiped out by someone of his ilk one day .

[grandpa_spec_F6]

After one night of driving my friends around I witnessed the following:

Red P Plater doing 10 - 20kms over the limit
Red P Plater changing lanes without indicating
Green P Plater chop across 4 lanes of traffic to get to a turning lane
Red P Plater with 3 mates in the back of his ute, all were drinking
Red P Plater roar up the left of me and chop in front of the car in front of me to get the turning arrow

Education... education and MORE bloody education! I keep finding that the older I get, the more the younger generation tick me off. I know they're 17 or 18, they're out for a good time, but by GOD are some of them disrespectful and downright dangerous when it comes to driving.

Don't get me wrong, I had my stuff ups when I was on my P's, and it is a minority that ruin it for the majority, however the minority seems to be increasing at an alarming rate...

[pottery beige]

How cool one FW wiped himself instead of taking a few with him......

[Ben73]

It's bad to hear. But I was not surprised when I read commodore. Look at all news reports like this and it's a scary high percentage of them are commodores.
I am pretty polite on the road and normally let cars out and let cars change lanes on front of me. Unless they are a p plater in a commodore. Then I will refuse to give way to them unless I legally have too. They bring it on themselves. I used to like commodores until I realized most young people in them are idiots. Even if it's their mums car.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Ben73

It's bad to hear. But I was not surprised when I read commodore. Look at all news reports like this and it's a scary high percentage of them are commodores.
I am pretty polite on the road and normally let cars out and let cars change lanes on front of me. Unless they are a p plater in a commodore. Then I will refuse to give way to them unless I legally have too. They bring it on themselves. I used to like commodores until I realized most young people in them are idiots. Even if it's their mums car.

Not just young people , virtually every SS or HSV and to a lesser degree SV6 is usually piloted by an imbecile , I see it all day every day as rep on the roads all day long . I always let them past me as I DO NOT want these morons behind me under any circumstance . And it is true when you look at horrific accidents Commodores are grossly overrepresented .

[FNQracing]

This has nothing to do with Commodore's or Holden's or whatever. Just a young man with a poorly developed sense of risk aversion. The fact that Commodores may appear to be over represented is due purely to the fact that they are more desireable to young people.

There's no shortage of imbeciles in Fords. You don't have to look much further than some of the threads right here on Ford Forums.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Landau Stable

My second thought here, is why is the second driver being charged for his death, by dangerous driving? The second driver did not lose control and kill anyone. Mr Scarfo is the one who lost control and killed himself. He was obviously a willing participant. By all means, charge the second driver for driving like an idiot, but not for his friends death.
Condolences to his friends and family.

And you need to know how the law operates....
The other driver is directly responsible for his death, why?
Because he was there street racing with him, he is just at fault as the dead teenager. If the moron wasnt street racing with him, he probably would be alive (for now).

If you knowingly sell a gun to someone (illegally of course) who is hell bent on killing someone, you are charged as an accessory to murder.

The 2nd driver is just as responsible for the other guys death, he did nothing to stop it, he encouraged the race by participating in it....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

And you need to know how the law operates....
The other driver is directly responsible for his death, why?
Because he was there street racing with him, he is just at fault as the dead teenager. If the moron wasnt street racing with him, he probably would be alive (for now).

If you knowingly sell a gun to someone (illegally of course) who is hell bent on killing someone, you are charged as an accessory to murder.

The 2nd driver is just as responsible for the other guys death, he did nothing to stop it, he encouraged the race by participating in it....

When did responsibility for yourself exit stage?

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

When did responsibility for yourself exit stage?

How is that not being responsible for yourself? If the other guy was alive, he would be charged too. They havent taken away the responsibility, they have made you more responsible for your actions.

It seems your perception of self responsibility is limited to the dead guy. There is another driver here, who is being held responsible for his part. Thus, it is self responsibility.

[Mr Hardware]

I'm with Auturbo6 on this one

plus i try not to put myself into situations where death is more than just a mere possibility.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by FFOracing

This has nothing to do with Commodore's or Holden's or whatever..

Yeah it does. A lot of young guys who buy commodores like racing and driving like morons. That's why every second commodore with a young owner has big rims on the front and stocks on the back. So they can do burnouts for cheap. Don't see many other cars with that combination of wheels. Hence why many people think young commodore drivers are idiots.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

When did responsibility for yourself exit stage?

In case your not aware, but helping someone commit suicide is also against the law (please leave out the morals issues aside).

Assisting in a robbery...

If you knew your mate had killed someone.... and not disclosed it to police...
If you live in a house and your room mate deals in drugs and you do nothing about it....

Are we getting the picture?

The 2nd drivers stupidity assisted/ caused the death of the other driver.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

If you knowingly sell a gun to someone (illegally of course) who is hell bent on killing someone, you are charged as an accessory to murder

bloody hell, you think this comparable to a couple of kids making a stupid mistake? Have some compassion for the situation.

I hate these threads, they turn into self-righteous ****ing contests, whereby p platers are made out to be devil. These are just kids, and they make idiotic tragic mistakes. My condolences to the family.

