Joining the Navy!

[sleekism]

I'm applyling for the Navy and am wondering what peoples experiences are.

I have put down:

1) Seaman Officer
2) Marine Technician Sub Specialist
3) Bosuns Mate

I was originally just appyling for just Marine Tech but then I thought I might as well have a go at officer entry as well and put Bosuns mate because thats pretty much what I was in cadets and enjoyed it.

The thing was that I think I ****ed off the recruiter by changing preferences he went on about "theres a waiting list for Bosuns" and "MT is a good job you will get straight away promotion".

Doing some research it appears there is a critical shortage of MT's and submariners. Why???

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Doing some research it appears there is a critical shortage of MT's and submariners. Why???

Ever seen Crimson Tide?

[FrogInASock]

There is a critical shortage of Marine Techs and Submariners because the Navy treats their enlisted people like crap!

Let's see, enlisted do muchly cleaning, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. If it's not clean enough, bloody well do it again!
Officers do bugger all cleaning. On my crew, we had a Steward who changed the officers' bed sheets once a week. Enlisted do their bloody own. Officers get dinner served by the Steward, enlisted eat in the mess/cafe.
Enlisted do all the work, Officers get the glory.
The favourite phrase of many Senior Sailors (Petty Officer and above) is "Do it or I'll charge you". Naval police Coswains exist for the purpose of finding ways to get you into trouble, not trying to keep you out of it.
Make no mistake, from the day you sign up to the day you leave, they own you.


Do NOT for one second believe the crap you see on Sea Patrol. It is nothing more than a paid, long term enlistment advert for the Navy. Lies, lies, lies.

I know this, I enlisted as a Marine Technician - Mechanical. I had a Fitting and Machining Trade Certificate and Associate Diploma in Mechanical Engineering, with 10 years in heavy industry. I had to fight to get recognition for many of my trade subjects.

If you insist in looking at the navy, join as an Officer. Even better, go through ADFA.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FrogInASock

There is a critical shortage of Marine Techs and Submariners because the Navy treats their enlisted people like crap!

Let's see, enlisted do muchly cleaning, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. If it's not clean enough, bloody well do it again!
Officers do bugger all cleaning. On my crew, we had a Steward who changed the officers' bed sheets once a week. Enlisted do their bloody own. Officers get dinner served by the Steward, enlisted eat in the mess/cafe.
Enlisted do all the work, Officers get the glory.
The favourite phrase of many Senior Sailors (Petty Officer and above) is "Do it or I'll charge you". Naval police Coswains exist for the purpose of finding ways to get you into trouble, not trying to keep you out of it.
Make no mistake, from the day you sign up to the day you leave, they own you.


Do NOT for one second believe the crap you see on Sea Patrol. It is nothing more than a paid, long term enlistment advert for the Navy. Lies, lies, lies.

I know this, I enlisted as a Marine Technician - Mechanical. I had a Fitting and Machining Trade Certificate and Associate Diploma in Mechanical Engineering, with 10 years in heavy industry. I had to fight to get recognition for many of my trade subjects.

If you insist in looking at the navy, join as an Officer. Even better, go through ADFA.

AND.....

All pussas are beef.....

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by FrogInASock

There is a critical shortage of Marine Techs and Submariners because the Navy treats their enlisted people like crap!

Let's see, enlisted do muchly cleaning, to the point of obsessive compulsive disorder. If it's not clean enough, bloody well do it again!
Officers do bugger all cleaning. On my crew, we had a Steward who changed the officers' bed sheets once a week. Enlisted do their bloody own. Officers get dinner served by the Steward, enlisted eat in the mess/cafe.
Enlisted do all the work, Officers get the glory.
The favourite phrase of many Senior Sailors (Petty Officer and above) is "Do it or I'll charge you". Naval police Coswains exist for the purpose of finding ways to get you into trouble, not trying to keep you out of it.
Make no mistake, from the day you sign up to the day you leave, they own you.


Do NOT for one second believe the crap you see on Sea Patrol. It is nothing more than a paid, long term enlistment advert for the Navy. Lies, lies, lies.

I know this, I enlisted as a Marine Technician - Mechanical. I had a Fitting and Machining Trade Certificate and Associate Diploma in Mechanical Engineering, with 10 years in heavy industry. I had to fight to get recognition for many of my trade subjects.

If you insist in looking at the navy, join as an Officer. Even better, go through ADFA.

How would you compare the Navy to the Army or Chairforce?? What about submariners and bosuns?

[FrogInASock]

I did 6 years in the puss, transferred to the RAAF as a GMEFITT (fitter and machinist). After 4 years, I still think the RAAF is paradise.

