Work at Manildra site suspended after CFMEU alleges 457 visa abuse

[saber]

Originally Posted by http://www.southcoastregister.com.au/story/2831710/foreign-workers-underpaid-living-in-worrigee-dosshouse-says-union/?cs=202

TWENTY-NINE overseas workers involved in metal construction at the Manildra site on Bolong Road, Bomaderry are being paid under-award rates and living in cramped conditions in the equivalent of a dosshouse, according to representatives of the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union, Dave Kelly and Dave Curtain.

Mr Kelly said there were 13 Chinese nationals and 16 Filipino nationals working on 457 visas for overseas nationals. Mr Kelly also said they were working on metal construction projects, not building construction.

“They are employed by a Chinese company called Chiatung Development Corporation.

“While the Filipino workers have a good command of English, the Chinese workers seem to have no English at all.”

If the information the union representatives received is accurate the workers are being paid the equivalent of $20,000 a year for 10-11 hours’ work a day, six to seven days a week.

“Out of that they’re being charged around $13,000 per annum for board and lodging. The Chinese workers get paid annually in Chinese currency, while the Filipino workers are receiving about $A1180 a month.”

The South Coast Register visited the house in Worrigee where all the workers are staying in cramped conditions, sleeping in bunks or on mattresses on the floor. The main house has only one toilet.

“It’s a bloody shame this has been allowed to happen,” said Mr Curtain. “If we could find all this out after a two-minute visit, why couldn’t Manildra or government agencies like WorkCover NSW?”
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Mr Kelly said after discussions with Chiatung’s Australian representative Alan Sinclair, all productive work on site has stopped until discussions on safety issues are completed between Mr Sinclair and the CFMEU in Wollongong on Thursday.

“There are no safety instructions or forms in Chinese for the Chinese workers,” Mr Kelly said.

“They have one translator to help out, but the workers are employed on two different sites.”

When contacted by the South Coast Register, Mr Sinclair said he was not sure what was going on onsite.

“I’m Chiatung Taiwan’s representative in Australia, but all directions and instructions to the workforce come from Chiatung Taiwan.”

He said the company had people onsite to assist in safety matters.

Mr Kelly said that although the Filipino workers possessed their own contracts, the contracts for the Chinese workers were kept in China.

Under 457 Visas, overseas workers must have a minimum level of English and be paid the equivalent of what an Australian worker would receive in the same occupation in the same workplace.

Gilmore MP Ann Sudmalis was shocked. “I believe companies should advertise extensively in Australia before being allowed to employ anyone under a 457 Visa, especially in areas like Gilmore where unemployment is relatively high.”

The Register sighted one of the worker's contracts. From an annual salary of $53,900, the follwing deductions are made: $17,500 for Australian taxes, $1260 for insurance, $13,000 for accommodation, $7940 for food and transport. That's a total deduction of $39,700, leaving them $14,200 for the year's work.

The worker said some of his colleagues had been on site since October 16, 2014.

South Coast MP Shelley Hancock said, “If it’s true I am really concerned about the conditions for workers. This matter needs to be investigated.”

The Register has sought comment from Manildra but is yet hear back from the company.

Thoughts?

Thought I’d post this article up, as I see some of the same practices occur here in the UAE (where I’m currently working).
The unsafe work practices and living conditions (10 men sleeping within the same room is common, especially those who work in factories, taxi drivers ect)…

Would hate to see Australia turn adopt this :(

On another note…with a wage of approx $54k, why are locals being employed??

MODS: Please remove thread if inappropriate.

[Itsme]

Personally I think 457 visas should be outlawed but sad reality is that Libs & labour support this policy & naturally some companies will rort the system.

[Fordman1]

Free trade agreements will lead to more of this ....

[Russ]

Can't say it surprises me one bit, the majority of work that seems to be done in the Shoalhaven area (especially) is almost always given to the cheapest contract available but I'm sure there's plenty more of this scenario going on all over the country :(

[GasoLane]

I've only known 2 people that were on 457 visa's (both are now naturalised Aussies and love it) and they're still good friends of mine, who we often have over for dinner.

They were brought here from Europe when there was, and still is, a shortage of heavy vehicle drivers.

