Who gets what when we buy petrol

[MoreHPformyXR6]

In Australia, the percentage break up shows that from $1.39 per litre, 50.9c goes in tax, the actual product cost is 77.9c and the retail margin 11.1c.
(note state goverment gets 10% gst receipts) I note in the US @ present its about $1.03 per litre $AUS & the govt take less than 20c in the litre & retail margin is 4.2c.
So the govt keeps saying they can do nothing but they can if the just reduce there take.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

In Australia, the percentage break up shows that from $1.39 per litre, 50.9c goes in tax, the actual product cost is 77.9c and the retail margin 11.1c.
(note state goverment gets 10% gst receipts) I note in the US @ present its about $1.03 per litre $AUS & the govt take less than 20c in the litre & retail margin is 4.2c.
So the govt keeps saying they can do nothing but they can if the just reduce there take.

Beside the fact that the states have a population of over 250million and we only have 20million you can see why the government take so much tax (yet you'd expect that they would use it too actually fix the roads).
But with the large surplus the government has and now that the government says that they paid our foreign debt you would think they would at least reduce the excise about 10c/litre to give the motorists some slack.

[cupic]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Beside the fact that the states have a population of over 250million and we only have 20million you can see why the government take so much tax (yet you'd expect that they would use it too actually fix the roads).
But with the large surplus the government has and now that the government says that they paid our foreign debt you would think they would at least reduce the excise about 10c/litre to give the motorists some slack.

The Govt still charges 3X3 through state taxes
Petrol will now be expensive weather its hurricane season terroist plot or govt greed we all have to live with it

To the Oil Barons Caltex Shell BP etc .When is enough enough,profits eats all of us .my thinking is one day matching US profits currently @ $135,000,000,000 thats US dollars


:eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :alien2:

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Beside the fact that the states have a population of over 250million and we only have 20million you can see why the government take so much tax (yet you'd expect that they would use it too actually fix the roads).
But with the large surplus the government has and now that the government says that they paid our foreign debt you would think they would at least reduce the excise about 10c/litre to give the motorists some slack.

They wont give us a break in the cost of fuel, they have the next lot of election promises to fund. :

[paulvdb]

Originally Posted by cupic

The Govt still charges 3X3 through state taxes

That 3x3 miraculously changed to 4x4 then 5x5 etc...

The Government is addicted to petrol and gambling taxes.

[ON_DUBS]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

They wont give us a break in the cost of fuel, they have the next lot of election promises to fund. :

they have the next lot of election promises to MAKE. if they leave the fuel alone, they can attract votes by promising action

[AWD Chaser]

The government will lower it's pertrol excise when they ban smoking....

[JPFS1]

federal gov have a fixed 38c/ltr excise on fuel. Then there is state GST revenue of 10% which is calculated with the excise included (the tax on a tax). Then there are various duty taxes, such as import duty when oil is imported for blending purposes during the production process. It's complex and not easy just to say cu excise. If anything, they should calculate GST on the price excluding excise. That would save us almost 4c straight away!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

In Australia, the percentage break up shows that from $1.39 per litre, 50.9c goes in tax, the actual product cost is 77.9c and the retail margin 11.1c.
(note state goverment gets 10% gst receipts) I note in the US @ present its about $1.03 per litre $AUS & the govt take less than 20c in the litre & retail margin is 4.2c.
So the govt keeps saying they can do nothing but they can if the just reduce there take.

Where were you 5years ago when the government decided to fix the excise? Or would you prefer that the excise remained indexed to the CPI - because you'd be paying about 50c excise alone if that where the case.

But seriously - why is it only a problem now? Why werent you demanding less tax when fuel was 70c/L?

There has been a movement in the price of the resource and you expect the government to do something about it? Yes?

OK, let's drop the excise. Fuel goes back to $1/L. Oh, oil is approaching $80, pump prices are back at $1.40. Now what?

Removing the tax is a short term solution to a long term problem.

Oh, you wanna talk about fuel excise comparisons?

UK pays 50.9 PENCE per litre. Netherlands - the dutch government receives 66% of the price of a litre of fuel. Japan, germany (and most other EU countries) all have much higher fuel excise that Australia. So why not mention them the next time you are quoting USA petrol prices as well?

[Lightning Strike GT]

The reason why we all compare to the US prices is that the mighty "Green Back" is the dominant dollar in the world - all hail the yanks ing_sm

[eav8]

didn't the government say that only help they could give was to give middle wage earners a tax break?...How does that help low income earners..eg those like myself who don't earn enough to pay tax let alone try and claim any of it back.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

OK, let's drop the excise. Fuel goes back to $1/L. Oh, oil is approaching $80, pump prices are back at $1.40. Now what?

Removing the tax is a short term solution to a long term problem.

