Church Of Climatology

[Walt Kowalski]

After today's pathetic decsion on an Extra Tax Sytem for Australians, we know for sure that Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull are both members of the Climate Change Church.

They are fanatical Fundamentalist Mother Earth Worshippers and put their earth worship above everything else.

How did a such Laboral person get to be Leader of the Liberal party?

What hope have we as a Nation with leaders like these two clowns

Only time will tell if they are both members of the One World Government Church after Copenhagen.

Krudd for UN?

[SSD-85]

It's what we have all known all along. "climate change" is just a way of extracting more money out of the populace, and attempting to make us all feel bad in the process. There is so much evidence to dismiss the "climate change" facade it must be someones full time job to stop it from getting out....

[banarcus]

I agree with you 100% Walt.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by banarcus

After he was voted in, I remember when he proposed a European Union style government for the Pacific and SE Asia.
.

If you believe the rumours it's already on the way. 3 different unions- the European-American Union, the African Union, and the Asia/Pacific Union (APEC) have been created and eventually all merge into one world union. Using the right crisis (in this case global warming) they can use it as a means to create the government

I have an open mind, I don't believe everything I read- but there's some dodgy stuff going on behind closed doors

[Rodp]

Oops, accidently stumbled onto a Politics forum. Looking for the Ford section, anyone know where it is?

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Oops, accidently stumbled onto a Politics forum. Looking for the Ford section, anyone know where it is?

The bloody government has band it and now all we can talk about is conspiracy theory's

[xy500]

Originally Posted by Rodp

Oops, accidently stumbled onto a Politics forum. Looking for the Ford section, anyone know where it is?

lol, good call
but seriously ets sucks balls

[uranium_death]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/...-1225803452749

Bolt gives his view.

To some others, please use a dictionary.

[Walt Kowalski]

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS

It is about how our twe major political parties joined forces against the people to remove the freedoms your grandfathers and fathers fought for in WW1 and WW11

If you do not understand that please refrain from flippant remarks. Do some research.

This is the MOST serious thing that has happened to your freedom since WW11.

Sure its not fun like Ford stuff but your children will not have the freedoms you have become accustomed to if these One Worlders continue to get their way.

Democracy in Australia - Yeah right.

[Mr Brooksy]

Not jumping to Rudd or Tumbledriers deffence here, but I wouldn't go as far as saying they they have intentionally gone about trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes, any MORE or LESS than the media have.

Agreed that everyones claiming Armageddon in the political realm, not to mention media and big businesses that can cash in on the fears of climatechange (Toyota hybid rubbish drive anyone?), but I'm beginning to wonder about the other side of the coin too. The companies etc that say climate change is nonesence. It seems to me and other people I know that there are two camps, both with vested interests! While those of us in the general public try and sort fact from agenda.

One thing I have noticed recently too when talking about climate change is that ultimately we have not been keeping records on this planet long enough to say either "yes we are effecting the climate with our polution" or "no we are just in a part of the earths natural cycle".

What I do know is that, yes I can and need to stop buying non biodegradable products where possible, and take more responsibility for what I do to or for the planet. But preaching death and destruction (to borry from the theme of this thread) only puts people off, thinking that they are loonies and tree huggers. If there is an issue we won't know cause we have two sides telling us that the other is the devil himself!

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[GreenMachine]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

It is about how our twe major political parties joined forces against the people to remove the freedoms your grandfathers and fathers fought for in WW1 and WW11

Can you please explain how my grandfather was fighting for anything to do with this issue? As far as he remembers (I'd back him on this one), he was fighting German fascism and Japanese invasion of Australia.

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Can you please explain how my grandfather was fighting for anything to do with this issue? As far as he remembers (I'd back him on this one), he was fighting German fascism and Japanese invasion of Australia.

I guess what he is trying to argue that our grandfathers fought to maintain the independence of Australia from foreign control (Japanese/Nazi fascism). Now we are facing another threat, but one that isn’t materialised in a military invasion. Instead it is one of economic control.