PROS: No duties, no sleeping overnight on base, FAR better senior NCO's (SGT and above), and officers - the navy is the only service where Midshipmen (officers under training, like recruits) get a SIR and a salute from the minute they walk in the door. Army and RAAF Officer Cadets must wait until they get their promotion to get a full commission. I got more courses in 12 months in the RAAF than the 5 1/2 years I was in the navy (ie: out of training).

CONS: Certainly as a GMEFITT, a LOT of people have to die before you get deployed! However, if you enlist as a Clerk or stores job, you can be deployed to the Middle East within 12 months of completing training. Which p!$$ed many other trades off no end! I believe that this is true for all jobs, the RAAF runs on paperwork. If you hate filling in forms, you'll tear out your hair!

A bloke who used to live near me is a submariner. He, like many sub-humans, was promoted very quickly because seniors are leaving. His description was something like "Leave Fleet Base West, dive, disappear for 2 months, pull into some port, somewhere, and give the wife a surprise phone call at some ungodly hour, sail again a couple of days later, dive, disappear for another couple of months, surface and enter Fleet Base West. Wash, rinse, repeat"

COLLINS Class boats are FAR better than the media gave them credit for way back then. It's true that they ARE currently the best diesel electric boats in the world, and can (and have) frightened the Yanks during war games. A lot. For the crew, the money is simply fantastic as long as you don't like seeing the sun after you leave port.

Boatswains' mates... Orright, I'm gonna tell you the truth here. Gone are the days when boatswains' mates had to have mental nouce. Most of the new "mullets" I met were plain stoopid. Let's face it, you don't need too much grey matter to paint, pull ropes, and scrub the deck (yes, they still do that).

As I said before, it's an Officers' Navy. The enlisted are only there to fill the ships.

[fordomatic]

Don't be soft, join the army, direct entry general service officer.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Don't be soft, join the army, direct entry general service officer.

All my mates are in the Army but the idea of hiring prostitiutes and having the company run a train on them doesn't appeal to me...............

What is your opinion on Cargo Specialists and Marine Specialists up in Townsville?

[outback_chick]

LOL.... buddy be prepared....in the army navy or airforce.. you have no life IT IS your life... I'm an officers missus... been there for 4 yrs with him... through all of it.... you boys think officers do nothing and get all the GLORY... hah.....thats funny.. 17 when he joined up for a mech engineer for 11 yrs...11yrs how the hell do you know what you want for the next 11yrs when your only 17.... amazing... they suck you in then BAM!!! thats it you cant leave....

[sleekism]

What are the most fun and best paying jobs in the ADF?

[GS608]

pilot? that has a 14 year sign up though

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by sleekism

All my mates are in the Army but the idea of hiring prostitiutes and having the company run a train on them doesn't appeal to me...............

Navy isn't for you then.

[Fev]

good luck with the testing and everything, i'd love to do the same some day! a best mate of mines sister is in the navy, i watched her ships DVD - they had off shore training and operations etc and it was amazing. It was just someone on the ship with a cam corder videotaping the events they were doing, the ships all around them, choppers flying in and landing on the deck, it looked like a great job. At one point the camera guy did a panoramic view of the sea around their ship. I kid you not, it looked like a clip cut out of a WWII video, there must have been 15-20 ships surrounding their own vessel, ranging from smaller frigates to big destroyers. I wish i was there, it just looked so.. well amazing!

[Fev]

Originally Posted by XR-CHIEF

pilot? that has a 14 year sign up though

that and if you've ever taken drugs before hand you aint gettin in. ive been told Acid burns a whole in your frontal lobe which controls hand eye movement and when they do scans or whatever they can see it apparently (no i havnt tried acid and no i havnt tried to become a pilot). I'm not sure if its true or not but i wouldnt be surprised. ive seen what that drug can do to people (steeeeeer clear!)

[fordomatic]

Sleekism
i would go marine specialist out of those two options for sure.

i, and all the blokes i know have never HIRED a prostitute, you dont need too.

I am in the infantry and have been for two and a half yeas, i enjoy it, hard at times but thats all part of the job. get to use every weapon you can think of and get paid to be fit. now i am a bit more senior i get treated really well and help all the new guys out. i would never do anything other than a combat role as joining the army and not doing a combat role does not appeal to me at all. getting deployed and serving for your country, doing what you train for is definately rewarding at the end of the day.

[bluestreak]

Did just short of 10 in the Puss as a greenie - Electronics Technician to the uninitiated. The first two sucked A$$ bigtime as they were mostly spent training. CERBERUS is not a lot of fun.

The next four - pre 9/11 - were a lot of fun . After that, a lot less so.

