zetec WS v WT performance

[sambb]

Hi,

I'd been leaning toward buying the WS fiesta zetec manual until recently when I read a GoAuto story from the time when they were transitioning to Thailand. It said that the WT zetec would have recalibrated steering that was weightier at speed and that it had a more rigid body and stiffer twist beam rear suspension mounts and sportier suspension than the European version. I haven't been able to distinguish during some quick/limited test drives so was hoping to hear from people with experience behind the wheel of both cars if one model zetec handles/steers better than the other. I realise that the different wheel/tyre packages may play into this too.

Also the WS has similar kw/NM but with peaks 500 rpm lower than in the WT. Is the WS a torquier drive and the WT revier, or is there nothing in it?

Are there any other WS issues I should know about apart from the cold start gremlins?

thanks

[EG30]

We owned a fiesta ws zetec auto from new till it got written off in a hailstorm.

Subsequently a couple of frens bought the WT version.

The WT doesn't turn in as sharp, can't say the ride is any better from the taller profile tyres ie 195 45 16 vs 195 50 16.

I felt no need for the ws steering to be any weighter at speed, and I do miss the turn in sharpness of the ws with its lower profile tyres. Used to turn into a 90 deg corner 20kmh too fast and the esc tucked the car towards the apex instead of pushing the nose wide. Tried the same with the WT and car understeered a bit.

I didn't feel the body or the suspension need to be any stiffer ie it has much better body rigidity, body control and turn in than my '99 Integra type R and this is just a Fiesta zetec hatch and not an ST or RS Ford!

If you were after an Auto then WT is the no brainer with the 1.6 engine and dct auto box.

But I would go for WS every time not only it's put together in Germany but the front bumper treatments, wheel design and colour choices are lot more coherent and classy. Dash material feels very cheap on the WT and they deleted the steering reach adjustment which I found very useful for us.

[sambb]

Yeah, general build and interior-wise I definitely prefer the german car (except I think the WT zetec seats are better). I was just worried based on what I'd read that the WS zetec was maybe a softer version than the WT zetec. thx

[ach]

I've had a WS Zetec manual for a couple of years now, and while overall I'm more than happy with it, I do feel that the steering is a bit light, particularly on centre. So I'd be very curious to see any other comparisons on this topic.

[ebv8]

the WS got euro spec a/c which is not great in our aussie summer, the WT got better seats, WS rims buckle, WS had better dash covering but who cares, WT in much newer, I'd say the WT is the better car overall. just because the WS is german doesn't mean its better its still a budget entry level car.
basically if the WS is cheaper get that, if they are the same price get a WT.
oh i also heard WS has gearbox issues with notchy shifts.

[sambb]

Basically I just want to check that the WS zetec is a proper zetec when compared to the WT zetec ie. springs, shocks, bar, bushes and not just the standard fiesta suspension relying on 6.5in wide rims and 195/45's to handle better.
I just got worried when I read that story I mentioned ( that tells of the WT zetec getting reinforced twist beam pick up points, weightier steering program, springs/shocks etc), that maybe the WS zetec had been devoid of those things and simply relying on a more agressive wheel package.

can anyone confirm things? don't want to commit the $ to a WS zetec to find its just a dressed up LX.

[Pursya]

WT is an "upgrade" for Australian conditions.
Plenty of documentation that the WS was not on the mark for our conditions. And that's not only in regard to the AC.
No doubt the WS is better trimmed inside, but the WT is a car that has been tweaked from the experience of the WS.

[sambb]

so are the different quoted kw/torque peakks between the WS and WT's due to ECU upgrades or are the cam profiles/cam timing different? anyone know?

[trumpy73]

Originally Posted by Pursya

WT is an "upgrade" for Australian conditions.

I'm always curious as to what 'Aus conditions' means. I see this in various contexts, some informative and many that are pretty much marketing slogans.

We have mild winters and a period of hot summers in some parts of the country. Hardly anything that unique requiring any major adjustment.

Other than that, are we talking about the barren desert conditions in the middle which accounts for a tiny portion of drivers? or may be the Sydney potholes!!

[fiestaz]

I have the WT. Drives brilliantly, power is good, comfort is good, Zetec seats are awesome, Air con is pretty good (have felt better though). Downsides are the interior finish is not the great and i do have a few rattles on bumpy roads.

Overall though, its great.

[Pursya]

Aus conditions are not just climate factors.
Compared to Europe our roads are widly varied and basically crap.
In the early days European cars literally shook to bits when they came here without modification.
While the WS is a great vehicle, it did suffer from not being fully tweaked for Aus conditions. No shame in this, as I think Ford simply used a generic raft of settings used by previous vehicles sent to Aus.
But like all new cars there is a learning curve every subsequent version of that model should be better than the last. I fully expect the new Fiesta Sport to be better than the current WT Zetec. And that's how it should be.

[trumpy73]

I'd be interested to know exactly what they 'tweak' for Aus environmental conditions.

[sambb]

they probably went to narrower high profile tyres on the WT to cut down on road roar and make them a bit less susceptible to sidewall punctures (which would make the goo kit useless) and warping on big hits.

