Vic P-platers get green light to drive some v8s and supercharged cars from July 1

**Silver Ghia** · 17-06-2014, 12:36 AM

In todays Herald-Sun http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1226956590896

Quote:

P-PLATERS are about to win back the right to legally drive some V8s and some turbocharged and supercharged vehicles.

Transport Minister Terry *Mulder is to announce the changes, effective on July 1.

He defended scrapping the blanket ban on P-platers driving eight-cylinder cars and turbo and supercharged vehicles, in place since 2007.

“These changes are not about allowing P-platers open slather to drive fast cars - far from it,” Mr Mulder said.

“What they are about is sensibly recognising that some smaller cars have turbo as standard now, for example, while making sure P-platers don’t drive cars that are big and built for speed.

“It’s about the engine size relative to the size of the car.

“These changes mean that instead of blanket bans on vehicles - such as turbo or supercharged - restricted vehicles will be based on power-to-weight ratio.

“Many eight-cylinder vehicles are heavy and therefore lack the ability to accelerate quickly.

“Similarly, many manufacturers are now using small or medium-sized turbocharged and supercharged engines to deliver improved fuel consumption.

“These new guidelines will have considerable benefits for young people, particularly in the rural and agricultural sector where current restrictions can impact employment.”

Mr Mulder said the changes were a fairer way of determining what cars P-platers could drive.

Under the changes, vehicles manufactured after January 1, 2010, will only be prohibited for P-platers if they have a power-to-weight ratio of more than 130kW of power per tonne.

Mr Mulder said vehicles manufactured before January 1, 2010, would continue to be prohibited under the current criteria as there was no national power-to-weight ratio data for those vehicles.

Victoria Police and the RACV supported the changes, saying the new system was fairer and made more sense than the blanket ban system it was replacing.
“It needs to be understood that the changes do not relate to high-performance vehicles,” Inspector Dave Griffin said.

“We are talking about vehicles that, by the nature of their construction, require larger engines to power them.”

Monash University Accident Research Centre director Mark Stevenson said he wasn’t convinced using a power-to-weight ratio formula to determine which cars P-platers could drive would do much to improve road safety.

“Whereas, if we ensured that every vehicle driven by P-platers had electronic stability control and curtain and side airbags, there would be a considerable gain,” Professor Stevenson said.

Working Against Culpable Driving co-founder Penny Martin is furious at the changes.

Her son Josh died in 2001 after being hit by a turbocharged car with a drink driver at the wheel.

“I don’t care what they say about turbocharged cars being more fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly,” Ms Martin said.

“Turbocharged is still turbocharged and these changes will put more V8s and turbocharged cars in the hands of inexperienced drivers and that can only be a bad thing.”

P-platers wanting to check what they can and can’t drive can search the probationary vehicle database at vicroads.vic.gov.au, which will be updated to include the changes that come into effect on July 1.

TURBOS A DREAM COME TRUE

P-PLATER Charly Williams is surrounded by cars he is banned from driving.

His job as a stock control cadet at Nick Theodossi Prestige Cars in North Melbourne brings him into daily contact with some dream vehicles.

The longstanding ban on P-platers driving V8s and turbo and supercharged cars means many of the cars at his workplace are out of bounds for him.

That is about to change on July 1, when the blanket ban on V8s and turbo and supercharged cars comes to an end.

Transport Minister Terry Mulder told the Herald Sun the change to using power-to-weight ratios to decide which cars P-platers could drive would result in them being able to get behind the wheel of “thousands of vehicles which were previously banned”.

Mr Williams, 19, welcomed the changes, saying he was particularly keen to drive a turbocharged BMW 125i he has his eye on.

“I think if you are a good driver and you know what you can do with a car, and you are sensible, then it’s OK to have a powerful turbocharged car,” he said yesterday.

“I could certainly handle a turbocharged BMW.”

WHAT WILL CHANGE

EXAMPLES of cars that are now banned for P-platers but will be able to be driven by them after July 1 include the:

■ Turbocharged BMW 1 Series Hatch 125i

■ Turbocharged Hyundai Veloster SR

■ Turbocharged Volkswagen Golf GTI

■ V8 Nissan Patrol Ti 5.6

■ V8 Toyota Landcruiser 4.6 GXL

keith.moor@news.com.au

All I can say, its about time.

Franco Cozzo · 17-06-2014, 12:57 AM

Wow so we're going back to the rules we had before 2007.

But it says vehicles manufactured after 2010? So a 5L E series is still banned, lol.

