If Holden was ever sold?

AWD Chaser · 26-04-2009, 10:21 AM

Hi Guys.

With all the talk in the news (and this forum) about Pontiac's and Holden's demise...

I wanted to hear about the sale of Holden. What would happen if Holden is sold to another company? Would it have any effect here on local market or sales.

Would it even be a possibility that Ford/FPV would buy them out?

Would Holden be able to survive on it's own, or could it even buy out Pontiac themselves?

LUXO_8 · 26-04-2009, 10:25 AM

im of the opinion chinese carmaker SAIC would buy them.....as they're proposing to do with vauxhal and opal...

who knows what they'd do though...leave them here and make the cars here?...move them to china, make the cars in china, export them to here... who knows

ranger58 · 26-04-2009, 10:32 AM

My Understanding is if Holden were sold it would be part of a larger sell off (rolled in to the Pontiac deal).

What I would see happening is the sold off companies would in most likelihood be sold into chinese hands (one of the multitude of auto manufacturers out there), they would then use the brand as a way to import their products into the country.

Holden cannot go it alone as it needs the bigger overseas partner to source what it can not locally, secondly it is owned by GM, they will want money for its purchase, they will not just leave it to operate by itself.

Ford will not buy it because they don't want 2 car platforms in Australia, nor do they need twice the workforce/factories to produce their current range. Besides GM will not sell anything to Ford.

Bossxr8 · 26-04-2009, 10:54 AM

Why would Ford want to buy the Titanic, with the iceberg on the horizon and approaching fast?

robjh80 · 26-04-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger58

Besides GM will not sell anything to Ford.

You are kidding right?

I think GM would sell absolutely anything to anybody right about now! ... they basically have a little over a month left to stay afloat ... which I dont think is gonna happen.

Sprint XR8 · 26-04-2009, 12:24 PM

GM are giving away Opel for free.

Opel - whole company worth less than a single car
General Motors wants out of Opel badly, and according to new reports, it's willing to let the German automaker go without taking any money for it. The only requirement is that the new owner must inject €500 million into Opel for operations. While GM boss man Fritz Henderson has said there are six serious investors in discussions for Opel, and that a deal should be done by early May, the fact that GM has said "if you pay the bills she's all yours" shows that GM is ready to work with anyone who's willing to sign up.

http://www.carandsuv.co.nz/news/8900...e-car-it-makes

Watto_Cobra · 26-04-2009, 01:01 PM

Also, didn't GM approach Ford for a possible merger last year? (or year before?)

fou_bleu · 26-04-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

Also, didn't GM approach Ford for a possible merger last year? (or year before?)

Yes they did... http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/18/b...ored-alliance/ --> http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/i...ord-about-mer/

4Vman · 26-04-2009, 02:41 PM

Mitsuolden anyone?

73XBGT · 26-04-2009, 03:07 PM

Is this for real? is Holden going to be sold off?? HAHA..if thats true then this has just made my day! lol suck to holden

RG · 26-04-2009, 03:20 PM

I think the more interesting question is "If Holden were sold off by GM what V8 would they switch to?"

Watto_Cobra · 26-04-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordman6

Yes they did... http://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/18/b...ored-alliance/ --> http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/13/i...ord-about-mer/

Ahh yep, that's the one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

I think the more interesting question is "If Holden were sold off by GM what V8 would they switch to?"

And the Alloytec. They are both GM global engines I believe.

Gobes32 · 26-04-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

I think the more interesting question is "If Holden were sold off by GM what V8 would they switch to?"

Maybe VW will buy them and it will score the Bugatti W16.......... I would pay $155k for that!

Kamshaaft · 26-04-2009, 04:53 PM

First of all, Holden =/= Pontiac. Where does anything say Holden, one of GM's strongest brands, is being sold off?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watto_Cobra

Ahh yep, that's the one.

And the Alloytec. They are both GM global engines I believe.

Hmm I don't know what they'd work out, the Alloytec was designed and initially built here under Holden, consulting with Cadillac (who's cars the engines were destined for).

mrbaxr6t · 26-04-2009, 05:00 PM

if holden was sold hopefully the new people running it will make one that actually doesn't look like a squashed poop.

4Vman · 26-04-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

First of all, Holden =/= Pontiac. Where does anything say Holden, one of GM's strongest brands, is being sold off?

Hmm I don't know what they'd work out, the Alloytec was designed and initially built here under Holden, consulting with Cadillac (who's cars the engines were destined for).

I don't know that "strongest" is the right term.. maybe "one of least worst performing" considering they've been loosing money for a few years now...

Is it just me or does anyone else see the irony in the link between alloytec V6, Pontiac, Holden and going down the gurgler?

snappy · 26-04-2009, 06:20 PM

If holden bought pontiac correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that mean gm still own pontiac

robjh80 · 26-04-2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

If holden bought pontiac correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that mean gm still own pontiac

Holden can't buy anything, Holden is only a subsiduary "brand name" of General Motors USA ... Holden is not a car company in it's own right

It has always amused me how Holden is somehow etched into Australian mindset as being some sort of Great Australian Company .... How?