From what I understand, the Copenhagen agreement basically wants 0.7% of the first world’s GDP (Gross Domestic Product), I’ve read about $7 billion a year, every year, from Australia. This money will be given to the United Nations, where they will do with it what they see fit. Much of this money will be given to third world nations. It will also give the UN the power to punish any country who does not meet reduction targets via more payments to the UN.

The UN or its members and representatives were not elected by anyone in this country. Hence we are handing over a portion of control over our industries and economy to a non-elected governing body. It gives the UN economic power to essentially control how much everything will cost here in Australia.

So I can see the link. Control over our economy is control over our country. Our Grandfathers fought to keep Australia controlled by an elected government. This agreement will take control from our government, and hence our hands as citizens of this country, and place it into a non-democratically determined governing body.

The whole CRU/climategate affair has really thrown a big question mark over the credibility of climate change science. For those who haven’t been following closely, here is basically what has happened;

The East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU) is a government funded, university based research group in the UK. They are a leading body on climate change science and holders of a great deal of climate records (temperatures, rainfall, etc). The data they have and the models they created feature very heavily in the IPCCs report on climate change, which has determined the UN’s and the US EPA’s stance on whether CO2 is a dangerous pollutant and contributor to climate change. This stance is what guides our own government and other around the world on the need to implement an ETS.

The CRU was hacked last week (or possibly leaked from an internal source), and a large amount of emails, data, code and documents were released on the net. From what I have read, and many have commented, (from both pro- and anti- GW scientists) it brings the whole schemozzle into question. Perhaps not whether man made GW is real, but certainly how severe it may be. What has been revealed in these emails and documents are

1. That pro GW scientists colluded together to give a unified view on the impact of GW

2. That these scientists deliberately controlled the peer review process by ensuring that only selected pro-GW scientists would review their papers, that those who attempted to publish anti-GW papers were excluded from the peer review process (and hence excluded from the IPCC report), that the editors of journals which published anti-GW papers were threatened and subsequently removed, essentially creating an environment where only pro-GW papers were peer reviewed. Hence the argument that pro-GW advocates state that the majority of peer reviewed papers support GW

3. That these scientists discussed ways to avoid Freedom of Information requests to keep data to themselves so anti-GW scientists couldn’t review or criticise. They have discussed illegally deleting emails and data to avoid FoI requests, and in fact have lost all their original data on temperature records which were used in the IPCC reports. It now appears that they may have deliberately deleted this data to avoid criticisms.

4. That these scientists have deliberately manipulated data, only shown certain sections of data in graphs, and attempted to remove or alter periods of history (the medieval warming period) that did not agree with their point of view.

5. The existence of the HARRY_READ_ME.txt file and the model code itself. This has not hit the press in a big way just yet, but it exposes a complete lack of control over data, manipulation of data inside the model, complete confusion as to how the model works and what data is being used. This is supposed to be the “gold standard” of climate research, yet it appears they have no idea what is going on.

There’s more to it than that, but there’s a start.

These are the scientists whose work is determining the economic future of the world. Whether or not man made GW is real, the entire IPCC report is now being called into question. Its credibility has been destroyed, and scientists and politicians from both sides are starting to agree only a full and transparent review of the data will absolve the CRU of fraud.

[Fev]

This will fail horribly and probably end up blowing up in their faces(or blowing up a whole country)

That money which will be channeled into third world countries will just end up lining the pockets of each and every official and dictator. The countries will stay the same, the poorer will get poorer and the richer will get richer - but they will also have more violence over control over the money which is coming into the country as well as bigger and better ways to carry out that violence. With the amount of extra money they will be receiving it wouldn't surprise me if someone got a hold of a nuke or two from the old soviet union...

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

I guess what he is trying to argue that our grandfathers fought to maintain the independence of Australia from foreign control (Japanese/Nazi fascism). Now we are facing another threat, but one that isn’t materialised in a military invasion. Instead it is one of economic control.