Came too late for me, could have driven my Ambo legally then if the 2010 thing isn't right, and now I dont have it anymore even though Im full license lol.

ultvict · 17-06-2014, 01:01 AM

Still a joke! I was perfectly able to drive a FG G6E (195-208kw depending on fuel) but I still can't drive an AU Fairmont Ghia V8 (185kw)... :/ That really annoyed me when I sold the FG and saw so many mint/old man AU V8 Ghia's but couldn't touch them. Oh well I get my full license in 6 months...

lucas2 · 17-06-2014, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald Sun

Working Against Culpable Driving co-founder Penny Martin is furious at the changes.

Her son Josh died in 2001 after being hit by a turbocharged car with a drink driver at the wheel.

“I don’t care what they say about turbocharged cars being more fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly,” Ms Martin said.

“Turbocharged is still turbocharged and these changes will put more V8s and turbocharged cars in the hands of inexperienced drivers and that can only be a bad thing.”

Yep the car is to blame, without a doubt

Sad news about her son, but there's only so much the government can do to legislate against idiots.

The change in rules looks like a more logical approach to the "newer technology" used in cars.

**Polyal** · 17-06-2014, 07:36 AM

While I certainly can sympathize with youngsters coming up and wanting something quick, and that these rules are are all but ridiculous, I think I have changed my opinion to the point where you know what...suck it up for a couple of years while you are learning.

xr6tjet · 17-06-2014, 11:06 AM

The law is totally flawed. As above you can drive a 200+kw or so NA FG but can't drive an old school 302 or 351 V8...

|Nate · 17-06-2014, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucas2

Yep the car is to blame, without a doubt

I seriously laughed so hard when I read that sentence.

I'm expecting next: "A pedestrian was killed after he was hit by a P-Plater driving a V8. The driver was also drunk, fatigued, high on a plethora of drugs, texting, eating and consuming even more alcohol while driving."

Leading person on vehicle safety says: "As we can tell by the recent accident, I propose that we blanket ban any car for P-Platers over 100kw as the risk of them not being able to handle the power is too great!

The Government and anyone that believes the tripe from ACA/TT:

In relation to the article, this is good and bad news.

Good because there's a wider range of efficient/fun and safe vehicles for up and coming P-Platers, but bad because there's still a silly ban on older V8s like the Landrover Discoveries etc.

I'm fairly sure if they just get the manufacturers kerb weight and factory power, they can easily add up the data for all of these older cars.

I wonder if they'll be banning any newer N/A cars that have over 130KW/T.
I know my car is around 140ish per tonne I think, yet I'm legally able to drive it on my P's.

xisled · 17-06-2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6tjet

The law is totally flawed. As above you can drive a 200+kw or so NA FG but can't drive an old school 302 or 351 V8...

It is all about safety, a FG will always be safer with air bags, dsc, traction control etc. than an old school 302, 351 V8.

People can still be killed in both cars, but you have more chance of surviving a crash in a new car.

I know which car I would rather be if I had an accident at 60ks.

Franco Cozzo · 17-06-2014, 12:16 PM

I was real keen on an V8 when I was on my Ps then by the time you get to full license you just don't give a rats *** about V8s anymore, if I was going to get another V8 it would be diesel again lol. You can still have decently quick cars on your P plates you've just gotta think outside the box, they removed power to weight ratio on NA cars and allowed forced induction with a power to weight ratio, but theres nothing stopping you from tinkering.

If you were that way inclined theres nothing keeping you out of a BMW 130i, 3L I6 190KW, manual, RWD hatch back.

On that list you can drive a Golf GTI now, they're not exactly slow cars.

Clintobear · 17-06-2014, 12:20 PM

it needs to be a power-to-weight ratio but still with an extra list of exemptions for performance based vehicles.
perfect example, my best mate has a '13 Focus ST (126kw/T) and he whoops my AU2 XR8 220 (150kw/T) in off the line speed and on the corners. it isnt all about the power. the tech just puts that smaller amount of power to the road so much more effectively, different gear ratios, etc.
on the flip side, his has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more safety features, but they only help at regular driving speeds...you leave the road at street racing speeds in either and you are the same level of dead and a young hoon (who these laws are targeted at) would be just as likely to do stupid stuff in either.

|Nate · 17-06-2014, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I was real keen on an V8 when I was on my Ps then by the time you get to full license you just don't give a rats *** about V8s anymore

I've never really been interested in V8s since I first got my P's, but I guess because I have my 130i, I don't really have a lacking of "power" on my P-Plates.

With that said though, I'm 3 months away from finishing them and I am keen on upgrading eventually.
I either want a 135i/335i or a V8 of some kind as they've been enticing me lately.