[Pursya]

Lots of things to compensate for our roads.
From different suspension settings to more sound deadening material to quieten the noise.
Even different torque settings.
This is not a Fiesta or Ford thing. All car companies need to do it. We do have some extreme conditions.

[trumpy73]

I know this is not just a Ford thing but I'm still yet to see a valid argument about exactly how Australia is vastly different than Europe (which keep in mind is a large a varied continent) and exactly what they do to make it more suitable for our specific conditions and most importantly how does it make a difference.

[Spinner77]

I'm inclined to think that you will find that very many of the adjustments to models are less related to "local conditions" than to new economies in manufacture or improvements in the speed of manufacture. I have been told, for example, that the rear bumper of the WS Fiesta had stronger reinforcement underneath than does the WT.

Marketing considerations also account for some changes. There is a new emphasis on the demo experience for the targeted punters. Does it demo well?

This issue has become more important following study of Steve Jobs' methods in Apple. The Macs always demoed really well. Remember the first one even talked. The Mac Cube could overheat in short order. It had no fan - but, hey, it demoed well!

This could be the story behind the tyres and seats on the WT. The main target is younger female buyers, and they like comfort. On the other hand, from what I have read, the seats on the ST could be less designed with typical western female posteriors uppermost in the mind of the manufacturer.

[z14xe]

I agree with Spinner77, The WT Fiesta has a polystyrene bumper reinforcement behind the rear bumper.
The WS Fiesta has a steel reinforcement bar which provides additional strength in a crash.
I have a WS Fiesta which is I love however it is very picky with fuel types.
On 91 RON the engine pings like marbles in a can.
On 95 RON the engine pings less but still a little.
On 98 RON the engine runs fine but does not like cold starts. You have to let it idle for about 2 mins before you drive off otherwise the engine will splutter, almost back fire with no power.
I have not been able to cure these issues, Ford recon they "can’t fault the issue" as the engine was warm at the time. I live with the issue, running 98 RON so the engine does not ping.
Other than the fuel issues and wheel rims made out of cheese (I bent a rim on road work pot hole at 110kmh on the Albany Hwy WA) I don’t have any issues with the car. The build quality and appearance (partially the appearance of the wheel rims) I feel are better on the WS (German) Fiestas.

[Pursya]

WS are notorious for pinging.
And the wheel issue appears to be one of those things that was not tweaked for our conditions.
I'm sure someone will know if the rims are the same as fitted to the European version. If they are, has there been any reports of the soft issue from Europe.

[fiestaz]

My WT does not ping at all. I always run it on 95ron. 98ron makes no real difference to smoothness or power. It has been on E10 when i first bought it. Even that ran ok. although i felt power was down and it did drink a bit.

I have heard the WS drives a bit better, probably because of lower profile tyres. But i would take the WT over the WS.

[Spinner77]

Interesting points, z14xe.

You could well be onto spotting here a real modification for local conditions, i.e. detuning the engine to run lower-octance fuel. I'm told this is done as a matter of course in India, for example. I imagine it's done in Eastern Europe too (I've often wondered how an ethanol-compliant engine would run on Polish Proof Spirit!).

For reasons I don't understand, I gather it is not easy to compare different petrol grades across countries. The recommendation for European prestige vehicles here seems usually to run 98, and maybe the WS was tuned accordingly for some reason.

(PS. Just a warning on Polish Proof Spirit for people whose curiosity may have been piqued. Four small glasses are quite enough - even if you are still standing.)

[z14xe]

I think the WTs have a different tune, I have not heard about any WTs having pinging issues, the WTs have a different brand of ECU so I guess they have different software loaded too.
It’s not so much the pinging that annoys me on my WS, it’s the cold starting issue where the car limps off unless you let it idle for 2 mins when running 98 RON fuel.
Has any one else had the cold start issues and had them fixed?

[Pursya]

I know when I was researching the Fiesta I initially told the wife I would not buy one for her as there was an issue with the engine just dying.
This thread here is just one of the reports that put me off the car.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1640997
But the wife wanted one and the reports on the WT were much better, so I bit the bullet. Happy I did.
But no doubt, despite the move to Indonesia and the loss of niceties like soft dash and mood lighting, the WT is a vehicle that has progressed for Australian conditions due to real life experience.
And that is how all vehicle development should be.

[sambb]

ok, so there was an ecu change which might explain why the power/torque peaks jumped up from 6000/4000 rpm in the WS to 6300/4300 in the WT.

So if the WS is the bad cold starter on the wrong fuel - what does the WT suffer from (engine-wise)?

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by sambb

ok, so there was an ecu change which might explain why the power/torque peaks jumped up from 6000/4000 rpm in the WS to 6300/4300 in the WT.

So if the WS is the bad cold starter on the wrong fuel - what does the WT suffer from (engine-wise)?

Mines done 34000 kms absolutely and completely trouble free. no running rough, no odd moments nothing.

[wombat66]

Originally Posted by sambb

So if the WS is the bad cold starter on the wrong fuel - what does the WT suffer from (engine-wise)?

Mine runs well. No issues at all.