And once the resources boom started, it was all over - a lot of guys left or were poached by mines and rigs or other decent jobs with better pay and conditions. Me too...

When you leave, you have almost the exact same problem that FrogInASock had - no one recognises your training. Don't believe what they tell you about nationally recognised training, when licencing boards are run by the states.

Cadets is not a lot like the real deal either. It's a bit like reserves - you get to do a lot of cool, fun stuff while they tell you how good it would be in the regs. So you sign up and BAM!!! Then they own your soul...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking anyone out of serving their country, nor knocking my mates still in. And I (mostly ) don't regret my own time in the blue suit. But anyone going in to the ADF today needs to go in with eyes wide open and prepared to do a job that most people wouldn't do.

Still keen? Best of luck. I would recommend a trade in the Navy if you wanted to enlist, Seaman Officer if you want to lead or have a good career path, Engineering Officer if you're thinking about life after service. Join as a skimmer first - you can always transfer to sludgemarines later, but it doesn't generally work in reverse.

Stay away from Boatswain Mate unless you only want to do your minimum four and plan not to enjoy much of it.

Can't comment about other services - didn't spend a lot of time with them except at the school of languages at RAAF Williams.

I'll just get off my soapbox now...

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Sleekism
i would go marine specialist out of those two options for sure.

i, and all the blokes i know have never HIRED a prostitute, you dont need too.

I am in the infantry and have been for two and a half yeas, i enjoy it, hard at times but thats all part of the job. get to use every weapon you can think of and get paid to be fit. now i am a bit more senior i get treated really well and help all the new guys out. i would never do anything other than a combat role as joining the army and not doing a combat role does not appeal to me at all. getting deployed and serving for your country, doing what you train for is definately rewarding at the end of the day.

My best mate is in the motor infantry based in Darwin. He says it's a good job but is ****ed off he's been in 3 years and hasn't been deployed. He's hoping to go to Afghanistan soon.

I want money and adventure :

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I want money and adventure

Maybe the ADF isn't for you...? Generally you get one or the other, often neither.

I had a fair bit of adventure. In the navy you are almost guaranteed to be deployed somewhere.

As for money, let's just say I left the navy with nothing and after 5 years I've still got most of it left!

Nah, seriously, it's not all that bad - as a young single feller (or chick), it's not too bad a life, so long as your goals are the same as the Forces. And it'll be something a lot of employers will look at favourably once you decide it's time for you to move on.

Just so long as you know (most people don't) there is no pension any more. While I was in, there was Miltary Super, which you couldn't get till you were 60, but compulsary retiring age was 55...

They might have fixed this since I left...

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Maybe the ADF isn't for you...? Generally you get one or the other, often neither.

I had a fair bit of adventure. In the navy you are almost guaranteed to be deployed somewhere.

As for money, let's just say I left the navy with nothing and after 5 years I've still got most of it left!

Nah, seriously, it's not all that bad - as a young single feller (or chick), it's not too bad a life, so long as your goals are the same as the Forces. And it'll be something a lot of employers will look at favourably once you decide it's time for you to move on.

Just so long as you know (most people don't) there is no pension any more. While I was in, there was Miltary Super, which you couldn't get till you were 60, but compulsary retiring age was 55...

They might have fixed this since I left...

No pension?? WTF???????

I remember in the Howard years you would hear stuff like "we are funding defence recruitment by an extra 500mil a year" FFS 500mil would give evryone in the adf a 10 grand a year pay rise!

Odd question but if you are joining up with a mate and want to end up in the same place what is the jobs to go for??

Also are you allowed to live off base during IET??

What are the most mrs friendly jobs in ADF??
Cheers

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by sleekism

No pension?? WTF???????

That's right - no longer a tax free pension after 20 years. Now super at 60.

Originally Posted by sleekism

I remember in the Howard years you would hear stuff like "we are funding defence recruitment by an extra 500mil a year" FFS 500mil would give evryone in the adf a 10 grand a year pay rise!

A 10 grand a year pay rise might entice more people to join or stay. That money goes to advertising, consulting agencies, anywhere but the boys' pockets. Though, they are paying retention bonuses to people in critically short job descriptions.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Odd question but if you are joining up with a mate and want to end up in the same place what is the jobs to go for??

...Er, don't know. Possibly Army, probably Air Force

Originally Posted by sleekism

Also are you allowed to live off base during IET??

I'm not sure if you're talking recruit training or post recruit training (Initial Employment Training maybe...?) Recruit training - not a chance. Post recruit training, was possible when I was doing my time. I'm sure each service manages this differently, but I'd say you'd be able to.

