Do You Think There Should Be Car/Power Laws For P Platers In W.A

[ThoR_]

Hey guys

After what fordowner posted im getting real sick of P platers hooning around. And the fact is most of the CAN`T drive and the only thing keeping them alive is the fact they think there good. The other night there was 2 P platers infront of me at the lights one in a VT SS and one in a VX SS and they both took off throwing the back around one lost it up the medium strip which was very funny and one almost lost it jammed on the brakes and slid to a stop and almost did a 180 turn.

Im thinking they really need to bring in these power laws and not power to weight because thats krap because your still allowed to have a 351 falcon in some states which is wrong. Im getting sick of these young kids especially the ones that cant drive and i think there needs to be something done about it. 1.5 litre max or something because even a SR20 Pulsar will give a commodore or falcon 6 a good run.

What do you guys think?

[The Monty]

I think power to weight ratio laws should be in place.

[Barry_v]

so you're going to help the road toll by putting bad/learning drivers in small cars that have next to no crumple zone.

when I have kids they'll be driving something with a bit of meat around it thank you.

[Force6]

Originally Posted by The Monty

I think power to weight ratio laws should be in place.

Power to weight ratios are the best solution in my opinion. Something like the 125kw/t they had in Victoria (do they still have it?). Much more realistic then a blanket ban on all V8s and forced induction, a classic example of which would be NSW P Platers can drive a VW Golf R32 but aren't allowed to drive a Golf GTI, the R32 being 'better'.

However, no matter what the laws, hoons will be hoons, and will speed no matter what the vehicle is...

[ThoR_]

Barry better than someone in a big V8 smoking it across the lights and loosing it right into you kids car? Hence the little 1.5 litre

[daz82]

I’ve got a better idea. Teach kids how to drive properly first. Then teach them how to go crazy in a responsible place. And last, teach them how to get out of sticky situations.
Then show them what happends to people who have been taught to drive properly, and still misbehave on the road.

My mum works as a nurse in a rehab hospital and I have seen what happends to idiots that can drive well or think they can drive well and still make a mistake or misjudge something.
Many of them very lucky to be alive, some quad or paraplegic, and many with at least 5 bone fractures.

When will governments learn that education is the key???
Further more, why not fund a skid pan, drag racing and circuit complex.
They could easily make money on it by charging a small fee, yearly fee etc, even make money off food stalls.

But I suppose that could only be a perfect world where governments are run by the people and are proactive, instead of defensive and over reactive.
Perfect example of this is the new P plate laws being introduced in NSW and Vic is: “Yes you can drive a Golf R32, but you cant drive the slower and safer for novice drivers GTi.”

Remember we vote them in, we can vote them out.

[Falcon_Phill]

No. And you wouldnt have liked it when you were on your p's if your family only had one car that was a V8. Its an inconvenient, its ridiculous, and its not the cars fault. What danger is the car without an idiot driver in it? Let me crash into you with a 4cyl car and see if theres much difference.

How about some more police and driver training that is made compulsory instead of banning cars for people who have not yet commited any offence. Im sick of these stupid laws being brought in.

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by daz82

I’ve got a better idea. Teach kids how to drive properly first.

Great idea! It's been talked about for years now... but how do we work out what is the "proper" way?

Originally Posted by daz82

Then teach them how to go crazy in a responsible place. And last, teach them how to get out of sticky situations.

Most males will do this at some stage... no need to "teach" it.
As for the responsible place comment. Most 18-22 year old males I've spoken to feel that the "responsible" places are less "fun". (no thrill)

Originally Posted by daz82

Then show them what happends to people who have been taught to drive properly, and still misbehave on the road.

That will not work either. The unbreakable "It will never happen to me" thoughts always win out.

[ThoR_]

Originally Posted by daz82

I’ve got a better idea. Teach kids how to drive properly first. Then teach them how to go crazy in a responsible place. And last, teach them how to get out of sticky situations.
Then show them what happends to people who have been taught to drive properly, and still misbehave on the road.

My mum works as a nurse in a rehab hospital and I have seen what happends to idiots that can drive well or think they can drive well and still make a mistake or misjudge something.
Many of them very lucky to be alive, some quad or paraplegic, and many with at least 5 bone fractures.

When will governments learn that education is the key???
Further more, why not fund a skid pan, drag racing and circuit complex.
They could easily make money on it by charging a small fee, yearly fee etc, even make money off food stalls.

But I suppose that could only be a perfect world where governments are run by the people and are proactive, instead of defensive and over reactive.
Perfect example of this is the new P plate laws being introduced in NSW and Vic is: “Yes you can drive a Golf R32, but you cant drive the slower and safer for novice drivers GTi.”

Remember we vote them in, we can vote them out.

I think they need to have more burnout pads and drag complex`s for sure and not charge an arm and a leg to get in an $6 for a 600ml coke. I agree with you.

[daz82]

Was talking to my dad about a similar topic not too long ago. He was a big rev head when he was younger, had the quickest 186 in the area. Etc etc.
He was saying that he can understand younger drivers acting just like he, and other people now his age used to act. The only difference now is that there is a lot less ‘talent’ (for lack of a better word) on the road and more cars and more traffic.
Gone are the days where you could drive like a fool within 10 kms of the city and not even see another car.