From what I understand, the Copenhagen agreement basically wants 0.7% of the first world’s GDP (Gross Domestic Product), I’ve read about $7 billion a year, every year, from Australia. This money will be given to the United Nations, where they will do with it what they see fit. Much of this money will be given to third world nations. It will also give the UN the power to punish any country who does not meet reduction targets via more payments to the UN.

The UN or its members and representatives were not elected by anyone in this country. Hence we are handing over a portion of control over our industries and economy to a non-elected governing body. It gives the UN economic power to essentially control how much everything will cost here in Australia.

So I can see the link. Control over our economy is control over our country. Our Grandfathers fought to keep Australia controlled by an elected government. This agreement will take control from our government, and hence our hands as citizens of this country, and place it into a non-democratically determined governing body.

The whole CRU/climategate affair has really thrown a big question mark over the credibility of climate change science. For those who haven’t been following closely, here is basically what has happened;

The East Anglia Climatic Research Unit (CRU) is a government funded, university based research group in the UK. They are a leading body on climate change science and holders of a great deal of climate records (temperatures, rainfall, etc). The data they have and the models they created feature very heavily in the IPCCs report on climate change, which has determined the UN’s and the US EPA’s stance on whether CO2 is a dangerous pollutant and contributor to climate change. This stance is what guides our own government and other around the world on the need to implement an ETS.

The CRU was hacked last week (or possibly leaked from an internal source), and a large amount of emails, data, code and documents were released on the net. From what I have read, and many have commented, (from both pro- and anti- GW scientists) it brings the whole schemozzle into question. Perhaps not whether man made GW is real, but certainly how severe it may be. What has been revealed in these emails and documents are

1. That pro GW scientists colluded together to give a unified view on the impact of GW

2. That these scientists deliberately controlled the peer review process by ensuring that only selected pro-GW scientists would review their papers, that those who attempted to publish anti-GW papers were excluded from the peer review process (and hence excluded from the IPCC report), that the editors of journals which published anti-GW papers were threatened and subsequently removed, essentially creating an environment where only pro-GW papers were peer reviewed. Hence the argument that pro-GW advocates state that the majority of peer reviewed papers support GW

3. That these scientists discussed ways to avoid Freedom of Information requests to keep data to themselves so anti-GW scientists couldn’t review or criticise. They have discussed illegally deleting emails and data to avoid FoI requests, and in fact have lost all their original data on temperature records which were used in the IPCC reports. It now appears that they may have deliberately deleted this data to avoid criticisms.

4. That these scientists have deliberately manipulated data, only shown certain sections of data in graphs, and attempted to remove or alter periods of history (the medieval warming period) that did not agree with their point of view.

5. The existence of the HARRY_READ_ME.txt file and the model code itself. This has not hit the press in a big way just yet, but it exposes a complete lack of control over data, manipulation of data inside the model, complete confusion as to how the model works and what data is being used. This is supposed to be the “gold standard” of climate research, yet it appears they have no idea what is going on.

There’s more to it than that, but there’s a start.

These are the scientists whose work is determining the economic future of the world. Whether or not man made GW is real, the entire IPCC report is now being called into question. Its credibility has been destroyed, and scientists and politicians from both sides are starting to agree only a full and transparent review of the data will absolve the CRU of fraud.

Thank you.

Saved me doing it and I appreciate it.

Seriously this issue is HUGE.

It is not about politics. It is about FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY which you are about to lose.

It is the thin edge of the wedge for One World Government

I will never vote for either of those two parties again unless there is some sense very quickly and this ETS is squashed before it becomes L A W.

If Rudd signs in Copenhagen we are comitted FOREVER and it does not matter what Australians vote, the UN gets control.

The only way out is if the other developed countries who were stupid enough to sign it as well allow us to leave the agreement combined with the "under developed" countries who would never say no to billions yearly from YOUR TAXES

Put simply, Petrol, Eelctricity, Gas and Food will be at higher prices than you could ever imagine
.
People will lose their jobs by the thousands.