Thats a good point, maybe the extra income that the government receives should be going to developing efficient bio fuel engines.
If ford got a grant to get the I6 to Euro 4 emission standard levels than maybe they could get a grant to the thing running E85. At least when oil sky rockets there will be relieve for motorists.

[deesun]

Fed Gov gets this
State Gov gets that
Oil Company gets the other
Retailer gets 4/5ths of Flock all
And the customer,you and me get : again

[ED Classic]

Interesting the Oil Comparies are making record profits, Their share prices are at records and their executives are all been paid out. Trouble is the Accc investigates it here and the oil companies here blame it on overseas and the ones over there blame it on the ones here when they get investigated.

[GRNKPR]

i normally get a pack of chewies when i get petrol and a paper

[Group C]

I get RIPPED OFF when I buy petrol...

Isn't it wonderful to know that Australia's petrol is refined from oil that is taken from our own backyard, yet the price is controlled by what happens to oil that's taken from the middle east, and what the yanks pay for it??
And the local oil companies say they AREN'T profitering... Come on.

seriously tho...

Originally Posted by JEM

(the tax on a tax).

I always thought that 'taxing a tax' was ILLEGAL, especially since the GST was introduced. Stand corrected if I'm wrong.

If so, good to see the Gov. is leading the way by example.

What example is that, you ask??
The "Don't do as I DO, do as I SAY" example...

[Smoked]

Originally Posted by Group C

I always thought that 'taxing a tax' was ILLEGAL, especially since the GST was introduced. Stand corrected if I'm wrong.
...

Petrol is the only place inwhich it occurs. It's not illegal, but generally it shouldnt happen.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Petrol is the only place inwhich it occurs. It's not illegal, but generally it shouldnt happen.

wouldn't cigarettes and alcohol also be included?

[gozza]

when i petrol i usually get a pack of smokes and a can of V

[Mark351]

fuel excise + gst on fuel = budget surplus which funds tax cuts to pay the increase in petrol which equals more gst = bigger surplus, etc...

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Interesting the Oil Comparies are making record profits, Their share prices are at records and their executives are all been paid out. Trouble is the Accc investigates it here and the oil companies here blame it on overseas and the ones over there blame it on the ones here when they get investigated.

Not really. But sort of!

Oil is sold on a free market. I you not. It's completely deregulated - one of the last free markets in the world. The sellers do not dictate the price. Yes - the current prices are advantageous to their financial position... but short of some sort of miracle/divine intervention there is nothing they can do to reduce the price as it is the MARKET which determines the price.

Guess what. You're a participant in the market! Yes - you, as a consumer of oil products are more to blame than those who sell it!

Two weeks ago, gold was trading at $644 USD per ounce. I didnt see a huge outcry against the companies that benefit from high resource prices??? Same could be said for coal at the moment as well IIRC.

Isn't it wonderful to know that Australia's petrol is refined from oil that is taken from our own backyard, yet the price is controlled by what happens to oil that's taken from the middle east, and what the yanks pay for it??
And the local oil companies say they AREN'T profitering... Come on

Let's go through this again.

An oil company is pumping oil in australia. Now - the global market is paying $75 per barrel. This is not some evil conspiracy between john howard and OPEC. This is the going rate for a barrell of oil.

Now... what price should they sell it to australian refineries for? The going rate? Or at a lower price - when every other country in the world is paying the going rate?

How many times must it be said? It's a global commodity. Its completely irrelevant WHERE it comes from. Why dont we f--k the global market off and look after ourselves? Because our "love affair" with cars like the falcon and the commodore means we are only 70% self sufficient in our oil-product needs.

Seriously. Get over this notion that you are being ripped off. You are paying the same as everyone else in the world. The USA has lower tax on their fuel. Wow. They also have non existent public healthcare and a poor welfare system.

Perhaps you'd prefer a european model where more than 60% of the pump price is tax? Although their unemployment benefits are fantastic.

Or would you prefer to have your cake and eat it too? Yes - that's the Australian way! Not that anyone will even bother reading this because people only hear what they want to hear!!!!

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

fuel excise + gst on fuel = budget surplus which funds tax cuts to pay the increase in petrol which equals more gst = bigger surplus, etc...

The "windfall" on the GST charged on the excise has been calculated at $1.5billion. Chump change - considering public healthcare alone costs something along the lines of $55 billion.

But here's the thing.

38.1cpl excise. This attracts 10% GST - 3.81cpl.

The GST charged on the excise is FIXED - because the excise doesnt move. The total GST on a litre of fuel obviously increases with the price - but the "windfall" on the 'tax on tax' remains FIXED. And if people are buying less fuel - will actually start to FALL.