Both of these guys drove the same Trucks as me, did the same run, did the same work, got the same pay and paid the same tax.
The TWU tried to say that European drivers would get lost and drive on the wrong side of the road.........Obviously those Union leaders have never been to Europe.

The thing's that struck me was that they had to have Private Medical Insurance, and if they wanted their kids to go to a public school it was going to cost about them $6,000 per child a year.


(Both of these drivers still think that it's great that they can drive for 12hrs and stay in the same country )

[2011G6E]

Wasn't aware we were running out of unemployed Australians so had to import foreign workers..

Or...and I know this is a radical idea, so stay with me...Australian employers could try the old fashioned and really weird idea of training people from bloody scratch to fill positions. That way you end up with a workforce who has some loyalty to the person who has spent the time and effort to train them up, rather than just ask for fully trained people straight up.
Odd idea I know, but could be worth a try...?

[nuthin' fancy]

I've only got three problems with that story:

I don't trust Manildra to tell the truth

I really don't trust the CFMEU to tell the truth

I don't trust Fairfax to report the truth.

[Uncle Niceguy]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Wasn't aware we were running out of unemployed Australians so had to import foreign workers..

Or...and I know this is a radical idea, so stay with me...Australian employers could try the old fashioned and really weird idea of training people from bloody scratch to fill positions. That way you end up with a workforce who has some loyalty to the person who has spent the time and effort to train them up, rather than just ask for fully trained people straight up.
Odd idea I know, but could be worth a try...?

funny you mention this idea mate, cause l speak good english am fit and all the other good things yet you know something funny? l can't find or acquire a fulltime job in Construction, Hospitality, and all the other big ones, even applied for petrol station positions and still didn't get the job, but hey what do l care l don't need the work cause people from other countries are far worse off and deserve the job! can't even get an apprenticeship or entry-level govco job.

[MercurySilver]

those damn unions
ruining the country for everyone

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

funny you mention this idea mate, cause l speak good english am fit and all the other good things yet you know something funny? l can't find or acquire a fulltime job in Construction, Hospitality, and all the other big ones, even applied for petrol station positions and still didn't get the job, but hey what do l care l don't need the work cause people from other countries are far worse off and deserve the job! can't even get an apprenticeship or entry-level govco job.

Your handle is the clue to your problems: Nice guys finish last.

But seriously, keep at it, keep promoting yourself. Ask around here.

[Uncle Niceguy]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

Your handle is the clue to your problems: Nice guys finish last.

But seriously, keep at it, keep promoting yourself. Ask around here.

haha you got that right but hopefully this arvo l'll have news that is good to my ears regarding a job cause on wednesday l had my first chance at an interview in 2 months. If this story doesn't clue people on here as to how truly hard it is getting a job in brisbane they must be deaf.

[XBROO]

That article is wrong when they said they need a minimum level of english, all the 457 at my old work can say is 'I don't know'. Then you have to get an interpreter, which was usually one of their wives. That were aloud to come over as a secondary visa holder.

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

haha you got that right but hopefully this arvo l'll have news that is good to my ears regarding a job cause on wednesday l had my first chance at an interview in 2 months. If this story doesn't clue people on here as to how truly hard it is getting a job in brisbane they must be deaf.

Keep trying mate I'm near Brissy and got a new job in Brissy. Jobs are out there just keep looking and applying.

[saber]

Another case. This time with Irish workers.

Originally Posted by http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au

Immigration investigators have conducted a series of raids on a multi-national firm working on major Australian mining and infrastructure projects as part of one of the nation's biggest inquiries into working visa fraud.

The raids targeted the offices of Murphy Pipe & Civil (MPC), with documents and other material seized.

The firm has allegedly assisted dozens of Irish workers fraudulently obtain 457 temporary skilled and other visas to work on key national projects, including the multi-billion dollar Queensland Curtis Liquefied Natural Gas project and Western Australia's Sino Iron project.

The probe was launched in response to revelations in Fairfax Media last year about the failure of the immigration department to investigate wide-scale visa rorting on the giant projects and in a range of other sectors.
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The MPC inquiry is one of several investigations reopened in response to the Fairfax Media expose and forms part of a major and ongoing revamp of the way the department investigates alleged visa fraud.

