au auto trans

[natedogg1986]

has anyone experienced slipping in 1st gear out of the BTR 4 speed.

I have noticed it doing it intermittently the last week. Happened 2 or 3 times now.

Any ideas if it might be a solenoid issue or clutches/bands in the trans?

[russellw]

Could be C2 clutch but check fluid level and fluid condition as a starting point.

Cheers
Russ

[falconhell74]

service the trans and add lucas stop slips its brilliant stuff , it rejuvenates seals , deglazes servos & helps rejuvenate old oil

[natedogg1986]

thanks for the reply's, can you tell me which solenoid controls the c2 clutch?

[OzriderXR8]

Aren't these sealed at the factory?

I didn't think I could do mine at home, I want to do a flush and replace all fluids.

[natedogg1986]

the transmission is not sealed and can be serviced.

[Blue Shadow]

They called it a sealed trans, but you can change & top up ATF and filter.

[Uncle_Ken]

Originally Posted by falconhell74

service the trans and add lucas stop slips its brilliant stuff , it rejuvenates seals , deglazes servos & helps rejuvenate old oil

Have you used this a Lot? did you use the whole bottle?
UK

[falconhell74]

yes I have used it on many vehicles over the years .
You use the full bottle its like a honey consistency .
I once used it on a old HG ute that had lost all drive , dumped the old oil and used 2 bottles in it , she went ok after with only minimal slippage at high revs , just needed to get it from a to b as it was a project , so I know first hand many times over that it is good stuff , it is also recommended for use in new transmissions for longer life .

Get a trans service kit drop the old oil , put in the new filter and pour it into the pan before you bolt it back on then fill with trans fluid.

[natedogg1986]

UPDATE

After some reading through the workshop manual, I decided to replace the 6 solenoids that are mounted in the Valve body as well as do a service.

Bosch solenoids were purchased and all was set to be replaced.

On removal of the pan, no metal or clutch pack material was found and fluid colour was good.

On inspection of the solenoids I purchased, there were 2 different part numbers of the on/off type solenoids. The ones I purchased matched the s1 and s2 but not s2,s4,s6.

After some research on the net I could not find an answer as to the difference so I just replaced the s1, s2 and s5 solenoid.

I also replaced the O-rings on the front band servo as a preventive measure as some dust was sticking around the sealing surface, indicating minor weeping.

Does anyone know the difference between the on/off type solenoids???????

[gregaust]

The solenoids are all the same . The C2 clutch is the forward clutch and is hydraulically controlled from the manual valve . Solenoids don't do everything .
Easy way to remember
S1 + S2 do all the shifting
S3 + S4 are for shift quality , I.E smooth shifts
S5 is the variable pressure solenoid and is different to all the others as you prob know .
S6 is the cutback , that drops line pressure as road speed increases
S7 is for lockup converter

[aussiblue]

Does anyone know the difference between the on/off type solenoids???????

See page 5 of this http://www.pertheseries.com/other_fi...(EAII-EF1).pdf Noting on later (AU onwards) transmissions they went to all being normally open On/Off solenoids except the VPS solenoid.

But likely other parts of this document will also be of interest to you.

[George V]

As per previous posts, all solenoids except S5 are identical.

If your auto was slipping only recently, especially in recent cold mornings during first start up / first bend, the it may be due to low oil level.

Check your stall speed in D and in reverse, if C2 is slipping then stall speed in D will be high (above 2200rpm).

There is a very good thread by Jonydep on servicing autos.


Regards,
George V

[natedogg1986]

All the information I could find said they were the same but if that was the case then why would there be different part numbers?

Only thing I could think of was that the position of the valve in the solenoid was different between the 2 types.

IE: Brown - Open normally, Closed when energised.
Black - Closed Normally, Open when energised.

[natedogg1986]

Think I found the answer.

Page 6 in the link below talks about normally open and normally closed.

http://www.pertheseries.com/other_fi...(EAII-EF1).pdf

Anyone confirm?