Business will disappear under the extra taxes.

And for what?
NOTHING.

National Party or someone PLEASE RUN IN EVERY ELECTORATE

NO Extra Tax System and Border Control

You will win Government and we can be rid of thsse imposters immediately

It s the only way we will get our democracy back.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS

Sorry mate, but lets call a spade a spade..

[TUF_302]

What we need is someone with a passion for cars in charge of the place, A PM thats a Rev Head lol!

[qwiksix]

I think Mr Brooksy makes sense in his comment about both camps having vested interests.

Personally, what I don't like is that the government is basically creating a tax on a very tenuous basis. It's no longer about how much you earn (income tax), or how much you spend (gst), it's about some possible link to a possible output (CO2) that possibly affects the atmosphere at an unspecified time in the future.

An interesting way to think about this is what would everyone think if instead of an ETS, they simply raised the income tax by, say 10%. Or jacked up GST to 15%. There's no real reason to have a new tax to cover an payment to other countries. We pay billions in aid already to other less fortunate countries, and not because of global warming.

So, will we get a refund if the levels go down?
(I think that's highly unlikely as I believe that the ridiculous levels they are talking about will not make any difference anyways. This means that they have an easy way to increase the tax in the future "Oh no! It's not enough, you need to pay us more money to save the world!". It's design to failed, but that's a topic for another day).

Overall, I think this sets a dangerous, illogical precedent for something that cannot be substantiated.

Can anyone mention anything that isn't taxed anymore? What will the next new tax after this be on?

ws

[divine_afg]

Walt Kowalski and KingNothing - You guys sound really passionate and informed about this Issue.

Got any Solutions ?

Easy to blame "our" Leaders Yet we don't even know who the Devil really is. ( I Frankly don't care and support any of them, I vote for whom ever has the right policies at the and if they change colors after well .....)

Why isn't any Scientist or Government in the world opposing this issue with such passion as you guys?

Why isn't this being debated and Citizens not asked for their opinions ?

............ Too many questions no Fair Dinkum answers.

[onfire]

You're correct calling Climate Change a religion. And what is religion you ask? A tool to keep power men, powerful.

However, the fact it.. most of us who are passionate about this topic, are really only passionate about one thing. Disguised behind disgust and skepticism, it's really about paying extra money. If the Goverment were to quietly factor in $7 billion a year into it's budget to give to the UN thanks to either a higher GST or tax rate, most of us would care less. And thats the truth.

The said vehicle in question, Climate Change is the killer. It's an ideology a majority of the average Joe population disagrees with. And thats where the problem lies. If a world wide initiative were to exist consisting of G20 or G8 funding to try to solve all the world's problems, and climate change being a much less significant issue on the agenda, it would be celebrated and praised for its effort.

[Charliewool]

The writings on the wall that this thread will be closed due to T&Cs Re: politics etc...
However, the importance, or rather, the ramifications of the ETS, Copenhagen, and who has the googlies to stand up against it can NOT be underestimated!
This is NOT another Y2K or unseen terrorists ready to invade.. It is REAL, It is NOW, and if it goes ahead, then it DOES directly affect us as car enthusiasts!
You guys scoffing... Have a damn good read what this scheme actually involves!!!
I see Turnbull is as good as gone and half the Libs are crossing the floor over this... and bloody Good on them!!.... Someone NEEDS to stand up!
End of rant

[yetchh]

it certainly is a**** up state of afairs.. i bet Margret thatcher never thought her climate change argument would ever get this big.. heres a couple of links

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=113219

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpWa7VW-OME
theres 8 or 9 parts to the second one..

