The million dollar question... can Ford pip Holden for 2nd in sales race 2008

marcosambrose · 06-06-2008, 09:23 PM

After some painful thinking during my day off and after looking at sales numbers from May... Holden sales fown 13.8% (year on year) Ford is up 0.8% year on year and Ford has bridged the sales gap to less than 2000 per month..

With models like....

the new fiesta:

new focus:

and new kuga:

on thier way, (albiet kuga + fiesta wont be here till next year) can ford build on the growing success of FG and Mondeo and pip holden by the end of the year?

Holden have nothing in the pipeline that they can use to defend the 2nd spot against ford since all thier models are down on sales year on year...

what do you guys think?

Yellow_Festiva · 06-06-2008, 09:37 PM

Bring em on. Those models look the goods, but the competition is not Holden IMO, we will need to pull sales from the cheap yet reliable Japanese and Koreans.

If that Fiesta comes in yellow I may be ohhh so tempted to upgrade to another Ford!

Windsor220 · 06-06-2008, 09:38 PM

I think its possible. If not this year then next.

Fords range is decent. Holden look like they're in trouble. Apart from the Commodore, which isn't strong as it once was, there isnt really anything that great in their range. Astra isnt too bad but the Daewoos arent good.

GM in general seem to be going down the tube.

BAxtER · 06-06-2008, 09:42 PM

yes i think it can be done for ford to take 2nd place.

Martys-Bionic-XR · 06-06-2008, 10:08 PM

OMFG !!!

that kuga bloody sexy. If it comes in the XR5 version...well i might have to consider my options against the super pursuit

burnz · 06-06-2008, 10:13 PM

personaly i hope/wish holden and ford can pip the white good's company.

GTP290 · 06-06-2008, 10:28 PM

I remember not long ago Holden was offering 2 or 3 thousand dollars worth of free fuel for V8 buyers, was this a success for Holden, or did it cost them to much to continue this offer?

Rodp · 06-06-2008, 11:03 PM

I think the current Fiesta is a pretty good looking car on the road and I prefer it over the one above.

I like the new Focus front, don't like the rear on the current one too much, hopefully that's improved.

ThePistonHead · 06-06-2008, 11:31 PM

I think we will see Ford overtake Holden in 2010/11 when local production of Focus starts.

uranium_death · 07-06-2008, 12:08 AM

Ford will not overtake Holden or Toyota in 2008.

There are too many ageing models about and large car sales are the most insignificant they have ever been (although they are still best sellers for Holden and Ford).

One thing that annoys me is people crap on, "The FG looks too similar to the BF".

I reckon the current Corolla and previous Corolla hatches aren't a great deal different, but nobody notices that...or maybe I'm just blind.

But when Ford gets newer models in and re-invigorates the brand with fresh blood, it's possible.

Jayden · 07-06-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ford will not overtake Holden or Toyota in 2008.

One thing that annoys me is people crap on, "The FG looks too similar to the BF".

I reckon the current Corolla and previous Corolla hatches aren't a great deal different, but nobody notices that...or maybe I'm just blind.

Maybe its because nobody could give a crap what corollas look like. people will still lap them up. :P And the FG does look too similar. If some of us have to look twice to determine what year it is then thats really bad for the average buyers who usually cant tell the difference between makes. That will hurt sales, but also guarantee some because its not a pile of controversy on wheels. For right now its ok, what about in 2010 though. if we get there. they will have to come up with some pretty hardcore stripe packages in that time.

RATT · 07-06-2008, 09:06 AM

It can happen, not till atleast 2009 though. 2000 units is effectively a new model line if none of the others improve.

The Fiesta will provide a substantial and consistent increase every month. Focus will hover around 1500 units a month and Kuga will take some time to get accepted, as Mondeo is struggling to do now.

elusiverunner · 07-06-2008, 09:31 AM

Can I ask what the difference is between the new Focus and the current model. From the picture I can hardly see any difference.

Peter B - CV8 · 07-06-2008, 09:42 AM

Be interesting to see how the VE wagon sales go. I think Holden will sell quite a few initially, as there is a bit of pent up demand in this section of the market.

HLC · 07-06-2008, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elusiverunner

Can I ask what the difference is between the new Focus and the current model. From the picture I can hardly see any difference.

the whole nose of it pretty much

Mrs Pom · 07-06-2008, 10:17 AM

I like to compare the list of best selling cars here to that in the UK. I must admit that I was surprised to see what crap makes up the best selling list here. Each one of Fords model range is best or near best in class yet are no where when it comes to sales. I just don't get the Australian car buyer.

The UK list for 2007 just for interest

1
Ford Focus
126,928

2
Vauxhall Astra
113,894

3
Ford Fiesta
102,872

4
Vauxhall Corsa
94,120

5
Volkswagen Golf
68,843

6
Peugeot 207
67,185

7
BMW 3 Series
58,544

8
Renault Mégane
55,468

9
Renault Clio
53,907

10
Vauxhall Vectra
50,983

Note that this was the first year that the Mondeo was not in the top 10 in some time... probably due to the new model coming out mid year.