[gregaust]

They're the same

[natedogg1986]

Thanks for that,

How do they achieve the normally open/normally closed differences?

[gregaust]

Not sure what they are on about there re NO vs NC . The solenoids are the same . You cannot swap a NO + NC , just won't work
The only difference I have come across is most use a plastic body solenoid . Some , I think around EB use a metal body solenoid that i don't think interchange

Only other differences in valvebodies is up to AU or thereabouts the solenoids earth individually , BA on they earth back to ECU

[natedogg1986]

Are you able to find any information on these numbers? May shed some light on what they are talking about in the manual.

0 260 120 017
And
0 260 120 029

[aussiblue]

Prior to the AU the BTR had two types of solenoids in addition to the VPS ones. The normally open (NO) solenoids allow fluid to flow until power is applied to them they close cutting off the fluid flow. Normally closed (NC) solenoid allow no fluid flow until power is applied. Power when applied activates a copper wire coil creating a magnetic force that moves a plunger inside that coil in or out opening (NC) or closing (NO) the valve.

How do they achieve the normally open/normally closed differences?

Like this:



or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPTtxBVpKH8

The two types (NO and NC) are not interchangeable. From AU onwards they are all normally open solenoids and are interchangeable.

EAs and a few early EBs had metal bodied solenoids but all since the ED have been plastic bodied.

[aussiblue]

Are you able to find any information on these numbers? May shed some light on what they are talking about in the manual.

0 260 120 017
And
0 260 120 029

Ford part numbers are EF 640070 A1 or EF 14003 2 A1 (e.g. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-F...UAAOSwLzdWSHo4 ) so those numbers mean nothing to me. What manual; Ford factory or aftermarket?

[aussiblue]

Note that officially all after the EA were plastic bodied solenoids but I have seen them in EBs and later cars albeit as they were not cars with know histories they could have been retrofitted replacement spare parts. And to correct myself, it was also from the EB (not the AU) onwards that they went to all being normally open on/off solenoids.

[natedogg1986]

Thanks for that. The part numbers are the Bosch numbers on the solenoid.

When going this exercise today, s1,s2 were 0 260 120 029. Brown bodied.

s3,s4,s6 were 0 260 120 017. Black bodied.

I have compared the two and there is external differences in them, but oviously cannot see inside.



As you can see from the above image, you can see the differences I am talking about.

I also noted the ba range has 1 more brown type and 1 less black type. Which I find interesting.

[aussiblue]

Are you able to find any information on these numbers? May shed some light on what they are talking about in the manual.

0 260 120 017
And
0 260 120 029

Ok the answer is here http://muadiller.com/Ureticiler.aspx...cturer?page=10 they are Bosch part numbers.

0 260 120 029 = EF 640070 A1 as BTR trans solenoid

0 260 120 017 = FORD 0585640029 and I am not sure what that fits.

[aussiblue]

It's likely the two types are interchangeable but I don't know. This thread would suggest they are http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=21444

[natedogg1986]

It is interesting that if there is no difference between them, why were they used. I'm sure there would be a reason for it, but no one seems to know.

When Tuesday comes around I might ring ford and motorspecs and ask the question of them.

[aussiblue]

This would suggest that the brown ones are new improved design http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-EF-EL-A...-/350321482521 that other thread also had the black ones as the ones that failed. I seem to recall there was a redesign of involving the mesh screen/filters as they were a cause of seized solenoid on earlier transmissions. Were the mesh screen a separate part on black ones but integrated on the brown ones? I have some recollection on having to remove a seperate mesh screen from the hole before inserting the later model solenoids; or was that the other way around? Or perhaps the mesh screen became easily detached from the black one. Or maybe Alzheimer's has hit me and I am imagining things again.

[natedogg1986]

[natedogg1986]

You can see the differences on the ends of the solenoids.

[aussiblue]

You can see the differences on the ends of the solenoids

Yes; but this reinforces my questionable memory that the early black ones may have had separate mesh screens you had to be sure to remove when replacing them with the brown ones with integrated mesh screens.