What was more important, the Ford Territory or the Holden VE Commodore?

[ford man xf]

I keep hearing all this praise for the VE Commodore and how its the greatest engineering feat in Australias automotive history and the usual praise Holden gets from the media but I never seem to understand why the Territory never gets as much recognition, I know it was based on the BA floor pan but it was a completely ground up design, a car of its nature has not been done in australia before and its a truly fantastic car, the VE Commodore although its a great car also and was a complete ground up design I dont see how it as so special seem as though it is very similar to a VZ and a lot of the design and materials are based on the previous models experience.

Both Australian designed and made yet the Commodore gets all the praise, go figure?

[Road_Warrior]

Short memory?

Territory received lots of praise and accolades when it was released, all the motoring journos couldn't shut up about it.

[vztrt]

^^ what road warrior said.

Not sure what's so good about the VE?? Shoehorn engines into a overrated platform. Maybe getting that oversized pussy to stick onto the grill and not break it?

[Gobes32]

Maybe some of Territories woes in Cars Guide are taking the shine off what was and still is a shining beacon in Ford Oz's history......?

[SSbaby]

Does the US Ford Freestyle ring a bell?

I believe there is some similarity between it and Territory.

[ford man xf]

I know the Territory did get some awards, but the media never went on and on about it like they do with the VE commodore, for some reason in carsguide they even call the VE the hero car??

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Does the US Ford Freestyle ring a bell?

I believe there is some similarity between it and Territory.

It's based on that maybe? I always read it was ground up, maybe wrong?

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Does the US Ford Freestyle ring a bell?

I believe there is some similarity between it and Territory.

Yep - and it's only exterior design - still, Territory came first...

[Nikked]

some people still don't know that the territory is Australian *face-palm

[Smoke Pursuit]

hmm

The FG Falcon is a much better car then the VE Commodore.. It kills it in every department..

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

It's based on that maybe? I always read it was ground up, maybe wrong?

It's definitely Australian as it was built off the Falcon platform and shares much of the same underpinnings.

Appearance-wise, the Territory resembles the Ford Taurus X sold in North America. Both cars have similar styling cues -- it was this that sold the Territory to Ford executives at the head office in Dearborn, Michigan. Simon Butterworth, who was behind the Ford Falcon facelift of 2003, styled the Territory but had worked with his American counterpart, J Mays, in working in the global Ford "DNA". Marcus Hotblack worked on the Territory's interior, with a Swiss army knife as a metaphor. Consequently, the car has touches such as flexible cupholders and a handbag holder to the side of the seat for female drivers, recognizing that many SUV buyers are women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Territory

[buickman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Short memory?

Territory received lots of praise and accolades when it was released, all the motoring journos couldn't shut up about it.

The Ford Territory won Wheels car of the 2004 read the wheels feb 2005 edition

[BlueOvalPrint]

Territory FTW - it was a new design style for Aus when the high riding 4WD stle family car was taking off, whereas the VE was just the evolution of a traditional 4 door sedan at the time that stlye was dying off. But look at the flexibility of the interiors to really see the inventiveness of the Terry.

[buickman]

There you go car of year 2004

[IMG][/IMG]

[Ryan]

Although I'm a Holden fan when it comes to "importance" I would say the Territory. The Territory brought a new style of vehicle to Australian roads that Australians weren't very familiar with.

Like someone else said the VE was just an evolution of the 4 door sedan.

[Mr Hardware]

it is very similar to a VZ

You've never driven both have you
they're worlds apart.
Like i've said many, many, many times before
I like the VE ALOT
it is the most falcon-like of any Commodore I've ever driven.

[GK]

[IMG][/IMG][/QUOTE]

These car mags are really shocking. Even when a Ford is a major winner, they've still got to put a Commodore on the cover somewhere. Unreal.

I was at the dentist last week, waiting for a friend. I grabbed an old Wheels mag which had a nice write up of the T-Series cars. Just near it, was an ad for subscribing the Wheels. The bonus was three back issues or other. Their was a pic of three back issues.... you guessed it, all Commodores on the cover. Blatant favouritism.

GK

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

You've never driven both have you
they're worlds apart.
Like i've said many, many, many times before
I like the VE ALOT
it is the most falcon-like of any Commodore I've ever driven.

Nah havent driven both, been in a VZ but driven the VE, I meant more that its very similar, not the same.

[MITCHAY]

I can't say much for the Territory as I have never been in one but we had a VT which is pretty much a VX, VY, VZ and our VE is pretty far ahead IMO. Heaps more space, more power, and better handling.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by GK

These car mags are really shocking. Even when a Ford is a major winner, they've still got to put a Commodore on the cover somewhere. Unreal.

I was at the dentist last week, waiting for a friend. I grabbed an old Wheels mag which had a nice write up of the T-Series cars. Just near it, was an ad for subscribing the Wheels. The bonus was three back issues or other. Their was a pic of three back issues.... you guessed it, all Commodores on the cover. Blatant favouritism.