Originally Posted by sleekism

What are the most mrs friendly jobs in ADF??
Cheers

Not Sludgemarines. Or SAS. Navy's not altogether great. Probably the Air Force. There are those who say it's not even really part of the defence force: - uniforms look like business suits; only work 8 hr days (Rarely About After Four); lax approach to the whole marching, saluting, rank thing... It's like ADF lite! The defence force you can be in without actually being in the defence force

[JC260]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Probably the Air Force. There are those who say it's not even really part of the defence force: - uniforms look like business suits; only work 8 hr days (Rarely About After Four); lax approach to the whole marching, saluting, rank thing... It's like ADF lite! The defence force you can be in without actually being in the defence force

Riiiiiight....

Thats right, all we do is sit around all day waiting till four so we can go home :

We don't stay back cos a bird has just broken down and needs to go out on a task in an hour... nor do we do shift work till all friggen hours of the day...

Or prep an aircraft for a SAR (Search and Rescue) at all hours cos someone's lost at sea... prep and dispatch aircraft for humanitarian relief efforts at the drop of a hat all whilst a detatchment of the Squadron is on exercise... Then theres the deployments....

Which air force are you on about? it sure aint mine!



sleekism, you can live off when doing IET. I did

[Ford_V8]

Thinking of joining myself, what's it like after hours at the various bases? Much of a party atmosphere amongst sailors or is it more of a "I'm buggered and going to sleep?" type thing, wasn't game enough to ask this at my YOU session, how about time for chasing tail :P?. As far as money vs. adventure goes, I was under the impression that there was a fair bit of dosh to be made while on deployment? :S

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by BA5.4XR

Riiiiiight....

Thats right, all we do is sit around all day waiting till four so we can go home

Which air force are you on about? it sure aint mine!

Steady on, already covered this earlier...

Originally Posted by bluestreak

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking anyone out of serving their country, nor knocking my mates still in. But anyone going in to the ADF today needs to go in with eyes wide open and prepared to do a job that most people wouldn't do.

ALL serving defence members require a level of commitment the average bloke in the street isn't prepared to give.

I'm not trying to start an argument over which service cops the most cr*p, However, see FrogInASock's comments above if you think RAAF have got it hard. I know guys that have served in the navy then transferred to the army, and others that have served in the navy then transferred to the air force. All have said they prefer their new service to the navy. There just might be a lesson there...

Ford_V8, as far as after hours - you're pretty much a free agent (some conditions may apply). Unless you're on a ship, or on deployment with army or RAAF, it is almost more or less a normal life - you don't even have to live on base if you don't want to.

There is some money from deployments, but it's mostly from the inability to spend while deployed. I've never been deployed with army or RAAF, but at sea "I'm buggered and going to sleep" tends to apply. I wouldn't be too surprised to find it's the same for deployed landbased units. They get their moneys worth out of you.

[fordomatic]

well if you go to afghan for 8 months as a digger your looking at a bit over 100k for that deployment tax free. halfway through you get two weeks off, and a return trip is paid for to go anywhere you want.

Sleekism i don't know what your mates circumstances are in darwin but if he hasnt been anywhere for three years there must be a reason. If you join infantry i would be very surprised if you didnt deploy at least twice in your four years.

at infantry iet's you do three months and live with your section for that time. Once you get too your battalion you have to live on for a year before you are allowed to move off. (unless you are defacto, in which case you get your own house). i live off off base and find i relax more when i get home than when i lived on base. I spend less on grog too.

if deployed it is very hard work, i was working on a 4 hours on two hours off routine. which might mean patrolling for four hours or overwatch for four hours. on base though on it is "party,party,party". especially if you have been out bush for three weeks, which you are lucky to get four hours sleep a night.

Each service has its own pro's and con's im not gonna say one is harder than the other as they are all stressfull. however i have found that the army and infantry in particular is by far the most physically challenging corps in the army. For example if it rains when out bush for two weeks suck it up and keep training. allot of civilians have this misconception that when training out bush you get sleep and sleep in tents. You sleep on the ground under your own piece of tarp and train hard all day and night.

since iv'e joined i have been overseas twice, and trained all over australia so the adveture is there. money wise i take home $1900 a fortnight and the army pays two thirds of my rent, not the best pay but not bad. Before i joined i was earning more but was not happy, now i earn a bit less but have great job satisfaction.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

well if you go to afghan for 8 months as a digger your looking at a bit over 100k for that deployment tax free. halfway through you get two weeks off, and a return trip is paid for to go anywhere you want.

