power prices and renewables

[Bushbasher]

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

[mechanic]

Renewable power is subsidised heavily. The big con is that renewable power is better for us consumers, no it isn't, it's better for the foreign owned companies who pick up government subsidies to build wind turbines, solar panels etc.

This week an Australian company has had to seriously downsize due to foreign made wind turbines being used to produce renewable power.
Check the history of wind generated power prices in countries when the governments stopped the subsidy.

As for solar power, the base load still has to be met by coal [ or nuclear if we ever get some politicians with the b---s to do it ].

[Franco Cozzo]

^ That problem is the Government's fault, there is a potential to have a new industry here and research into green technology but the current mob isn't interested.

[Streets]

with all the people going solar, there are less people to pay the power companies, so the individual has to pay more

soon the solar battery technology will be good enough and affordable enough for people to run their homes 100% on solar and disconnect from the grid completely

less people on the grid means less people to pay the power companies, meaning bills will get bigger for those still on the grid, which will drive them to get off the grid as well; they call this the energy death spiral

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

we are about to lose Tindo, a local manufacturer of quality solar panels and, of course, the technology, employment and manufacturing base will be gone.

as long as Govco follow the wishes of big business and not serve the community we will continue to place our hands into our ever dwindling pocket of resources.

Australia is seen by the rest of the world as nothing more than a mine to be ripped up and sold off like spongecake.......that's "globalisation" and of course the heavily subsidised "level playing field" which see's us as a nation getting very little out of the resources that we give away.

every other first world nation is going renewable while we are going backward in shutting this sector down' instead of seeing this as an opportunity to export our technology and intellectual knowhow we are shoving our heads up our **** and going the other way.......madness.

our gas is being given away at a rapid rate of knots, our farms are being sold off as fast as we can sign the contract and out employment is being sent overseas as fast as the companies can close.

the question of subsidised power to the consumers gets really sickening and has been answered many times before so I won't comment again on that.

we are going "off grid" as quick as we can but govco and the multinationals have their sites on other money making opportunities to the detriment of the consumer once again, gas is one.

Florida has legislation in place making it illegal to generate your own power......

whilst we let the multinational investors rule our country the common man is in the poop.......I see nothing but poverty in the future for those who do not take the steps now to insulate themselves against the money focussed thieves masquerading as our government and the investment sector.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

Don't know how every one can blame federal government, state governments have more control on power companies in their own states.

[buggerlugs]

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

Which is what I find interesting is that one of the major political parties preach less government intervention, less "red tape" but they still want to dictate your life to you in ways such as marriage and they back big business in deals where we lose out.

Unfortunately if you keep putting a 1 in the box for either of the big two you can expect the same result from both parties consistently, as they have no reason to change because what they do is still getting both of them into power when their turn comes around.

The wake up call needs to come from us and we have the power to do it, people don't realise that.

[cheap]

Solar, wind, wave are not cheap, they are heavily subsidised my the consumer (direct and indirect taxes and huge rebates for producing power back into the grid).

At to the mix the hysteria of global warming, co2, sea level rises, dying penguins and a whole lot more (which IMO have been used as a smoke screen to hide the heavy subsidised).

Put it another way, imaging a scheme where people were paid a lot of money to walk instead of using a car, more and more people think this a great dea, but business which use cars now find there are fewer cars and their costs are higher too, car manufacturers can't understand this either and are forced to increase their prices, lay off staff and eventually move off shore where cars are still used. Soon everyone is walking and getting paid a lot of money. It is a simple concept, for the life of me I can not see a single issue...

[Ms_Jam]

the solar battery technology will be good enough and affordable enough for people to run their homes 100% on solar and disconnect from the grid completely

You don't happen to have a source for that statement do you? I would just be interested.

I ask because, from what I hear, the problem in going off-grid is the cost of batteries -- which I understand is typically underestimated and underestimated a lot.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by mechanic

As for solar power, the base load still has to be met by coal [ or nuclear if we ever get some politicians with the b---s to do it ].

Or hydro... ? The Snowy Hydro is only operating on a peak load basis currently, but would it have the capacity for base load (at least on a small scale)?

It was our greatest feat of engineering, I wonder why we have never sought to replicate it anywhere else. eg. FNQ has huge rainfall, but I guess its hard to get something like this through when everywhere useful for hydro is national park....