It also raises questions about whether some of Australia's biggest infrastructure and mining players, including the company managing the Curtis LNG project, QGC, have failed to conduct thorough due diligence on the workforces supplied by sub-contractors such as MPC. QGC did not respond to questions.

The revelations have sparked fresh debate about the use of overseas workers to meet labour shortages, which the business lobby says is vital.

The federal government is considering relaxing entry requirements for short-term foreign workers in a move opposed by unions, which claim the overseas worker visa schemes cost local jobs and erode conditions.

Australian Council of Trade Unions president Ged Kearney said the action against MPC highlighted the need for reform of the visa system.

"Unions have always had concerns that employers are abusing the 457 visa program to bring in cheaper labour from overseas. Cracking down on bad employers is just a band aid solution when in fact the whole 457 visa system needs to be fixed," Ms Kearney said.

"A full Senate Inquiry into the temporary visa workforce is the only way to stop foreign workers from being exploited and to make sure employers are genuinely trying to recruit Australian workers before looking overseas."

The chief executive of the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service, Roman Quadvlieg, told Fairfax Media a new investigations division was being created to target "entities seeking to commit visa fraud here in Australia". It will also investigate transnational organised crime syndicates.

He said the new division "will allow a stronger focus and approach to border crime, whether that crime is related to attempts to circumvent physical border controls or to rort our visa system".

Immigration investigators have recently interviewed at least five whistleblowers who have worked for MPC, including two who previously contacted the immigration department about the rorting but were initially ignored or had their complaints subject to only a superficial investigation.

Immigration officers are now examining allegations that dozens of overseas workers employed by MPC may have lied about their qualifications or job role in order to get a skilled migration visa. It's understood that civil or criminal sanctions, or a ban on the company hiring foreign workers, may be a possible outcome of the probe.

MPC internal documents obtained by Fairfax Media reveal that the company knew that dozens of overseas employees had told the immigration department they would be working in skilled roles, such as a project administrator, when their actual role involved a menial or unskilled job.

Among the most alleged egregious examples of migration fraud by MPC is the company's role in continuing to sponsor a female Irish worker even though she had left the company, to help her get permanent residency. In another case, an unskilled Irish labourer submitted a handwritten resume only to have it typed up and rewritten. He was then employed on a 457 visa as a "project administrator".

The MPC case also raises questions about the sanctions regime implemented by the department. The company had been warned and previously hit with an infringement notice by the department, but this appears to have had no affect on its regard for Australia's immigration laws.

A spokesman for MPC claimed the recent raids on its premises by immigration investigators were routine and the firm "has never intentionally committed a breach of immigration laws."

The immigration department revamp has been led by a top federal police officer, Commander John Beveridge, and the new investigation team will be led by Assistant Commissioner Steve Lancaster. Immigration officers will also be trained by the federal police as part of the reforms.

The inquiry into MPC is one of the first tests of the new investigation team's operations.

Last August, Fairfax Media published leaked internal immigration files detailing the failure of the immigration department to thoroughly investigate thousands of cases of suspected visa fraud.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Wasn't aware we were running out of unemployed Australians so had to import foreign workers..

Or...and I know this is a radical idea, so stay with me...Australian employers could try the old fashioned and really weird idea of training people from bloody scratch to fill positions. That way you end up with a workforce who has some loyalty to the person who has spent the time and effort to train them up, rather than just ask for fully trained people straight up.
Odd idea I know, but could be worth a try...?

We're not we're are running out of qualified tradesmen. No one wants to train kids and last time I looked into a pre apprenticeship course as an adult it was 10k if you don't qualify for government grant. No one in their right mind would cop that on top of the pay cut they are going to get for the first 4 years.

[saber]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

We're not we're are running out of qualified tradesmen. No one wants to train kids and last time I looked into a pre apprenticeship course as an adult it was 10k if you don't qualify for government grant. No one in their right mind would cop that on top of the pay cut they are going to get for the first 4 years.

So what's the solution???