And not a Toyota in site!!!!

fordOwner · 07-06-2008, 10:28 AM

Blimey! This post would not be anywhere as good without those pics.
I agree. With cars looking like that coming our way and our new Falcon range I think Holden has every reason to worry. By the time those classicly shaped cars hit our streets the new face-lifted Territory might be rolling out too yeh?
The focus looks like it might give the Aurion a run aswell.

**russellw** · 07-06-2008, 10:44 AM

Certainly not this year - currently more than 10,000 units behind with only half a year to go the annual result is beyond doubt.

On a monthly basis it's a little harder to assess - the overall gap in May was around 1,500 sales with the comparatives thus:

Light Segment

Fiesta 575 vs Barina 952 - the Fiesta normally around 640 and it seems unlikely that will change given the lack of a new one until next year. Deficit ~300.

Small Segment

Focus 1,302 vs Astra 1,487 - Focus has managed to outsell Astra in the odd month but the Viva sales are also in this segment at 434 in May and there is no Ford competitor. Deficit ~400.

Medium Segment

Mondeo 565 vs Epica/Vectra 43 - Mondeo is starting to get towards the volumes we'd expect and the Epica seesm to be settling around the 100 mark. Surplus ~500.

Large Segment

Falcon 3,320 vs Commodore 4,215 - this is the hard one to call, you'd expect that there were enough swinging buyers for the Falcon to win some months later this year. Let's call it a draw.

Prestige Segment

As we've given up on this one it's a deficit of ~250.

Sport Segment

Don't blame me for the VFacts categories but here we have the Focus Cab 25 vs Astra Convertible 77 but the figures have been closer most months. Given that the Focus Cab is close to the countrys best kept secret we'll call it a deficit of ~50.

SUV Compact Segment

At present we have this one to ourselves and although the Escape is well past it's used by date it's a surplus of ~175.

SUV Medium Segment

Territory 1,254 vs Captiva 918 - even though Territory is sliding a bit the Captiva is as well so we'll call the surplus ~300.

Vans

They get counted in passenger vehicle sales so the Transit 170 vs Combo 90 gives us a surplus of ~80.

Utes 4x2

Falcon 915 vs Commodore 1,112 but we'd expect the FG range to close the gap so let's call that one a draw too. We also have the Ranger 664 vs the Rodeo 622 so we'll round that out to a surplus of ~50.

Utes 4x4

Ranger 647 vs Rodeo 909 is not likely to change by much so we'll call a deficit of ~250.

We get an extra 40 odd sales from the Tranist C/C which is in another category with no comparative Holden model.

Adding up all those numbers brings us to an overall deficit of around 100 units so on that basis it would be feasible to knock off Holedn for the 2nd spot for at least a couple of months this year.

Cheers
Russ

olds · 07-06-2008, 04:56 PM

This thread sucks big time ,have a look at how many people are aiming for, and would be happy with second place.Why not shoot for first, or are there too many people that have that second foreign car in their carport

DanielXR8 · 07-06-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Pom

I like to compare the list of best selling cars here to that in the UK. I must admit that I was surprised to see what crap makes up the best selling list here. Each one of Fords model range is best or near best in class yet are no where when it comes to sales. I just don't get the Australian car buyer.

The UK list for 2007 just for interest

1
Ford Focus
126,928

2
Vauxhall Astra
113,894

3
Ford Fiesta
102,872

4
Vauxhall Corsa
94,120

5
Volkswagen Golf
68,843

6
Peugeot 207
67,185

7
BMW 3 Series
58,544

8
Renault Mégane
55,468

9
Renault Clio
53,907

10
Vauxhall Vectra
50,983

Note that this was the first year that the Mondeo was not in the top 10 in some time... probably due to the new model coming out mid year.

And not a Toyota in site!!!!

Well if the cars are good, which I agree with you, what isn't so good about the Ford experience. Not hard to find the answer when you ask that.

Dan

Yellow_Festiva · 07-06-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Sport Segment

Don't blame me for the VFacts categories but here we have the Focus Cab 25 vs Astra Convertible 77 but the figures have been closer most months. Given that the Focus Cab is close to the countrys best kept secret we'll call it a deficit of 50

I had NO IDEA the Focus even came in a "Coupé-Cabriolet"!!! Yeeessh.. You would think they don't want to climb up the sales ladder....

It's not a bad looker either....

Bad Bird · 07-06-2008, 08:32 PM

I've been thinking (yeah, I know, it's a dangerous thing). Could the reason Toyota is at the top not be only because their cars are reliable and cheap, but also because their dealerships offer better customer service, better after-sale support and have a better connection to the customer?

Walk into most Ford/Holden dealerships and you're dealt with indifference half the time. Walk into a Toyota dealership and you're treated like a king.

This is just my experience, YMMV.

Yellow_Festiva · 07-06-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

I've been thinking (yeah, I know, it's a dangerous thing). Could the reason Toyota is at the top not be only because their cars are reliable and cheap, but also because their dealerships offer better customer service, better after-sale support and have a better connection to the customer?