[gtfpv]

alas . all is ok , i'm saving the world from my house, we now have 3 council bins , we can seperate the plastics, the paper and the bio house waste . every little bit helps , i have planted 3 trees in the backyard, and now we shop at ING instead of woollies, we have purchased and are fitting 1/2 flush toilets, and have converted to green electricity, if most australians done this , i'm sure the temperature would probably stabalise a little around the globe and sea levels would stop rising , it's quite easy really . and worth an extra 50 bucks a week in my opinion if we can save the planet.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

One thing I have noticed recently too when talking about climate change is that ultimately we have not been keeping records on this planet long enough to say either "yes we are effecting the climate with our polution" or "no we are just in a part of the earths natural cycle".

I think a lot of the scientist fuelling the fire in this whole issue should start talking to a few geologist's - because the whole history they need to back up their arguments is in the ground. And that shows that the earth goes through warm and cold periods, after all it is a living thing. So I agree with them in that this so called warming is cyclic as is drought and floods.

[Falcon Coupe]

I see the issue as effecting the world not just Australia, the topic warrants mature discussion, any off topic posts or jokes about the subject shall be removed.

[DJL351]

The whole ETS/GW/World Government stuff has been going on for ages now.

I'll do what I can to lower my 'carbon footprint' (I hate the word) for my son, on the off chance, that they are right and this is the big 'issue' they are making it out to be - however, my savings would be a very small drop in the ocean compared to others out there. (talking government and business mainly)
I'd love to solar panels on the roof - but I don't have the cash (even with the rebates being offered) but when you see a government building with half it's lights on at night.... you wonder what is the point?

Had my pay review this week - got offered 2% more.
Public transport prices went up about 4.5%.
Carpark costs at work are up 10%.
Rates went up.
Food prices through the roof.
Fuel - stable but high
House loan - lets not go there.

We are currently a single income with a 13 week old - it's fun to say the least.
I could ask the misses to go back to work - but then there is the cost of daytime childcare. (my god)
The estimated rises to Gas & Power would see us living in the car for sure.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

alas . all is ok , i'm saving the world from my house, we now have 3 council bins , we can seperate the plastics, the paper and the bio house waste . every little bit helps , i have planted 3 trees in the backyard, and now we shop at ING instead of woollies, we have purchased and are fitting 1/2 flush toilets, and have converted to green electricity, if most australians done this , i'm sure the temperature would probably stabalise a little around the globe and sea levels would stop rising , it's quite easy really . and worth an extra 50 bucks a week in my opinion if we can save the planet.

To bad "green energy" means the power company just buys "carbon credits" with your money, its still generated by that nice coal powerplant. Even if every Australian did something towards the country's output, it'd still have very little effect, what would 20 million people out of 6 billion do?

Don't even bother.

[jakkes]

only just found out about this. was going to post it in the pub and found this thread I'm not impressed with whats going on!!!!!!


listen



http://2gb.com/index2.php?option=com...k=view&id=5149

[Falc'man]

I never was a fan of 'democracy'; it's one way of saying "you can do what you like, as long as you do what you're told."

I don't mind being told what to do, as long as it's NOT any organisation that is based on anarchy.

Originally Posted by DJL351

The whole ETS/GW/World Government stuff has been going on for ages now.

All true.
Except for one thing; We only become stuffed when we decide to give up on thinking for ourselves, and/or believe everything shoved down our throats by this new world disorder.

[bingoTE50]

Watch Mad Max 1 & 2 ....what a prophetic bit of movie making .
The underlying message that resources will run out and anarchy will reign...
If Global Warming is the real deal......hold on ,because China let alone India have not really entered the main game....they ( China) have in the pipeline many coal powered power plants ,they are the quickest growing motor market on the planet.
I don't know about World Orders or alliances. Wouldn't the constitution have to be changed? Just as well we didn't vote for a republic...God Save the Queen I say ,cause nothing will save the Governor General....lol...

[xy500]

Originally Posted by divine_afg

Why isn't any Scientist or Government in the world opposing this issue with such passion as you guys?

Why isn't this being debated and Citizens not asked for their opinions ?

if you actually took a look you would find there is quite a few...