General Motors USA sell vehicles under various brand names around the globe including ... Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall and Wuling.

GM has already dumped Saab, Vauxhall, Opel, Hummer, Saturn and now Pontiac .... how long before it dumps or manages, if it's lucky enough, to sell off Holden ... a business mind you that hasn't made any money for the group for 5 years? .... can't be too far off I reckon.

**Fordman1** · 26-04-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

If holden bought pontiac correct me if im wrong but wouldn't that mean gm still own pontiac

Holden don't have money to pay their employees' redundancy packages.........they won't be buying anything let alone another brand..

BTW: they couldn't buy Pontiac unless they were "dumped" themselves...

4Vman · 26-04-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Holden don't have money to pay their employees' redundancy packages.........they won't be buying anything let alone another brand..

BTW: they couldn't buy Pontiac unless they were "dumped" themselves...

Even if both were stand alone entities holden buying pontiac would be like the local brewery buying CUB....

buickman · 26-04-2009, 07:51 PM

Didn't GMH go it alone in the 80's from the US divisions with there own 6's & 8 's? They went from GM to GMH Australia.

Kamshaaft · 26-04-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I don't know that "strongest" is the right term.. maybe "one of least worst performing" considering they've been loosing money for a few years now...

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant, but as you just found out it's very hard the phrase

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Is it just me or does anyone else see the irony in the link between alloytec V6, Pontiac, Holden and going down the gurgler?

I can't see any irony, care to explain? Cadillac, SAAB and a couple other GM brands use the engine too. Cadillac is THE least worst performing of the GM brands, and Cadillac heavily features the GM High Feature V6.

Had to borrow your double negatives for that. Your similie about Holden buying Pontiac is also pretty good point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robjh80

Holden can't buy anything, Holden is only a subsiduary "brand name" of General Motors USA ... Holden is not a car company in it's own right

It has always amused me how Holden is somehow etched into Australian mindset as being some sort of Great Australian Company .... How?

Ford 'Australia', however...

4Vman · 26-04-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

I can't see any irony, care to explain? Cadillac, SAAB and a couple other GM brands use the engine too. Cadillac is THE least worst performing of the GM brands, and Cadillac heavily features the GM High Feature V6.

All three are adjunct failures.... and somehow all linked together.

Dave_au · 26-04-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUXO_8

im of the opinion chinese carmaker SAIC would buy them.....as they're proposing to do with vauxhal and opal...

Rather interesting that SAIC wasn't interested in providing Ssangyong with a further equity injection when it hit the wall in Korea in December (SAIC has a controlling share of Ssangyong IIRC).

Another player to look out for would be Geeley, which just snapped up the DSI plant in Albury.

**Elks** · 26-04-2009, 09:05 PM

GM Wuling. I had to google them.

I can't believe I didn't know about these little gems!

Funny thing it's probably the only successful division.

Falc'man · 26-04-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

Would it have any effect here on local market or sales.

It will have no affect whatsoever, because Holden is, and will always remain, 'Australian'.

Jokes aside, I thought Holden was a centre of excellent for GM??? Sure they've been losing money since 2004, but the same can be said about any other car company, and certainly nearly all the GM subsidiaries.

And I believe the reason they're losing money is because of GM's sanctioned Zeta platform, which was meant to be GM's Global Rear Wheel Drive. The brief was to build this behemoth floorpan to cater for all of GM's RWD, but then no one told GM the GFC was about to happen (Nor did GM heed any warnings, dating as far back as '82, that they would sooner or later be the cause for their own destruction).

Basically, Holden got screwed by their parent, with export promises that couldn't be kept.

I hope Holden survive in one form or another, Ford needs the competition to keep offering their best. But whatever happens to them it won't change my view that they are a bunch of .

4Vman · 26-04-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

It will have no affect whatsoever, because Holden is, and will always remain, 'Australian'.

I hope Holden survive in one form or another, Ford needs the competition to keep offering their best. But whatever happens to them it won't change my view that they are a bunch of .

Yes, the biggest looser if holden fall over is competition, especially in the performance sector. We need holden, and more-so HSV to survive, unfortunately they both need each other.

Falc'man · 26-04-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes, the biggest looser if holden fall over is competition, especially in the performance sector. We need holden, and more-so HSV to survive, unfortunately they both need each other.

I've always said the same thing, especially after FG was released. For bang, size, and handling (in the "gt" sense) for your buck we've got the best products on this planet afaik. And yep, you can thank competition for that.

vanman_75 · 26-04-2009, 09:59 PM

there would be no v8 supercars.....no bathurst, and some high prices in the future for collectable commodores from the 21st century

CADSKY · 26-04-2009, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I hope Holden survive in one form or another, Ford needs the competition to keep offering their best. But whatever happens to them it won't change my view that they are a bunch of .

yep 100% agree. just imagine ford going it alone in Aus, there would be no pressure to constantly design and build stronger and more powerful engines. turbo would be dumped, v6 would be introduced and the V8 wouldnt get anywhere near the amount of power gains it has got in the last 5 years.