And those who CARE TO REMEMBER will of course note that the excise was FIXED when the GST was brought in. That was the deal. They stopped indexing the excise to the CPI and fixed it at 38.1cpl, because they knew there was a tax-on-tax effect.

Or would everyone prefer to give up the GST on petrol and go back to indexing the excise to the CPI - prob a 3% to 4% increase per annum over the next few years.

Or again - does everyone prefer to have their cake and eat it to? Or better yet - if petrol went back to $1 p/L tomorrow - would everyone forget this whole tax-on-tax business? Because i thought it was the concept of a tax-on-a-tax which outraged everyone... but only started hearing the complaints when petrol prices hit their recent highs??????????????????????

[JPFS1]

I glad you've got the time to reply in such a fashion 4.9. Saves me from doing it.

You are spot on.

[Mark351]

I think that's a fairly simplistic view of the oil market.

Take Venezuela. They are also a high oil producer (very sulphur rich though), supply 15% of the US total oil imports, (the US purchases 60% of Venezuelans oil output).

Their President Chavez is enforcing a 2001 law that imposes significantly higher royalties from foreign companies extracting oil inside Venezuela. So, a country is affecting oil prices by stinging companies that drill/process inside it. Secondly, Venezuela is threatening to cut back US exports, instead looking to sell to China. This also affects the oil price.

Middle East countries have been affecting oil prices by increases/decreases in production for years. The market is not as free as the name suggests...

[Falcon Coupe]

The Herald sun today stated that the King of Saudi Arabia has just reduced the price too 21c a litre, he says "it will be good for the people", this is understandable as they produce thier own oil, what i find strange is we produce much of our own, but we are linked to world prices, why would Saudi Arabia not be the same ?

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

I think that's a fairly simplistic view of the oil market.

Take Venezuela. They are also a high oil producer (very sulphur rich though), supply 15% of the US total oil imports, (the US purchases 60% of Venezuelans oil output).

Their President Chavez is enforcing a 2001 law that imposes significantly higher royalties from foreign companies extracting oil inside Venezuela. So, a country is affecting oil prices by stinging companies that drill/process inside it. Secondly, Venezuela is threatening to cut back US exports, instead looking to sell to China. This also affects the oil price.

Its easy to simplify the oil market because there's a lot to it. Havent even addressed speculative futures trading on the NYMEX merc exchange lol. KISS principles tho or else we'll be here all night...

Venezuela throws another spanner into the works by having a very special grade of oil with highly desirable fractions - oil which it trades directly for larger quantities of lower grades of oil to sell to the export market (to simplify the way it works).

However... Oil pumped from venezuela is sold on the same market. The royalties imposed by el presidente affect the oil comapny's bottom line - not the price in which is sold on the "international market" (i.e. the price they sell it to uncle sam).

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

The Herald sun today stated that the King of Saudi Arabia has just reduced the price too 21c a litre, he says "it will be good for the people", this is understandable as they produce thier own oil, what i find strange is we produce much of our own, but we are linked to world prices, why would Saudi Arabia not be the same ?

Saudi Arablia and most OPEC member nations provide MASSIVE subsidies to the people of their country. Our government charges us tax on petrol - their government pays for a lot of their petrol.

Notionally, their fuel is worth the same as ours (pre excise, pre tax). But not only do they not have tax - they have subsidies meaning the people pay less for fuel than what it costs to produce.

Why? I imagine its because they have that kind of money to waste lol. Oh... and many people in the country probably cant afford 21cpl, let alone a car to put it in.

[Mark351]

Which is why Venezuela is next on George Bush Jnr's "countries to invade because of oil" list - if Iran isn't invaded/bombed first. It just won't attract as much attention as Iran, because Venezuela doesn't have the nuclear capacity Iran does, though Iran has offered to share it with them

'Tis true, the multitude of factors surrounding oil trading makes it a very complex entity to understand, suffice to say that if you don't like it - ride a bike! (Or do what Sweden's King did - just drive away without paying!)

[f6xer]

I stiil think the government could buget a exise decrease to help ease the pain at the pump. I own a small buisseness and I am at a knife edge when comes to increasing my prices. If every buissiness is feeling the heat then price hikes across the board are likely. This inturn will push up intrest rates as well. Next thing you know the average working Aust. wont be able to pay for their morgage let alone fuel in their car.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by f6xer

I stiil think the government could buget a exise decrease to help ease the pain at the pump. I own a small buisseness and I am at a knife edge when comes to increasing my prices. If every buissiness is feeling the heat then price hikes across the board are likely. This inturn will push up intrest rates as well. Next thing you know the average working Aust. wont be able to pay for their morgage let alone fuel in their car.

The governement is now giving 38 c/pl rebate to comapnies that use fuel for their business. This includes diesel, natural gas, petrol....