“Asking for a friend” - Uninsured not-at-fault Crash

[Citroënbender]

My E46 piloting mate, got cleaned up mid-roundabout by someone entering without looking.

1. He’s an idiot for being uninsured. I’m personally quite annoyed, as I’d leaned on the goodwill of members here to source NOS/OEM parts for the car, which is almost certainly a financial write-off.

2. Is there a well-worn path for legal representation to assist someone in this position, to recover some of their loss (noting the event is in NSW)?

Any useful pointers would be appreciated. I feel like a shepherd to the lunatic fringe this last fortnight.

[arm79]

If the at fault driver is insured then just a matter of your mate lodging a claim for fair compensation for the value of the loss of the vehicle and maybe a couple of weeks rental car hire with the insurance company. They should just pay out if its reasonable.

If the at fault driver is uninsured then he will simply have to go down the NCAT path and take his chances on recovery of funds.

I've used these lawyers to represent my interests before in damage recovery. All they do is vehicle accident property loss claims, they are NOT injury ambulance chasers. If the other driver is insured and its a cut and dried "not at fault" incident they will do all the leg work at no cost to your mate. https://ahmetlawyers.com.au/

I'm sure they can operate in NSW. Worst case they might be able to point you towards a lawyer who can.

[Citroënbender]

Thanks; I couldn’t quite remember the specifics of when you’d used a legal angle before. I want to see the damage with my own eyes and be certain it tallies with his description of what happened.

Now even more worried as he’s driving my ute!

[Tonz]

is your ute insured?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by arm79

If the at fault driver is insured then just a matter of your mate lodging a claim for fair compensation for the value of the loss of the vehicle and maybe a couple of weeks rental car hire with the insurance company. They should just pay out if its reasonable.

Is there a justification for car hire if the car is a write-off? I thought it was only for while the car is being repaired?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Tonz

is your ute insured?

You bet it is! However non-nominated driver adds another $600-800 excess (can’t remember exactly).

[Citroënbender]

Looking at the damage, I believe liability was misrepresented to me, and mate is at fault.

If he was already in the roundabout, and struck by another vehicle entering, damage would be on the opposite side.

[prktkljokr]

Expensive lesson.

Its not that bad, a fender, a door shell, a little massage here, a bit of filler there and it will be like new

I did a convertible a few years back the same colour and similar damage, broke even on it after the ignition key would not turn, then the the roof stopped working, always have problems when I buy green cars

[Cav]

If both cars enter the roundabout at the same time the fault can still be with the driver "pushing" their way through.

But if you can't be bothered even insuring your own car for 3rd party coverage then perhaps your mate needs to suck it up and may be liable for the repairs to the other car if he is at fault.

Who was she anyway?

[arm79]

Originally Posted by b0son

Is there a justification for car hire if the car is a write-off? I thought it was only for while the car is being repaired?

For some reason I don't get email notifications of new replies in threads from The Bar forum, but everything else I do. Very weird.

But anyways... On my/our policies we've gotten a hire car for 2 to 4 weeks post a write off, sometimes longer, regardless of fault. Usually they want the rental to end 2 weeks after a write off decision is made. Last time that happened to us, it was a not at fault, and it took 3 weeks for the insurance to decide to write off the car and we had the rental for 6 weeks in total.

Regardless, I think there is fair justification that if you are the not at fault party the at fault side should provide you with transportation for a reasonable time post accident given they are the ones who screwed up your immediate travel needs.

[.:4:.]

So possibly irrelevant, but maybe relevant. Years ago driving to work i got can opened by a tray back ute in the work van. So not at fault. When exchanging details etc, yes i let him photo my licence but gave the company contact details as it was not my van. Got his personal details. So he was not insured and when he pled with me not to go through insurance, well, not my car, not my call.
So my then work went through their insurance and not only got the repair bill out of the bloke, being a vehicle that facilitates income also got compensation for loss of income with the van being off the road.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If he was already in the roundabout, and struck by another vehicle entering, damage would be on the opposite side.

In fairness to your mate, that would entirely depend which way around the roundabout he was going at the time.

The rule is that cars entering a roundabout must give way to all traffic already on the roundabout. It does not specify the direction of the traffic already on there, just that they have to give way to them.