I hope the FX XR8 Falcon is going to be fantastic cause it's definitely on the cards for me if it's $50-60k, C63's are still way too expensive to consider at the moment. :'(

oddnutz · 17-06-2014, 01:00 PM

Quote:

The new laws introduced on July 1 will lift the ban on many low-performance turbocharged vehicles.

so according to vic roads my focus st is a low performance turbocharged vehicle

ah well time for some

then lol.

the wrx just misses out on falling into p platers hands

Clintobear · 17-06-2014, 01:01 PM

Needs to be a lower ratio. Maybe 110-120kw/T

Sent from my Nokia 5110

fgpsi · 17-06-2014, 01:42 PM

I wonder how many kids will now **** talk their parents into them believing an XR6T is ok by these new rules.

A family friends kid had an FG XR6T running 320rwks and never had an issue with the cops because he removed the turbo badge.

Franco Cozzo · 17-06-2014, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

I wonder how many kids will now **** talk their parents into them believing an XR6T is ok by these new rules.

A family friends kid had an FG XR6T running 320rwks and never had an issue with the cops because he removed the turbo badge.

Wouldn't work now with the number plate reconition unless it was registered under their parents name.

fgpsi · 17-06-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Wouldn't work now with the number plate reconition unless it was registered under their parents name.

That's exactly what happened

superpursuit83 · 17-06-2014, 02:10 PM

Being in WA I have always felt sorry for the Vics rules on Turbos and V8's.

Could never understand why you could drive a performance 4 or 6 but not a docile Clevo/Windsor in a tank of a car.

fgpsi · 17-06-2014, 02:14 PM

Anyone know how many fixed camera Auto number plate recognition cameras there are around Melbourne now? Or is it still just police cars who have them ?

Franco Cozzo · 17-06-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

That's exactly what happened

Only problem being if they stacked it they wouldn't be covered under insurance, the insurance company would take the $$$ just not pay out citing legal reasons when it came time.

xr6tjet · 17-06-2014, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

It is all about safety, a FG will always be safer with air bags, dsc, traction control etc. than an old school 302, 351 V8.

People can still be killed in both cars, but you have more chance of surviving a crash in a new car.

I know which car I would rather be if I had an accident at 60ks.

True but majority of owners of classic cars with V8s probably won't look for major power mainly for the sound and enjoyment of having an older v8. Unless they are going to build it ridiculously and modify the ****** out of it then that's a different story.

lucas2 · 17-06-2014, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

I wonder how many kids will now **** talk their parents into them believing an XR6T is ok by these new rules.

A family friends kid had an FG XR6T running 320rwks and never had an issue with the cops because he removed the turbo badge.

XR6T exceeds the power to weight anyway. It would be no different to them driving one under the current rules. One could tell the parents it isn't turbo..either way they would have to be naive.

Ruination · 17-06-2014, 06:24 PM

I think these laws are stupid, even though I am in WA and they have no affect on me.

It doesn't matter what you drive, whether its a stupidly overpowered blown/turbod car to a two seater electric smart car. Hit someone at 110km/h and its gonna be goodnight.

They need to have a better way of teaching new and young drivers the road rules, how to control a car properly and what to do in various events, instead of increasing the hour requirements on log books and having some random bloke sign you off when you have done your 25/50/100 hours etc.

Education is the key, not a time limit.

Bearman · 17-06-2014, 06:27 PM

This creates more grey areas for the cops, the last thing they need. Just makes it more tricky for them. More loop holes to be exploited??

Bearman · 17-06-2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgpsi

I wonder how many kids will now **** talk their parents into them believing an XR6T is ok by these new rules.

A family friends kid had an FG XR6T running 320rwks and never had an issue with the cops because he removed the turbo badge.

And if said kiddie stacks into me or any of my family which causes damage or injury my insurance company will go loco on him.

In an extreme situation it could lead to kid and family being sued out of existence. I'm sure they'll all enjoy living under a bridge. All because he is driving a car he is not legally allowed to.

Crazy idea. Just wait it out till it's legal.

simon varley · 17-06-2014, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Monash University Accident Research Centre director Mark Stevenson said he wasn’t convinced using a power-to-weight ratio formula to determine which cars P-platers could drive would do much to improve road safety.

“Whereas, if we ensured that every vehicle driven by P-platers had electronic stability control and curtain and side airbags, there would be a considerable gain,” Professor Stevenson said.

you've got to understand that he has got a vested interest in pushing that kind of crap. ESP and airbags may let you walk away from a crash, but they only have value after things have gone pear shaped. More emphasis on driver training etc would prevent the need for these devices in the first place.

Franco Cozzo · 17-06-2014, 08:01 PM

The laws haven't really changed anyway, as we could drive small non performance forced induction cars anyway, the only thing that has changed was 2010 onwards V8s are now allowed under power to weight ratio.

Which P plater can afford a 2010 onwards Landcruiser or new Nissan Patrol?

We could also drive prohibited vehicles anyway for work purposes as well, so really they've changed nothing other than now allowing a Golf GTI for some reason.