[damo76]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Which is what I find interesting is that one of the major political parties preach less government intervention, less "red tape" but they still want to dictate your life to you in ways such as marriage and they back big business in deals where we lose out.

Unfortunately if you keep putting a 1 in the box for either of the big two you can expect the same result from both parties consistently, as they have no reason to change because what they do is still getting both of them into power when their turn comes around.

The wake up call needs to come from us and we have the power to do it, people don't realise that.

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

Are we? don't think so.
Have a look at other countries government structures & politics & compare before you make silly comments.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by damo76

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

Big Damo makes a good point in his comment, try to understand your politics & understand the different ways you can vote instead of the big tick in No 1 box only

Abstaining from voting is not good, you are allowing others to make decisions for you, no use crying when things go against your ideals.

[pottery beige]

SH-Y needs to go live in a cave

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by trublu

Are we? don't think so.
Have a look at other countries government structures & politics & compare before you make silly comments.

You obviously work for the Government.......

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by damo76

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

Plenty of smaller parties who would be keen for your vote, don't have to do one of the big boys, if enough people think that way the big boys might not be too big anymore.

Look at how everyone used to laugh at the Greens, all of a sudden come 2010 they picked up seats in Melbourne.

They're now a legitimate threat to the big boys in the inner Melbourne suburbs and the big boys even recognise that fact.

Remember don't vote above the line.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Plenty of smaller parties who would be keen for your vote, don't have to do one of the big boys, if enough people think that way the big boys might not be too big anymore.

Look at how everyone used to laugh at the Greens, all of a sudden come 2010 they picked up seats in Melbourne.

They're now a legitimate threat to the big boys in the inner Melbourne suburbs and the big boys even recognise that fact.

Remember don't vote above the line.

If you ask me we have had our fair share of small parties, past and present, each and everyone has been a disaster subjecting the majority to the whims of an elist minority. Federation needs to be fixed, and fat chance of that happening e.g. why is there a huge Federal Health dept which runs zero hospitals?

The amount of waste is mind blowing ... but what does this have to do with renewables?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by cheap

If you ask me we have had our fair share of small parties, past and present, each and everyone has been a disaster subjecting the majority to the whims of an elist minority. Federation needs to be fixed, and fat chance of that happening e.g. why is there a huge Federal Health dept which runs zero hospitals?

The amount of waste is mind blowing ... but what does this have to do with renewables?

When Federal Parliament began there were no big parties just independent members, our government worked then & could do so today without big political party policies.

Cheers.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by trublu

When Federal Parliament began there were no big parties just independent members, our government worked then & could do so today without big political party policies.

Cheers.

Would we want PUP ruling the place, it is after all a small party...

[superyob]

Originally Posted by trublu

When Federal Parliament began there were no big parties just independent members, our government worked then & could do so today without big political party policies.

Cheers.

Your evidence please. And don't post up a link...

BTW, coal rules!

[GASWAGON]

Thers new battery technology that has just been realised in Singapore that drastically cuts recharge times and the batteries apparently can last up to 20 yrs cycle life.

Give it a couple more years and we should see some big changes in solar power set ups and electric vehicles also.

I personally cannot wait for this new battery tech to come around.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Thers new battery technology that has just been realised in Singapore that drastically cuts recharge times and the batteries apparently can last up to 20 yrs cycle life.

Give it a couple more years and we should see some big changes in solar power set ups and electric vehicles also.

I personally cannot wait for this new battery tech to come around.

It seems like everything else has advanced greatly but bigger batteries are still the same old stuff, we're only recently seeing some changes.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by superyob

Your evidence please. And don't post up a link...

BTW, coal rules!

Read your history on Federal Parliament, political parties & politicians, use to be taught in schools once!

[superyob]

Originally Posted by trublu

Read your history on Federal Parliament, political parties & politicians, use to be taught in schools once!

The ALP was founded as a federal party prior to the first sitting of the Australian Parliament in 1901, but is descended from labour parties founded in the various Australian colonies by the emerging labour movement in Australia, formally beginning in 1892. Labor is thus the country's oldest political party. Colonial labour parties contested seats from 1891, and federal seats following the Federation at the 1901 federal election. Labor was the first party in Australia to win a majority in either house of the Australian Parliament, at the 1910 federal election. The ALP pre-dates both the British Labour Party and the New Zealand Labour Party in party formation, government, and policy implementation.[2

I hate using Wikipedia as a reliable source of information, but it seems this large political party was around to see Federation...