[Citroënbender]

Yes, fair comment but I am confident he got the direction of rotation correct. It is a roundabout where locals sometimes charge in, as Cav alludes, but one should generally be cautious if not familiar.

PJ: How would you estimate the damage, in dollars? Removing the inner trim to access that pushed-in forward part of the quarter panel is a headache. Only structural elements affected are sill gouges and distortion of the welded portion to the lower door hinge. Rear bar needs blending, and there is existing delamination to the bonnet.

[MrEL]

Financially the car is a write off.
The only possible way I can see that your mate isn't at fault because of the damage to the right hand side and the fact the damage runs front to back , is if the other car darted out in front of him and he clipped the back of it on the way through.
That will even be a stretch to get over the line.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Yes, fair comment but I am confident he got the direction of rotation correct. It is a roundabout where locals sometimes charge in, as Cav alludes, but one should generally be cautious if not familiar.

Thinking about it after my last post... Its interesting because that damage is eerily reminiscent of the time I hit a keep left sign. The sill, the scrape and the bend in the door.

The mark on the bonnet could be the other cars side mirror as the 2 cars bumped uglies and one slide forwards or backwards during the kiss.

It is a 2 lane roundabout where someone could have merged into him or he merged into someone else? You suggest people carelessly charge into this roundabout, it seems more likely he did the charging in and collected a car already on the roundabout.

Or if its a 2 land roundabout, he entered while a car in the inner lane was merging into the outer lane. A favourite driving manoeuvre of the ****tards who live in this town, ****tards who don't seem to fathom the illegality of it.

If 2 cars met on a very narrow angle I'd expect his drivers mirror to be missing or damaged at the very least. But seeing as the damage is so low on the vehicle he's hit something on maybe a 30 to 45 deg angle to him while moving at a high rate of speed. Whatever he hit has stopped, possibly in anticipation, while his speed has kept him moving enough to do that sort of damage the length of his car.

Although I am intrigued how a plastic bumper could do that kind of damage to the leading edge of the door, I would have thought something more solid was required. But I suppose an exposed tyre of another vehicle might.

Or maybe it wasn't a roundabout at all and he turned too sharply in something like a carpark and has clipped a car or solid object on the inside.

Either way, keep an eye out for him on the Dashcam Owners FB page. He might make an appearance on there.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

PJ: How would you estimate the damage, in dollars? Removing the inner trim to access that pushed-in forward part of the quarter panel is a headache. Only structural elements affected are sill gouges and distortion of the welded portion to the lower door hinge. Rear bar needs blending, and there is existing delamination to the bonnet.

For a insurance job, its a total loss, the repair would be worth more than the car is worth, a scratch is $1000 so a whole side isn't going to be cheap.

If you have the basic gear lying around and could do the repairs yourself, I couldn't see more than $1000 in parts and materials, including repainting the bonnet, but soon as you get a panel shop involved you are paying by the hour.

Being a E46 coupe its worth from $5000 ( for a ****ter ) to $15000 tops if its a smick manual, so as a private repair its worth it, the wreck is only worth $1500 - $2000 as it sits.

Cant see you paying much more than $200 for a door shell and under $100 for a guard privately, if your lucky you could snag the panels in the right colour and only have to do a pillar, sill and quarter repair.

With the sill and 1/4 repair one of these is perfect and cheap without removing trim
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/17419391...Bk9SR8qHhbbsYQ

Here is one wrecking, Nino has the door shell listed for $80 https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/thor...-10/1305095791

[Citroënbender]

Thanks! Good spot on the parts car, just down the road as well.

I can edge and prime everything up, but with exterior paint my setup is no good for anything bigger than a wheel.

Have looked at various spotters, including the ones that use wiggle wire and eyelets, and double as a spot “shrinker”. Have also seen what happens when amateurs over-work a panel with a spotter.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Thanks! Good spot on the parts car, just down the road as well.

I can edge and prime everything up, but with exterior paint my setup is no good for anything bigger than a wheel.

Have looked at various spotters, including the ones that use wiggle wire and eyelets, and double as a spot “shrinker”. Have also seen what happens when amateurs over-work a panel with a spotter.