Sleekism i don't know what your mates circumstances are in darwin but if he hasnt been anywhere for three years there must be a reason. If you join infantry i would be very surprised if you didnt deploy at least twice in your four years.

at infantry iet's you do three months and live with your section for that time. Once you get too your battalion you have to live on for a year before you are allowed to move off. (unless you are defacto, in which case you get your own house). i live off off base and find i relax more when i get home than when i lived on base. I spend less on grog too.

if deployed it is very hard work, i was working on a 4 hours on two hours off routine. which might mean patrolling for four hours or overwatch for four hours. on base though on it is "party,party,party". especially if you have been out bush for three weeks, which you are lucky to get four hours sleep a night.

Each service has its own pro's and con's im not gonna say one is harder than the other as they are all stressfull. however i have found that the army and infantry in particular is by far the most physically challenging corps in the army. For example if it rains when out bush for two weeks suck it up and keep training. allot of civilians have this misconception that when training out bush you get sleep and sleep in tents. You sleep on the ground under your own piece of tarp and train hard all day and night.

since iv'e joined i have been overseas twice, and trained all over australia so the adveture is there. money wise i take home $1900 a fortnight and the army pays two thirds of my rent, not the best pay but not bad. Before i joined i was earning more but was not happy, now i earn a bit less but have great job satisfaction.

Same problem I will probably take a pay cut joining up but I want to do a job I enjoy.

I have a lot of mates who are grunts but it may sound petty but I don't want to be where mates who dropped out of highschool are I want to be part of something where going to University is actually relevant.

Are you being deployed?? My mate is shipping out to Afghanistan this year.

[fordomatic]

yeh mate been deployed, going again next year if all goes to plan.

i get what you mean, thats why maybe officer entry is for you?

[bluestreak]

It depends on what you want from your time in the service. Army, especially infantry, is a lot more physical than the other two services, from what I've seen. If that's your thing, then fordomatic is onto it - Army direct entry general service officer, or ADFA, depending on age, school grades, etc.

The other two services have some pretty good officer options, too.

It also depends on what you want to study. Unless you study engineering or medicine it is unlikely that what you study will even be relevant to the role you fulfill. The defence force, rightly or wrongly, believes it's best leaders should be university trained. WHAT they study isn't as important as the fact that they DO study. Most "Non-Skilled" officers have degrees in business, arts, pychology or underwater basket weaving.

There are also plenty of skilled or technical roles, both officer and enlisted. Don't ever think lowly of someone because they are enlisted and not commissioned - there are many guys doing "sh*tk*ck*ng" jobs, who are better educated and trained than the officers leading them.

There is the chance to commission from the ranks as well - I was offered every time I did my performance reviews. Some guys just like what they do - I used to.

So the thing is this - just because you make a choice, doesn't necessarily mean you're stuck with it.


:

[JC260]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

There are also plenty of skilled or technical roles, both officer and enlisted. Don't ever think lowly of someone because they are enlisted and not commissioned - there are many guys doing "sh*tk*ck*ng" jobs, who are better educated and trained than the officers leading them

Well said mate.

Didn't mean to come across in an attacking manner in my other post. But i do get a bit sick of people implying that the RAAF is the "soft" option. It may not be as physically demanding as the Army for sure, but it still can be an intense job that requires different skills.

I've never done Army or Navy basic training so I don't know how they compare, but when I completed RAAF basic training the numbers were as follows,
72 started the course.
38 graduated.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by BA5.4XR

Didn't mean to come across in an attacking manner in my other post. But i do get a bit sick of people implying that the RAAF is the "soft" option.

No worries, dude. I wasn't having a dig, more of a comment that a lot of guys in the RAAF seem to be enjoying their time more than the other two services. In a time when record numbers are leaving the defence force, I'd say that says something about the air force that the other two services should look into.

Originally Posted by BA5.4XR

I've never done Army or Navy basic training so I don't know how they compare, but when I completed RAAF basic training the numbers were as follows,
72 started the course.
38 graduated.

Shows not any goose can get through. It takes something that a lot of people don't have. Mental strength, even more than physical strength.

BTW, I joined with 270odd other sailors(maybe more? Largest intake since WWII), and 256 graduated. But as those who've been through it understand, that's only the beginning.


For those considering joining up, it's not all marching, shouting, pushups, etc - those things DO happens, but it's not all there is to it.


:

[JC260]

Originally Posted by bluestreak

For those considering joining up, it's not all marching, shouting, pushups, etc - those things DO happens, but it's not all there is to it.

There's heaps more to it and geez you have some fun!!! Some of the things i've been able to do during and since all my training have been awesome!

At basic you just need to "play the game", as they say. Just be where you need to be and do what your told, simple.
Its the people that insist on fighting the system that struggle or drop out.