[2011G6E]

All "renewables" are unable to stand on thier own two feet without massive taxpayer subsidies, full stop. The amount of power they produce is totally unable to run our modern society.
If you want to see a "renewables are the only way" proponent run a mile to avoid answering a question, just whisper "What about constant, on demand, high output base load power for households and industry?"...

[CoupeKing]

If that new battery technology is ever implemented (I read similar claims about 3 years ago), how would that change the mobile carrier contracts, considering the battery starts failing 3-6 months before your contract runs out. I`ve re-signed previously, not because I needed a new phone so much, but new battery. Been on pre-paid for a while now, just use hand-me-downs... 5,10, 20 year contract maybe?

As for us selling off 'assets', its not just the current Government, its been happening for decades. Even Peter Garret approved Uranium Mining.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by superyob

The ALP was founded as a federal party prior to the first sitting of the Australian Parliament in 1901, but is descended from labour parties founded in the various Australian colonies by the emerging labour movement in Australia, formally beginning in 1892. Labor is thus the country's oldest political party. Colonial labour parties contested seats from 1891, and federal seats following the Federation at the 1901 federal election. Labor was the first party in Australia to win a majority in either house of the Australian Parliament, at the 1910 federal election. The ALP pre-dates both the British Labour Party and the New Zealand Labour Party in party formation, government, and policy implementation.[2

I hate using Wikipedia as a reliable source of information, but it seems this large political party was around to see Federation...

Very true about the labour party being founded early but they have not been in power all the time in early federation, read your history, not part of it.

[karj]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

All "renewables" are unable to stand on thier own two feet without massive taxpayer subsidies, full stop. The amount of power they produce is totally unable to run our modern society.
If you want to see a "renewables are the only way" proponent run a mile to avoid answering a question, just whisper "What about constant, on demand, high output base load power for households and industry?"...

You state renewables are subsidised... but the fact is that so are fossil fuels... massively, to the tune of billions of dollars each year.

You claim that renewable sources cannot sustain baseload, but it does have the capacity to. In SA on Tuesday 30th September this year, electricity generated through wind was greater than total state NEM demand for a whole business day (9:30am to 6pm).

Data analysis by Hugh Saddler regarding South Australia's energy generation and usage last month shows...

...in SA there were several periods when wind generation was greater than total state NEM demand: briefly on Saturday afternoon, for much of Sunday, and again – most strikingly – between about 9.30am and 6pm on Tuesday, a normal working day.

'True' demand by consumers on that day (i.e. the amount of electricity being used by consumers) was in fact considerably higher than NEM demand – up to 20 per cent, according to the Australian Photovoltaic Institute – because of the contribution of rooftop PV to total electricity supply. During this period all of the thermal power stations in SA were shut down, with the exception of the two units at the coal-fired Northern Power station, each of which ran at about 60 per cent of full load, and one of the four units at the gas-fired Torrens Island B station, which was running at about 25 per cent of full load.

Considerable volumes of electricity were exported to Victoria. In simple arithmetic terms (though not, of course, in how the grid actually operated) the state’s electricity supply was 100 per cent renewable while coal- and gas- fired electricity was exported.

The capacity to generate power to reliably and completely satisfy demand from renewables is limited at this point in time, but continued investment and diversification would see this capacity increase.

Why are you happy for us to continue investing and subsidising coal, but not renewables?

That question is not rhetorical btw, I actually can't get my head around your position and would at least like to try and understand your point of view.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

^ That problem is the Government's fault, there is a potential to have a new industry here and research into green technology but the current mob isn't interested.

Nah , all they are interested in is the green vote, the whole political system is flawed, as are all these party`s , their no 1. priority is getting power and lining their pockets, it would not matter if any party came up with the perfect plan to make this country great, ie better public transport/power/roads/schooling/infrastructure the other/s would quickly sabotage it, if they could not find something to shoot it down ..........something would be found/arranged ;), wink ,wink.

Most of the population are almost as guilty as these ******, majority of the population votes for who gives the most hand outs, not for whats best for the country.
no one even gives a toss our manufacturing has steadily declined for decades, "but hey baby i can buy a cheap import", made in Australia is almost non existent, the truth is majority don't really give a toss.
we could easily do something great with the power , we have masses of space and coastline to do stuff, but again , unless their is either money or power/votes to be had, no one wants to bother .