Anti-seize and those who have no idea on when to use it....

Jim Goose · 01-09-2010, 11:06 PM

Just thought about ranting here about mechanics or back yarders who do ignorant things to their cars...

Late last year I bought a AUII which was very low mileage and had its service history attached. Today I decided to finally see what the plugs were like (I did an oil filter change as soon as I got the car home from Brissy).

Well bugger me... Number 1 plug was solid.
I mean I had to get a ratchet and extension to move the bloody thing.

Each few mm I would stop as the screaching of grinding metal had me thinking the thread was disintergrating.

After a few minutes the first plug was out (and thread intact). Now each plug I removed was the same. So tight that they musta used a 1foot bar to do them up. None of these plugs had anti-seize on them.

Now this is my 3rd (FORD) daily driver in which I have found the plugs to be over tightened and not one bit of anti-seize.

Are apprentices not taught to use the stuff in trade school? Alloy heads, over torqued plugs do not mix. Or are Mechanics these days getting sloppy?

(the plugs actually were Iridiums and were so worn away that they had nearly a 4mm gap!)

An EA i stupidly bought many years ago had all the wheel nuts so tight I had to borrow a 6ft steel pipe in order to get more leverage. I ended jumping up and down on it to get the wheel nuts orf.

I even had a sump plug so tight that it had stretched the threads in the plug. (Again a lot of leverage was needed)

Has anyone else come across this stupidiy when they buy a car??

Working on aircraft engines for 10yrs (piston, not turbine) I found the major engine manufaturers do not recommend, but actually say you MUST use anti-seize on the plugs.

Kryton · 01-09-2010, 11:13 PM

Had a few like that but not usually the spark plugs.
The VX SS sump plug was rock solid (is a common thing though) and took a blow torch and 3 feet of extension bar to remove.

XE Ghia's wheel nuts bent 2 solid wheel braces and a 3 foot extension wouldnt budge them.
Ended up having to use a breaker bar with a 8 foot pipe a 3 guys hanging off the end of it.

Smoke Pursuit · 01-09-2010, 11:37 PM

yeah thats normal.

If people had proper torque drives for certain things we wouldnt have that issue, but most places dont use them now days...

mrbaxr6t · 01-09-2010, 11:39 PM

I have seen insanely tight oil filters before, impossible to remove tight I have no clue how to get oil filters that tight, to get it off (the oil filter) I was forced to crush the filter with a pipe wrench to get enough twist on it to crack it, and even then when it "cracked" the filter casing tore and twisted for the record I personally have never done a filter up any tighter than I am able with my hands, I smear some oil on the oring and wind them on with my hands. Sump plugs was another mentally tight item I have come across on the same car coincidentally. I have never used never seize on plugs but I dont strip them and back off 1/2 turn I just take up the slack in the plugs then give them 1/3 turn to crush the oring gasket thing on them.

I do use never seize on exhaust gasket bolts and other exhaust things (not manifold to head though)

zdcol71 · 01-09-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Just thought about ranting here about mechanics or back yarders who do ignorant things to their cars...

Late last year I bought a AUII which was very low mileage and had its service history attached. Today I decided to finally see what the plugs were like (I did an oil filter change as soon as I got the car home from Brissy).

Well bugger me... Number 1 plug was solid.
I mean I had to get a ratchet and extension to move the bloody thing.

Each few mm I would stop as the screaching of grinding metal had me thinking the thread was disintergrating.

After a few minutes the first plug was out (and thread intact). Now each plug I removed was the same. So tight that they musta used a 1foot bar to do them up. None of these plugs had anti-seize on them.

Now this is my 3rd (FORD) daily driver in which I have found the plugs to be over tightened and not one bit of anti-seize.

Are apprentices not taught to use the stuff in trade school? Alloy heads, over torqued plugs do not mix. Or are Mechanics these days getting sloppy?

(the plugs actually were Iridiums and were so worn away that they had nearly a 4mm gap!)

An EA i stupidly bought many years ago had all the wheel nuts so tight I had to borrow a 6ft steel pipe in order to get more leverage. I ended jumping up and down on it to get the wheel nuts orf.

I even had a sump plug so tight that it had stretched the threads in the plug. (Again a lot of leverage was needed)

Has anyone else come across this stupidiy when they buy a car??

Working on aircraft engines for 10yrs (piston, not turbine) I found the major engine manufaturers do not recommend, but actually say you MUST use anti-seize on the plugs.

Never used any compound on a spark plug and don't know of anyone who ever has either.

SXR6 · 01-09-2010, 11:52 PM

Oil filter on my cousins Rav 4. Stupid! Punch a long flat head screw driver through it and put a piece of pipe over the screw driver to crack it. Made a hell of a mess... but did the job. And again wheel studs, had to jump on a piece of pipe to crack the wheelnuts..
Worst ever were flywheel bolts on my mates VL. holy freakin hell. Busted 2 rattle guns, broke 4 sockets, bent a breaker bar, tried heating them and ended lifting the car off the stands with 4 biggish people and a long long piece of pipe to crack 3 of them.

mik · 02-09-2010, 12:10 AM

so i was told the only anti seize to use for plugs on an alloy head was nickel anti seize.

SXR6 · 02-09-2010, 12:16 AM

Some people get anti seize mixed up with loctite lol.

burnz · 02-09-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

so i was told the only anti seize to use for plugs on an alloy head was nickel anti seize.

a light smear of copper grease works well on alloy head's...

when using any lube/anti seize must have relative thermal propertys as this affects the plug's heat range.

vztrt · 02-09-2010, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Never used any compound on a spark plug and don't know of anyone who ever has either.