[TZENU]

Originally Posted by DJL351

As for the responsible place comment. Most 18-22 year old males I've spoken to feel that the "responsible" places are less "fun". (no thrill)

Have these guys actually raced at a legal drag strip though... ???

I know a couple of guys who had that same attitude until they raced at Calder Park and now are there most Friday nights!

[exrtnz]

Originally Posted by ThoR_

I think they need to have more burnout pads and drag complex`s for sure and not charge an arm and a leg to get in an $6 for a 600ml coke. I agree with you.

i agree with that. If there were more of these sites it would keep them off the streets , but the problem is getting the councils to approve these sites.

[knighto42]

I was going to answer yes until I saw how the option was worded "Yes I Do, They Have No Idea What They Are Doing Or How To Drive". Great way to turn it into another P-plater bashing thread.

I think power:weight restrictions are a good idea - but blanket laws covering all V8's or all turbos obviously aren't doing the job. Too many cars that aren't on the list probably should be, and too many that are on the list probably shouldn't.

[XR06T]

nope, wont help imo..

more available tracks and event centres would kerb it i rekon.. there is 1 dragstrip here, and its always full and expensive, NO driftland or similar motokhana course that is readily available. these need to be addressed i rekon.

[XR8-260]

Each car needs to be individually assessed. The average old bomb 6cyl (Eseries/VN) don't have much power. However, these cars produce significant torque to the rear wheels and don't even have traction control. These cars would probably be more dangerous to an the inexperienced driver than some more powerful modern cars such as the VW golf R32 etc. Power to weight isn't always everything.

[XR-351]

mate thats bullshit, so because some people decide to be d*ick heads with there cars all P-Platers should suffer, how would you like it if a new law said if you havnt been driving for 20 years, you cant drive a v8 because too many people with this amount of experience are being idiots...

Although id have to agree the there should definently be some restrictions and more driving courses should be compolsury but maybe instead of NO v8's rather have speed restrictors or something, its not as if you cant do a burnout, or take off quick etc with a 4cyl, you can still act like a d*ck and get people hurt either way

I guarantee everyone on here old enough to drive has surley dont a bit of a burnout or when they were younger and on their P's went alot faster then some people do now

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by daz82

I’ve got a better idea. Teach kids how to drive properly first. Then teach them how to go crazy in a responsible place. And last, teach them how to get out of sticky situations.
Then show them what happends to people who have been taught to drive properly, and still misbehave on the road.

When will governments learn that education is the key???

i agree more education

Originally Posted by daz82

Further more, why not fund a skid pan, drag racing and circuit complex.
They could easily make money on it by charging a small fee, yearly fee etc, even make money off food stalls.

but we already have this , well not the circuit

and smaller cars done actualy meen safer drivers or even less horse power after moding , who's going to police this or is it going to be i know he's dead but book im danno he modified his car

[ThoR_]

Originally Posted by exrtnz

i agree with that. If there were more of these sites it would keep them off the streets , but the problem is getting the councils to approve these sites.

The council crys about it all the time but yet they dont do anything to help :

[falzoony]

IMO it wont make any difference. a bad drivers a bad driver. no matter what car their in they will still be hoonin' around.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by falzoony

IMO it wont make any difference. a bad drivers a bad driver. no matter what car their in they will still be hoonin' around.

I doubt you'll see many hoons around if they all had to drive hyundai excels. How many times do you see two commodores dragging at the lights? How many times do you see two Daewoo matizs dragging off at the lights?

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Have these guys actually raced at a legal drag strip though... ???

I know a couple of guys who had that same attitude until they raced at Calder Park and now are there most Friday nights!

I agree. I was a P-plater until yesterday, went on to my opens today. But I thought street stuff was ok, but doing skid pan days and drag nights, well what can I say? I dont think there is anything MORE fun!! I love them. Off street stuff is way better. On the strip, you get photographers, people, timeslips, video footage, everything. Its great, it is soooo damn fun.
Its also alot cheaper. I did a bit of a slide at an intersection once, and got fined $240 for it. I go to a skid pan and can do it all day, with noone else to hurt in an environment where there is nothing to hit, for $70. To me, its cheaper and funner. Way funner.

[Force6]

Originally Posted by 3

I doubt you'll see many hoons around if they all had to drive hyundai excels. How many times do you see two commodores dragging at the lights? How many times do you see two Daewoo matizs dragging off at the lights?

So you're saying that if you took those two hoons out of their Commys and put them in Daewoos they would never speed, or drag, again? That just doesn't make sense mate. The very reason you dont see people dragging at the lights in a Daewoo is because of the fact that people who have the tendency to drag at the lights DONT BUY DAEWOOS.

As I said, these people are going to speed no matter what vehicle they drive. 200km/h in a Daewoo is the same as 200km/h in a Commy, except if you crash of course.