Walk into most Ford/Holden dealerships and you're dealt with indifference half the time. Walk into a Toyota dealership and you're treated like a king.

This is just my experience, YMMV.

And mine as well. Took my brothers new Hilux to get a service and some warranty work done, was offered a new camry to take home as they needed it overnight, when I returned to collect, they had a plush waiting area with big screen TV and a ton of Mags.

The work they did was explained in great detail, they didn't just hand over the keys and say "it's over there"...

This had NEVER EVER happened when I was dealing with Ford service. (opposite actually) Was I impressed, hell yeah, here I am now talking about it... word of mouth is a wonderful thing...

FordFella · 08-06-2008, 12:02 PM

Rodeo will be gone soon - make way for "Colorado". As to how that will affect sales I don't really know.

phillyc · 08-06-2008, 06:49 PM

As usual, RussellW gets to the bottom of it. Based on your regular postings I would have to agree with you.

The gap to Holden will shrink dramatically on a monthly basis in 2008. The VE wagon & renaming of the Rodeo to Colorado are the big unknowns.

The 2008 sales difference will end up at around 15,000 (or about 5,000 more than now.)

In 2009, Ford will have a shot at beating Holden, but it will be close.

When the new / restyled Focus, Fiesta & hopefully Kuga come here. Then 2nd should be absolute minimum Ford should be aiming for.

Kuga, If it gets out there & marketed correctly, it should be good for 750 sales a month!

I wish they would bring the S-Max here too. The Focus based people mover. It looks terrific!

aualright · 09-06-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad Bird

I've been thinking (yeah, I know, it's a dangerous thing). Could the reason Toyota is at the top not be only because their cars are reliable and cheap, but also because their dealerships offer better customer service, better after-sale support and have a better connection to the customer?

Walk into most Ford/Holden dealerships and you're dealt with indifference half the time. Walk into a Toyota dealership and you're treated like a king.

This is just my experience, YMMV.

Alot of truth to that, unfortunately. My folks are in their 60's and have always owned Fords. They liked the Focus over all others, but at the end of the day they bought a Corolla last week much to my chagrin. The main reason was a dodgy salesman at one Ford dealer and an absolute toss of a Sales Manager at Thomson Ford in Parramatta who was by all reports rude and disrespectful. These are people that have bought Fords all their life and were trading in a 93 TX5 that was originally bought at said dealer.

I couldn't believe they had gone the Toyota, until I heard their complaints. I am now in the process of putting a formal complaint to Ford in regards to how this sales manager treated them (salesman was fine), and how he has essentially turned life long Ford buyers off through such arrogance.

It is about respect for many elderly people...something that is poorly missing from this manager at Thomson Ford.

Love my Fords, but they need to sort out the turkeys doing the deals. The Toyota dealer was most compromising, rather than patronising. That means alot to many.

****

Rodp · 09-06-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aualright

Love my Fords, but they need to sort out the turkeys doing the deals. The Toyota dealer was most compromising, rather than patronising. That means alot to many.

They certainly do. I was trading in my 3.5yr old XR8 and was treated very poorly by Ford dealers when I was looking at my next new car, recently. I'd have thought they had people queueing around the block with the attitude I was given.

Decided to shop elsewhere and visited several different manufacturers, all of them treated me significantly better than the best Ford dealer I dealt with. Now I drive a VW.

Bossxr8 · 09-06-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aualright

Alot of truth to that, unfortunately. My folks are in their 60's and have always owned Fords. They liked the Focus over all others, but at the end of the day they bought a Corolla last week much to my chagrin. The main reason was a dodgy salesman at one Ford dealer and an absolute toss of a Sales Manager at Thomson Ford in Parramatta who was by all reports rude and disrespectful. These are people that have bought Fords all their life and were trading in a 93 TX5 that was originally bought at said dealer.

I couldn't believe they had gone the Toyota, until I heard their complaints. I am now in the process of putting a formal complaint to Ford in regards to how this sales manager treated them (salesman was fine), and how he has essentially turned life long Ford buyers off through such arrogance.

It is about respect for many elderly people...something that is poorly missing from this manager at Thomson Ford.

Love my Fords, but they need to sort out the turkeys doing the deals. The Toyota dealer was most compromising, rather than patronising. That means alot to many.

****

Why didn't they go to a different Ford dealer then?

Bad Bird · 09-06-2008, 04:43 PM

Because it sours your taste for the product. Which is unfortunate as I like my Fords...

Rodp · 09-06-2008, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why didn't they go to a different Ford dealer then?

To many people, the representative of one dealership represents Ford as a whole. You can't critisise an elderly couple being put off the Ford experience because their initial experience went sour, I would have done the same if I went to another vendor and their first engagement was poor. I went to several Ford dealers and the sum of their best effort was poor.

Surely the goal, and given the FG release and the large car market dying in the buttocks in the back of their mind, would be to schmooze *anyone* that walked into their yard?