[The Yeti]

457's have there place, and if they are used properly they're great for all concerned, employee, employer and country

we have had a few hear, from our factory in Europe and Asia, we get them as they know the product well (usually from R&D or the service department) so it works well for us in terms of product knowledge and training of local people, we generally put them in Management / leading hand positions and they are earning money that's industry standard for the task, Plus we pay for partners / children to either come out with them or visit regularly, and also pay an allowance of market rent for them to find accommodation that suits them.

Out of the last 3 we have had all applied and received permanent residency and 2 still work for us with the 3rd leaving of his own free will to further his career.

What gives 457 visa's a bad name is shonks who use these purely for cheap workers and house them in battery hen like conditions

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by saber

So what's the solution???

What they are doing, getting qualified people from where ever they can.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by Mr.NiceGuy

funny you mention this idea mate, cause l speak good english am fit and all the other good things yet you know something funny? l can't find or acquire a fulltime job in Construction, Hospitality, and all the other big ones, even applied for petrol station positions and still didn't get the job, but hey what do l care l don't need the work cause people from other countries are far worse off and deserve the job! can't even get an apprenticeship or entry-level govco job.

Keep on keeping on it mate! You're young and fit, something will turn up for you - maybe not your ideal job, but something to get you started. Strangely enough it's easier to find a job once you're working and out there.

I've had a mongrel of a time working sporadically on and off the last few years. I'm 48 and have minor disabilities with my right arm and left leg after a bad motorcycle crash. I refuse to give up. Could probably go on the disability pension but I want to work. As you well know the dole pays SFA - $530 per fortnight, how anyone manages to live on that I don't know.

Good luck and all the best lad!

Cheers!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

That way you end up with a workforce who has some loyalty to the person who has spent the time and effort to train them up

What a load of rubbish. The first thing anyone with new qualifications does nowadays is scour the job ads for better paying positions. Not only do they want their employer to improve their skills, they want to hold them to ransom to use said skills. Little wonder employers don't play that game any more.

Imagine if white collar workers had the same attitudes to training .... our unis would be empty because heaven forbid one takes an interest in their own career development....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

What a load of rubbish. The first thing anyone with new qualifications does nowadays is scour the job ads for better paying positions. Not only do they want their employer to improve their skills, they want to hold them to ransom to use said skills. Little wonder employers don't play that game any more.

Imagine if white collar workers had the same attitudes to training .... our unis would be empty because heaven forbid one takes an interest in their own career development....

I paid for all my own school fees, and was the first apprentice (and then tradesman) from my ex-employer to get the A/C license and I organised and paid for it myself and set it up for the other apprentices who wanted to follow.

[BPXR6T]

Originally Posted by b0son

What a load of rubbish. The first thing anyone with new qualifications does nowadays is scour the job ads for better paying positions. Not only do they want their employer to improve their skills, they want to hold them to ransom to use said skills. Little wonder employers don't play that game any more.

Imagine if white collar workers had the same attitudes to training .... our unis would be empty because heaven forbid one takes an interest in their own career development....

Yeah, what a load of rubbish alright. You sound like my boss. We were having dinner a few weeks back and I raised how I hadn't had any career development sponsored by my employer for 7 years. He went nuts telling me how he was disgusted with my sense of entiltlement. First class knob. Withhold $10,000 from my base and add that to my package as training. It ain't rocket science. I get cheaper training, he gets current skills which haven't been learned via google. This is how my previous jobs worked, I had a $10,000 untaxed training budget every year, then sometimes my employer would kick in more. Difference between a manager who has a clue, and whatever I have now...

[stazza]

Originally Posted by b0son

What a load of rubbish. The first thing anyone with new qualifications does nowadays is scour the job ads for better paying positions. Not only do they want their employer to improve their skills, they want to hold them to ransom to use said skills. Little wonder employers don't play that game any more.

Imagine if white collar workers had the same attitudes to training .... our unis would be empty because heaven forbid one takes an interest in their own career development....

What a load of rubbish. The first thing I did when I had the opportunity to get my Crane Ticket was beg the boss to give me the time off - UNPAID - and I'd also pay for the ticket. And I did, and I have never looked back. I have since gotten 2 other crane tickets and riggers tickets and paid for it all out of my own pocket and taken time off work.

And what do you mean the employers don't play that game anymore?