GK

Wheels have explained it before, but when they put a Holden on the cover it sells more than with anything else on the cover. You wouldnt put an ugly fat chic on the front of Ralph, so why would any other mag be different.
I remember when Toyota wanted to put the Camry on the cover, Wheels agreed but only if Toyota bought the shortfall in magazines that month. I think it was 20000....

[chevypower]

Important is really the wrong word. The more significant and relevant of the two, would be the Territory. In 2003, SUVs and softroaders were gaining more popularity over the traditional taxi-style 4 door sedan. People wanted something new and different, and the Territory gives you everything you want in an SUV, without compromising anything you had or could have had in a 4 door sedan. The VE... was just another new Commodore. And we have seen many of those over the years.

[500SEC]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

It's definitely Australian as it was built off the Falcon platform and shares much of the same underpinnings.

The Terry is perhaps the second vehicle that Ford Australia has released with a visual similarity to another Ford. The XD Falcon was visual very similar to the contemporary European Ford Granada. I think the only common part number was the headlight glass. Except for the Australian Falcon's low wasteline, it was almost impossible to distinguish the two apart.

When the XD was released, I remember debating this point with a Sth African, who insisted it was the same car, and that Ford would never make two separate cars that look so similar.

[Mr Hardware]

Some would argue that neither were important, because neither brought anything new to the market. The concept the territory followed had already been covered by the Subaru Forester, and the Forester has received many more awards than the territory, despite whether you think it is an inferior vehicle or not.

Nah havent driven both, been in a VZ but driven the VE, I meant more that its very similar, not the same.

I completely disagree. I have had a VYII, a VZ and a VE as company cars and I have travelled BIG kays in each.
To drive, the VZ and VE are as i said, WORLDS apart. In 2009 the VE isn't so special. In 2006 it most certainly was.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Originally Posted by GK

These car mags are really shocking. Even when a Ford is a major winner, they've still got to put a Commodore on the cover somewhere. Unreal.

I was at the dentist last week, waiting for a friend. I grabbed an old Wheels mag which had a nice write up of the T-Series cars. Just near it, was an ad for subscribing the Wheels. The bonus was three back issues or other. Their was a pic of three back issues.... you guessed it, all Commodores on the cover. Blatant favouritism.

GK

I used to think this as well until I was cleaning out my old Wheels mags the other day and came across about 5 in a row that featured Fords on the cover.

They do feature more Holdens on the cover but as XR6 Martin said they sell more issues that way.

[onfire]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Wheels have explained it before, but when they put a Holden on the cover it sells more than with anything else on the cover. You wouldnt put an ugly fat chic on the front of Ralph, so why would any other mag be different.
I remember when Toyota wanted to put the Camry on the cover, Wheels agreed but only if Toyota bought the shortfall in magazines that month. I think it was 20000....

Marketing 101.

[XR6_190]

I think that this is pretty obvious, The VE is a good car, but hardly groundbreaking. I personally think the VE did for Holden what the BA did for Ford, and seeing as how the BA came first, I would have to say that the BA was more important than the VE. As for the Territory, I honestly think that it was/ is the most important Aus designed car for the last 20+ years. It was the first fully Australian designed SUV, before that, all other Australian designed cars were the same story, Holden Commodore, Ford Falcon, nothing else really groundbreaking. So the way I see it VE Commodore would probably come third in the line of most important recent Australian cars.

[XR Martin]

When you include exports, the VE is the most important Australian car.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Nah havent driven both, been in a VZ but driven the VE, I meant more that its very similar, not the same.

I suppose it's a matter of what you call similar. The brake feel is different, the steering feel is different, and the handling is vastly different. The VE is a hands down better car than it's predecessor and I base that on driving them for years, not an afternoon.

As far as importance, well chances are if the VE didn't exist, it would make it easier for Ford to say bye bye to the Falcon. Sales of the Territory would indicate it's got something going for it, and most of those buyers would never have picked up a motor mag to read pro or anti articles. So what if car journalists laud this and that, I doubt they have much purchase influence on the population at large.

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

When you include exports, the VE is the most important Australian car.

No, that would be the VT that got the exporting thing started, the VE just continued on.

[Dave_au]

VE is a global car and will carry the weight of Holden's export program for the next 6-8 years. Holden also blew a few more dollars on the VE than what ford blew on Territory.

Unfortunately the Territory also blew quite a few purchasors off with quality and servicing issues, and then everyone will agree that the interior build quality of the BA/BF is a class below the FG and the Japanese/Euros.

For some reason Holden owners tend to ignore or for some reason accept their quality woes, god knows why but to them any issue is inside their tollerance, even if it's constantly blowing power steering pumps and glove box lids and panel fit.