Hmm never used anything for spark plugs, and funny enough never had an issue getting them out after either.

WindsorXR · 02-09-2010, 12:54 AM

Same as others here. Have never used anti-seize on spark plugs. Shouldn't have a need to. They shouldn't be done up that tight to start with. We mainly used anti-seize on exhaust bolts/studs.

Veefore · 02-09-2010, 09:27 AM

A good mechanic would have been taught never to use anti-seize on sparkplugs, especially on a performance engine. They rely on direct contact with the head for electrical and thermal transfer.

Mr Hardware · 02-09-2010, 09:37 AM

No anti-seize necessary.

mik · 02-09-2010, 11:26 AM

seemed to work ok for brockys mechanic.

CAMS290 · 02-09-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zdcol71

Never used any compound on a spark plug and don't know of anyone who ever has either.

I use anti seize on spark plugs, now more than ever with alloy heads.
Fact is steel threads and aluminium threads bind, even more on older cars that have been over heated and the heads have gone soft.

I use it on truck wheel nuts and studs, it is awesome stuff.
Copper coat is what I use, as it has good thermal transfer properties.

mac_man_luke · 02-09-2010, 12:22 PM

Engines with alloy heads eg BOSS need conductive anti-seize or your going to have problems (as it is its not uncommon for the factory plugs in a boss motor to snap on removal leaving half a plug in your head :o)

platinumXR · 02-09-2010, 12:24 PM

Ideally you shouldn't really need to use it, but a light smear never hurts. I've been using Chesterton for nigh on 25 years and no dramas - stone...er sorry cast iron or alloy, 4, 6 & 8's.

Yellow_Festiva · 02-09-2010, 12:28 PM

I'm still scratching my head as to why the rear numberplate light globes on a 2nd hand Festiva I bought were GLUED into their sockets with what looked like araldite.....

Buggered up everything, including the socket to change a $2 globe......

LOWBA6 · 02-09-2010, 12:30 PM

I only really use it on exhaust bolts. Only ever used it a couple of times on spark plugs on dads cars because he insists on it. Mostly use it on my bike more than car!

**Silver Ghia** · 02-09-2010, 01:13 PM

Dry threads into an alloy head is asking for trouble IMO. Its bad experience many years ago that makes me use anti-sieze compound on sparkplug threads (not too much) all the time now.

I remember having to install helicoil inserts because of the threads being ruined. The Champion plugs in those days (which were very popular then) also helped the situation.

gcg2503 · 02-09-2010, 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=mik]seemed to work ok for brockys mechanic.[/QUOT

Maybe it was the polarizer...

aussie muscle · 02-09-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

XE Ghia's wheel nuts bent 2 solid wheel braces and a 3 foot extension wouldnt budge them.
Ended up having to use a breaker bar with a 8 foot pipe a 3 guys hanging off the end of it.

wheel nuts put on with an air gun (rattle gun)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm still scratching my head as to why the rear numberplate light globes on a 2nd hand Festiva I bought were GLUED into their sockets with what looked like araldite.....

Buggered up everything, including the socket to change a $2 globe......

i'm guessing they couldn't find the Duct Tape...

**ebxr8240** · 02-09-2010, 03:44 PM

All threads into alloy should have some sort of anti seize..
Water pump bolts on most engines..
Helps the poor bastard next time...

irish2 · 02-09-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

XE Ghia's wheel nuts bent 2 solid wheel braces and a 3 foot extension wouldnt budge them.
Ended up having to use a breaker bar with a 8 foot pipe a 3 guys hanging off the end of it.

If wheel studs are tight, get a breaker bar with correct sized socket, and a car jack. Place the bar parrallel to the ground and jack it up until it lets go. With the weight of the car you will either remove the nut or snap the stud.

66FAIRLANE · 02-09-2010, 03:50 PM

I use it on spark plugs. Just a little. Alloy head or not.

irish2 · 02-09-2010, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

All threads into alloy should have some sort of anti seize..
Water pump bolts on most engines..
Helps the poor bastard next time...

Exactly right, however a very slight smear will do. Too much onto a spark plug and you will have no spark. Also any stainless theads need some anti seize as well. If a stainless thread binds you will not get it off again without cutting it.

Franco Cozzo · 02-09-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Are apprentices not taught to use the stuff in trade school? Alloy heads, over torqued plugs do not mix. Or are Mechanics these days getting sloppy?

?

None of the mechanics or apprentices (including me) have ever used anti sieze on spark plugs when I was an apprentice mechanic at a dealership. Plus the majority of mechanics used air ratchets to tighten them.

Impact guns to tighten wheel nuts as well.

At TAFE, we're too busy working on destroyed 1970 HG Kingswood brakes in our buildings where the roof is falling apart, if we can find the tools that is.

JamesR · 02-09-2010, 05:27 PM

nickel anti-seize is the worst.
absolutely hate using it.
i mean, sure it works great, but get it on your hands once, and you'll be finding it for days. haha

excopau · 02-09-2010, 05:28 PM

You gotta watch out using nickel anti seize on alloy heads, over time it can eat the alloy out and u got no thread left, ur better using a grease just to lube the thread.

**Silver Ghia** · 02-09-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

None of the mechanics or apprentices (including me) have ever used anti sieze on spark plugs when I was an apprentice mechanic at a dealership. Plus the majority of mechanics used air ratchets to tighten them.

OMG, another reason why I'm so paranoid when someone else is working on my cars. Air ratchets on sparkplugs??? I prefer the finess of my hand stopping just when I feel the washer tightened up and the plug is torqued.