[honer]

Originally Posted by 3

I doubt you'll see many hoons around if they all had to drive hyundai excels. How many times do you see two commodores dragging at the lights? How many times do you see two Daewoo matizs dragging off at the lights?

If thats all they had they would be doing it I can tell you now.

Just because you can't drop a phat skid in your Crapodoor at the lights, doesn't mean you can't race/speed/be a bad driver.

[FPV8U]

Having lived in Wa myself, it's fine the way it is, whether those two guys were driving VR V6 Commo's or what they have now they would have done the same thing.

Some of the nicest cars in the country are owned by young guys over there.

[XR8-260]

Originally Posted by honer

If thats all they had they would be doing it I can tell you now.

Just because you can't drop a phat skid in your Crapodoor at the lights, doesn't mean you can't race/speed/be a bad driver.

I'm saying that they would be less inclined to speed if they had a slow car. A hoon with a V8 would most likely take on everything he sees at the lights. He wouldn't do that in a Daewoo matiz - common sense. He could if he wanted do, but would he want to? I don't think so. He'll end up looking like an idiot and everybody would laugh at him.

[Nashy86]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

when I have kids they'll be driving something with a bit of meat around it thank you.

thats exactly why I'm in a falcon!

more off street complexes are the way to go, if any restrictions on vehicles for p platers then it has to be power to weight, its the only sensible way, and the only way to enable us to drive big bodied cars that actually have crumple zones!

[DJL351]

Originally Posted by TZENU

Have these guys actually raced at a legal drag strip though... ???

I know a couple of guys who had that same attitude until they raced at Calder Park and now are there most Friday nights!

Yeah, most have had a go at the Motorplex.

Thing is, these kids are killing themselves on country roads too.

WA had a long weekend this weekend just gone and a group of "club cars" took off down south for the weekend.
Some great roads, at great speeds and not one issue.
Coming home, we had three near misses because of three idiots not paying attention to the road or traffic around them.

eg 1. Overtaking lane 1 - 5 XR/FPV type vehicles stay right to overtake two cars and a Milk Tanker.
The tanker was half way up the overtaking lane, but we knew we'd get him in time.
Overtake first car, no issues, it stayed left and then dropped in behind us. (drafting)
Second car was about 40 metres short of the tanker, in the left lane, "cruising".
As I, lead car of our group, draw level with the rear of the second car, it pulled right and attempted to overtake tanker.
(vehicle had been doing about 90-100km/hr before changing lane)
Now, there was no idicator, nothing. when the extra lane ended, the car was only level with the rear of the first trailer and procedded to pass over a double white line, on a left hand bend with traffic coming the other way.
The tanker was forced to go far left to stop a head-on smash.

eg 2. Overtaing lane 2 - Different tanker, different area.
4wd vehicle stays right as overtaking lane starts. (The tanker was miles up the road still) With no real attempt made to accelarate, we all ducked into the left lane. (CB's are a god send on club trips)
As we did, the 4wd attempted to block us (and others).
Our therory being, if he couldn't pass the tanker, no one could.

Now, as far as I know, neither of these vehicles were being driven by a 'P' plater...
I meantioned it more to point out ALL drivers need to take more care on the roads and there is on ONE answer to it all.

[Skooter]

I've recently done a uni assignment on young driver deaths and have done heaps of research into all these things like better driver training and power to weight ratios and the results have been amazing.

For starters I don't have any figures on me but I'm not lying I got all my info from uwa, Monash and another road safety report done by an independent firm I think.

It was found that power to weight ratio limitations DO NOTHING in regards to reducing young driver deaths and injuries, in fact where they have already been introduced young driver deaths have actually increased.

Most people's fix to the problem is something like "give them more professional driver training" but again this seeming good idea is flawed as well because in most cases it will increase the 'invincibleness' feeling that most young drivers already have therefore increasing the stupid amount of **** they will do.

So before you go bagging the current licensing system have a think, if these suggestions people come up with are so good, why aren't they being used?

The general consensus is education, not so much training but education before they can even think about getting in a car. I could go on forever about this but I wont.

[falzoony]

Originally Posted by Force6

So you're saying that if you took those two hoons out of their Commys and put them in Daewoos they would never speed, or drag, again? That just doesn't make sense mate. The very reason you dont see people dragging at the lights in a Daewoo is because of the fact that people who have the tendency to drag at the lights DONT BUY DAEWOOS.

As I said, these people are going to speed no matter what vehicle they drive. 200km/h in a Daewoo is the same as 200km/h in a Commy, except if you crash of course.

Yeah thats the point I was tryin to make.

[FPV8U]

The problem is access to drag strips, for me, i have to finish work by 1pm on a friday to be able to get to calder by 5:30-6:00 just because of traffic, The night with fuel & Food included cost well $130 easy for me.

No to mention when the night finishes around 10pm i have the long drive home, but wait then they start talking about curfews again, so i'll factor accomodation into that now we are talking well over $200 for the night.

It's starting to become more of a task then fun isn't it?

We need more Drag/Motorsport complex's, that are easier to get too, thats the bottom line, untill then, the government can stop whinging as they are doing nothing to help the situation.