[monte.b]

just another kid whose ambitions exceeded his ability ,it happens all the time

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Yeah it does. A lot of young guys who buy commodores like racing and driving like morons. That's why every second commodore with a young owner has big rims on the front and stocks on the back. So they can do burnouts for cheap. Don't see many other cars with that combination of wheels. Hence why many people think young commodore drivers are idiots.

Ive seen enough Fords and Jap cars (FWD, they put the stockies on the front) doing the same thing. Commodores are more common, because more of them are sold AFAIK. There is obviously the 'Holden fanboi' element too.

Isnt that something related to drift etc? It is supposed to make the person look like something they probably arent. Just like when I was growing up, half the cars with "Holley Equipped" or MOROSO stickers, had stocko strommies on stocko 6 pots, if it was lucky it had Genie extractors.

Originally Posted by Brazen

bloody hell, you think this comparable to a couple of kids making a stupid mistake? Have some compassion for the situation.

I hate these threads, they turn into self-righteous ****ing contests, whereby p platers are made out to be devil. These are just kids, and they make idiotic tragic mistakes. My condolences to the family.

Comparable or not, the point was to show how there is a relationship between the parties.

No-one is really happy to see these things end badly, but when its just the person by themselves, there is relief they didnt take out some innocent with them as is often enough the case.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

Originally Posted by Brazen

... p platers are made out to be devil. These are just kids, and they make idiotic tragic mistakes....

I used to be a P plater not long ago, agreed, they aren't the devil, but after watching a number of friends write their cars off I am all for more education.

Touch wood, but I am the only one of my whole group of friends to never get a ticket, never loose points and obviously, retain my licence.

My Father had taught me from a very young age about cars, weapons and women, I now have a healthy respect for all three.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fmc351

How is that not being responsible for yourself? If the other guy was alive, he would be charged too. They havent taken away the responsibility, they have made you more responsible for your actions.

It seems your perception of self responsibility is limited to the dead guy. There is another driver here, who is being held responsible for his part. Thus, it is self responsibility.

The other driver, a Royal Park boy, 17, was spoken to by police at the scene and later charged with causing death by dangerous driving and has been bailed to appear in the Adelaide Magistrates Court later this month.

He didn't "CAUSE" the death of the other kid, the other kid did that when he hit the side of the bus and then took out the pole. Why is he being charged for the death of the other guy? Its not like he actually caused his death, I assume he didn't ram him into the bus/pole. I think a more reasonable charge would be street racing or something.

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

In case your not aware, but helping someone commit suicide is also against the law (please leave out the morals issues aside).

Assisting in a robbery...

If you knew your mate had killed someone.... and not disclosed it to police...
If you live in a house and your room mate deals in drugs and you do nothing about it....

Are we getting the picture?

The 2nd drivers stupidity assisted/ caused the death of the other driver.

See above, I don't believe the other driver "Caused" the death of the dead kid.

Its always someone elses fault, isnt it?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_au

After one night of driving my friends around I witnessed the following:

Red P Plater doing 10 - 20kms over the limit
Red P Plater changing lanes without indicating
Green P Plater chop across 4 lanes of traffic to get to a turning lane
Red P Plater with 3 mates in the back of his ute, all were drinking
Red P Plater roar up the left of me and chop in front of the car in front of me to get the turning arrow

Education... education and MORE bloody education! I keep finding that the older I get, the more the younger generation tick me off. I know they're 17 or 18, they're out for a good time, but by GOD are some of them disrespectful and downright dangerous when it comes to driving.

Don't get me wrong, I had my stuff ups when I was on my P's, and it is a minority that ruin it for the majority, however the minority seems to be increasing at an alarming rate...

Two questions:

1) How many non P platers did you notice doing similar things?
2) If there were no P plates on the cars as it was in QLD up until recently would you have taken any extra notice of these events?

It is too easy to vilify P platers when as if you are not one you must be better and part of the "good driver" group.
This is just another way that Govco and the media divide us into waring factions to keep our minds off the REAL problems.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

He didn't "CAUSE" the death of the other kid, the other kid did that when he hit the side of the bus and then took out the pole. Why is he being charged for the death of the other guy? Its not like he actually caused his death, I assume he didn't ram him into the bus/pole. I think a more reasonable charge would be street racing or something.

Its always someone elses fault, isnt it?

How do you translate this to mean, its someone ELSES fault? The charge does not mean the kid who died is innocent, nor does it mean he didnt cause his own death. It means, the other guy has CONTRIBUTED to the kids death. If he wasnt racing, the kid may have done so on his own, but then the second kid would not be charged. By racing, the kid has put himself in a different position, and thus is being made to take responsibility for his part.

He may be charged with street racing too. If no-one crashed, they would both be charged with street racing or whatever, but no-one would be charged with the death. As a death resulted from the act of racing, the one still alive is being charged. They cant charge the dead kid too, they would if it meant something to do so.

If you cant see how that makes a person responsible for their own actions, and it does not translate to making it all someone elses fault, I cant help you.