You don't know squat buddy - every construction or mining job I have been on I have done days and days and hours and hours of boring inductions covering the same crap, then also a company specific working at height and confined space tickets - which I already had, but they want you to do their one which has all the same rules and regs anyway. Do you know how much it cost to hire each worker for the last project I was on? $26,000 PER PERSON. Funny thing is every candidate must be qualified and have been in the industry for 5+ years to gain the position, but then they put you through 2 weeks of pointless training and inductions that costs them an arm and a leg, but you're doing the exact same job you've done for years.

You are obviously a typical white collar worker who has the us and them mentality towards the blue collar.

[ILLaViTaR]

I don't know what's worse foreign-wise tbh. The FTA's or the fact the dollar and interest rates are dropping...

Probably the FTA's but my god as if Doncaster, Canterbury, and Camberwell weren''t ruined enough already, that John something bloke of qanda last week had the right idea when it comes to scrutinizing the FIRB.

And without getting too political... what the hell is the point spending 6b of our own money to build an east/west link that's practically offshore in Beijing? Not even 6 lanes per way would counteract the driving ability either. The business case didn't mention the 40km speed limit from Ringwood to Hoddle st.

[superyob]

Stazza, while I don't dispute your argument based on your experiences, I do think b0son has a valid point of view here: "Not only do they want their employer to improve their skills, they want to hold them to ransom to use said skills".

This is common to blue or white collar workers...

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stazza

You don't know squat buddy - every construction or mining job I have been on I have done days and days and hours and hours of boring inductions covering the same crap

Because in your line of work, something goes wrong and either huge $$$ or injury/death. In the event of the latter, WorkCover will almost certainly be wanting evidence of training. And if your current employer says 'he had experience, I assumed his previous employer covered all that', guess what WorkCover's response would be?

I agree, its massively inefficient, but really, if the government were serious about reducing red tape, they'd standardize all training, and provided you had a formal ticket, you would be assumed to be qualified and not need to undertake repeat inductions etc. That would require some forward thinking though....

You are obviously a typical white collar worker who has the us and them mentality towards the blue collar.

I have simply never understood why its ok for white collars to be expected to pay their way and get their own training through uni etc, but so many blue collars (at least at the lower end) expect to be able to have their training provided for them, and be paid while they have it.

Ok, yes, I was unfair to tar you all with the same brush, but you must surely have come across this attitude? We stopped sending our workers for training because almost every single one has used to get a foot in the door of somewhere bigger (we're a small company with no career advancement prospects). Its just not worth the investment.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

I had a $10,000 untaxed training budget every year

Its still money he has to spend. Why do you think he should spend it? Do you expect your hourly rate to go up once the training is complete? And the fact that you mentioned prior arrangements begs the question, how often have you taken your new training elsewhere within a year of receiving it? Maybe he's been burned by it before. Or maybe he's just a douche There's no shortage of managers how count every cent of the bottom line, but ignore all the waste they instigate.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by b0son

We stopped sending our workers for training because almost every single one has used to get a foot in the door of somewhere bigger (we're a small company with no career advancement prospects). Its just not worth the investment.

I just think its ironic how private industry was poaching tradesmen who went through Government owned utilities as apprentices years ago.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and they don't like it.

Private industry seems to believe its not their responsibility to train workers, maybe so, but they can solve this issue if they want to but its easier to import foreign skilled workers.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I just think its ironic how private industry was poaching tradesmen who went through Government owned utilities as apprentices years ago.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and they don't like it.

Private industry seems to believe its not their responsibility to train workers, maybe so, but they can solve this issue if they want to but its easier to import foreign skilled workers.

Is this not where most apprenticeships are done?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by superyob

Is this not where most apprenticeships are done?

Nowadays yeah (What utilities does a Government own to put apprentices on in?) but nothing compared to what it used to be, how many apprenticeships are there around now compared to 30 years ago and how many kids are fighting it out for the little that there are on offer.

Compare available apprenticeships vs companies looking for qualified tradesmen or companies looking for "3rd/4th year apprentice", they want someone else to take the hit of having a essentially useless person then poach them when they start picking up the trade.

Or even in white collar roles "3-5 years experience required and X qualifications".