Should have stuck with the pre 2007 laws - power to weight ratio of 125KW/tonne max, who gives a rats *** how many cylinders or turbos it has.

K93George · 17-06-2014, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Working Against Culpable Driving co-founder Penny Martin is furious at the changes.

Her son Josh died in 2001 after being hit by a turbocharged car with a drink driver at the wheel.

“I don’t care what they say about turbocharged cars being more fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly,” Ms Martin said.

“Turbocharged is still turbocharged and these changes will put more V8s and turbocharged cars in the hands of inexperienced drivers and that can only be a bad thing.”

I truly feel for Penny and her lose, however, what on earth does the car being turbocharged have to do with the accident. Did it also run Premium and have a CAI installed? It was undoubtedly the drunk driver.

Penny then goes on to explain that turbocharged is turbocharged, well it isn't a washing machine! I think these small turbocharged eco boxes are wonderful if fuel economy is what you fancy.

It just doesn't make sense to allow a P plater to drive an XR6 / SV6 and not a Volkswagen Polo. Technically under the old (most recent) laws you could of driven an NA I6 TVR Sagaris with 262kw per tonne, seriously?

**Silver Ghia** · 17-06-2014, 11:17 PM

Further on this subject, here is an article just published in the Herald Sun regarding the situation in NSW. Note that the Ford ecoboost engines also get a mention:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/technolo...-1226957648227

Quote:

The NSW government needs to adopt power-to-weight ratio P-plater laws
HARRY TUCKER NEWS.COM.AU JUNE 17, 2014 5:13PM

OPINION: CAR technology is changing and the laws of our most populous state need to adapt.

The Victorian government today announced that it is overturning the blanket ban on turbocharged, supercharged and 8-cylinder plus vehicles for provisional drivers in the state, in favour of a power-to-weight ratio rule.

The South Australian government has had this in place since March and the Queensland government has had it since January. Yet despite considering changing the rules last year, the NSW government hasn’t budged.

Let me explain how flawed these rules are.

As a P-plater myself, I am able to drive Honda’s insane S2000 sports car that has a power-to-weight ratio of 140kW/tonne but I’m not allowed to drive Volkswagen’s five-star ANCAP rated Golf that has a power-to-weight ratio of just 83kW/tonne. Simply because it has a small turbo charger to save fuel.

I am also allowed to drive Infiniti’s Q50 Hybrid, which features a V6 engine that gets boosted by new battery technology, giving it nearly 270kW of power and a huge 546Nm of torque, yet, again, I can’t drive the Golf.

Ford’s excellent ecoboost engines are turbocharged petrol engines that are designed specifically to save as much fuel as possible. They do so by the use of the turbo charger and are usually pretty low powered, much less powerful than a lot of legal P-plate approved cars. But, of course, cars that run them are off limits.

The new rules only allow previously banned vehicles from 2010 onwards to be driven, with the official reason being that no official power-to-weight ration was available then. But it was also the time when manufacturers really began to push the technology for fuel saving measures, not just to gain power.

As we move on to an age where cars are more focused on safety and efficiency than ever, our laws need to adapt to make sure that those safe and efficient cars can be driven by the road’s most inexperienced drivers, instead of pushing them into buying 20-year old rust buckets.

New South Wales, it’s your turn to get with the times.

pauljh74 · 17-06-2014, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K93George

I truly feel for Penny and her lose, however, what on earth does the car being turbocharged have to do with the accident. Did it also run Premium and have a CAI installed? It was undoubtedly the drunk driver.

Penny then goes on to explain that turbocharged is turbocharged, well it isn't a washing machine! I think these small turbocharged eco boxes are wonderful if fuel economy is what you fancy.

It just doesn't make sense to allow a P plater to drive an XR6 / SV6 and not a Volkswagen Polo. Technically under the old (most recent) laws you could of driven an NA I6 TVR Sagaris with 262kw per tonne, seriously?

She really just showed everyone how ignorant she is of how cars work and the fact that turbo does not equal hoonmobile and that we will see more of these moderately powered examples real soon. Perhaps if she educated herself on the performance figures of the ones that will be legal, and the benefits of smaller capacity turbo engines, she wouldn't come across so bat-crap crazy.

NX74205 · 17-06-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

She really just showed everyone how ignorant she is of how cars work and the fact that turbo does not equal hoonmobile and that we will see more of these moderately powered examples real soon. Perhaps if she educated herself on the performance figures of the ones that will be legal, and the benefits of smaller capacity turbo engines, she wouldn't come across so bat-crap crazy.

That's basically what I would say, but you put it far more civilly than I could.

She doesn't know jack about what she's talking about but is pretending to sound like an expert. What was it that Shakespeare said? "Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." They are the people that I despise most.