I always check gumtree and Facebook before I bid on a repairer, nothing better than cheap parts

I have painted full sides of cars at home in acrylic outside in the elements, a bit more work, but a bit more forgiving than 2 pac, and the neighbours don't complain about the smell like they do with 2 pac

I have 1 of those spot weld dent pullers myself at home, and I have to say its 1 of the best tool I have purchased for home, it has saved me thousands of dollars by allowing me to repair stuff that I usually would have replaced, I have used the shrinker function on it and its just as good as the more expensive gear we use at work, plus for the price its a no brainer for home use.

[Fordman1]

This is an expensive situation, and it’s not just about the BMW but the other car as well.

I would never drive a car that wasn’t insured.

You / She have hopefully learnt a lesson and things work out Ok.

[Citroënbender]

It’s not a she, it’s a mate from way back - but either way agree on the insurance pickle. My dearest is more likely to accidentally drive into a display at the bottle-o.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It’s not a she, it’s a mate from way back - but either way agree on the insurance pickle. My dearest is more likely to accidentally drive into a display at the bottle-o.

Sorry, yes understood, but like you say driving an uninsured car is pretty nuts.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by arm79

Or if its a 2 land roundabout, he entered while a car in the inner lane was merging into the outer lane. A favourite driving manoeuvre of the ****tards who live in this town, ****tards who don't seem to fathom the illegality of it.

Actually, it's not illegal to change lanes whilst on/in a roundabout IF you use your indicator appropriately. This is the one thing that those who straight-line 2 lane roundabouts tend to not bother doing, making their manoeuvre illegal.

Personally, I just don't bother. What does it save you, 2 seconds per roundabout?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Actually, it's not illegal to change lanes whilst on/in a roundabout IF you use your indicator appropriately.

AND if the lane markings allow it. We have roundabouts with solid lines leading out of the roundabout. This means stay in your lane, yet everyone cuts from inside to outside and it leads to a lot of near misses.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Thanks; I couldn’t quite remember the specifics of when you’d used a legal angle before. I want to see the damage with my own eyes and be certain it tallies with his description of what happened.

Now even more worried as he’s driving my ute!

Why are you worried if the accident wasn't his fault?

EDIT:

Just read further down, to see it might have been the 'friends' fault.

Really but I do not let anyone drive my cars. Especially friends or strangers or anyone.

[Citroënbender]

Those are risks I am mostly comfortable with.

When another mate was chronically ill, grieving his father and receiving chemotherapy, it was a privilege to be able to loan him a car. One that blended in, made him look like he was working, one that gave bouts of freedom from the worry of well-meaning family and friends. He did round off the corners a bit; in the grander scheme of things - so what?

Back to the matter central to this thread; I won’t assist someone in misrepresentation of an event, but if they’re a friend I will offer assistance where practicable to recover their position and safeguard. In this case, it’s probably buying the car off him, doing a cheap fix to flip and splitting any profit.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Those are risks I am mostly comfortable with.

When another mate was chronically ill, grieving his father and receiving chemotherapy, it was a privilege to be able to loan him a car. One that blended in, made him look like he was working, one that gave bouts of freedom from the worry of well-meaning family and friends. He did round off the corners a bit; in the grander scheme of things - so what?

Back to the matter central to this thread; I won’t assist someone in misrepresentation of an event, but if they’re a friend I will offer assistance where practicable to recover their position and safeguard. In this case, it’s probably buying the car off him, doing a cheap fix to flip and splitting any profit.

You're a better friend than most would be in this situation, CB. Good on you, mate

[Citroënbender]

Cheers for the kind words, but it’s also a moral obligation in my mind (also from Shemot/Exodus ch.23). As always, would rather be told I was doing too much than feeling I could have done more.

[Citroënbender]

Gently nudging my ducks into position. Door shell, guard, window $200 the lot. If things fall into place, I’ll edge them up on the weekend.

PJ I may PM you for E46-experienced panel tips.

[aussiblue]

I see it's in your favourite colour too; "Verdigris Green".

Sorry couldn't resist but I must say your generosity to your friends is very commendable and verging on sainthood,

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Gently nudging my ducks into position. Door shell, guard, window $200 the lot. If things fall into place, I’ll edge them up on the weekend.

PJ I may PM you for E46-experienced panel tips.

No problem, I will help as much as I can from a distance, ewwweee green cars

Did you get the bits from our Gumtree friend Nino?