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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,028
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Thought this might be an interesting topic to discuss - things that were seen as 'crap' cars or had poor reputations for whatever reason from new - Starfire Commodore, Datsun 200B, EA Falcon etc.
You've got to pick one (or more) of these traditional junk cars and an outline of your ultimate ****box hypothetical project (I've already actually got one - see email signature ![]() The only rules are no engine conversions, no Barra, no LS, etc you've got to spice up the lump under the bonnet, free reign on transmission. Unlimited spondoolies - budget build or sky is the limit. My pick is the mighty VH Starfire 1.9L 4 cylinder Commodore. My plans would be: Multipoint EFI conversion Sequential ignition Sequential injection Engine management system Garrett GT2052 turbo (discount!) Intercooler Intake 2.5" turbo back exhaust 5sp manual conversion 3.73 final drive LSD in rear Target is about 150KW/wheels. What car would you pick and what are you doing to spice her up for the ultimate hypothetical ****box project? Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 10-09-2020 at 12:39 AM. |
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#2 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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99 Festiva - Paint it fluro yellow
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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#3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,881
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Quote:
That way it can hold a bigger boat.
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2024
Time to Make the Hippies Cry Again |
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#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,881
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I reckon the P76 would be a good target, with the 4.4L V8 obviously.
I believe that engine had take a much larger bore, so could probably get it close to 5L, and of course plenty of Range-Rover mods available, including a super-charger. I would tub the rear, and use that massive boot to fit the biggest fattest tyres I could find, whilst also slamming it as low as possible
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2024
Time to Make the Hippies Cry Again |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,881
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The Centura was a ****ebox rally car straight out of the box.
The cars themselves were turds on wheels, but they had those beautiful "hemi" 6's. With the right cam and triple carbs they could go like stink.
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2024
Time to Make the Hippies Cry Again |
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#6 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Quote:
I’ve been in the hunt for one of these commodores for years. I think I’ve found three in that time, two were basket cases and the other was mint but the owner was overly optimistic about the amount id pay lol. But my ****box would be a Vauxhall chevette. Cool little mk2 escort sized British ****heap. I know you said no engine swaps but too bad. It’s getting a 2.3 cf Bedford engine. Mostly bolts straight in and probably gives it 20hp more. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#7 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Quote:
Centura was just a stretched Hillman avenger wasn’t it? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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#8 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,315
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I have just driven the worst s**t box on 4 wheels since 1970s: It is a 2019 Mitsubishi Mirage.
It has a 3-cylinder rubber string motor, and a manual gearbox with an ON/OFF clutch that makes the thing either stall or jump when you lift the foot 1cm of the floor. This thing has done only 1400 km since new, and I'm only dropping it off for 12 months servicing in the morning. No wonder why the Mirage has gotten 'Worst car you can buy' award by many journalists several years in a row since 2013 when this model was released! From now on I will feel sorry for any owners of these when I see one along the road. |
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#10 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 21,848
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Reliant Robin; turbo/nitrous, move the engine to middle, Ferrari Selespeed type transaxle/cradle, airbagged and lightly chopped.
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 618
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VN Executive 5.0L, assuming you could find one.....
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Had: ED Fairmont AU engine 5 speed exhaust extractors, 17" mags, miss the old girl.... Have: 1JZ Soarer dump pipe, exhaust, coilovers ![]() |
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#12 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Easier to do that in a S**tbox Fiat X19 half your work is already done. Add a Rootes blower and Kenworth air snorkels and its ready to cruise.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 996
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Nissan Bluebird - the four cylinder limousine. My list of "money is no object" improvements include; duct tape (about 1km), Repco Multi Purpose Body Filler (about 300kg), 3M double sided tape, upgraded plastic hub caps, rear window louvre, gold paint, motorised antenna, sheepskin seat covers, and maybe a towball cap (if a tow bar is fitted). I would also replace the spark plugs, and definitely new engine oil and filter. Might also retro the car back to crossply tyres. Target power output is 10kW at the left hand rear wheel.
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#14 | ||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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In a roundabout way, the Centura was developed from the (Euro) Chrysler 180 which was also in a roundabout way developed from the Hillman Avenger...
Chrysler 180 ![]()
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.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 596
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I'm also (kind of) going against the no engine swap rules - I want to put a WH Caprice body onto an Adventura or Crewman or Avalanche to create an AWD V8 Luxo-barge.
Because I'm weird. |
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#16 | |||
3..2..1..
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bellbird park
Posts: 7,218
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Quote:
Lol, the missus was given one as a courtesy car when our Subaru was getting serviced. They make a Great Wall look like a quality build. You can see why they were the cheapest new car you could buy for a while. Utter rubbish. |
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#17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 3,111
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hyundai xcel x3, with a 6G75 from a mitshi 380
run the 380 suspension and leave it FWD i think you could get the donors for under $3k for the pair and another $2k for fabrication so for $5k you would have a beast of a car
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CURRENT RIDES BA GT Mk1 #0009 - Narooma Blue SY Ghia AWD Black VZ LX8 Adventra Holden HX 50th Anniversary AU Saloon Car racecar 1980 GS1000ST - Wes Cooley Rep
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#18 | ||
Al
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South Aus.
Posts: 1,702
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Probably happening as per thread title with the Mrs's Edsel.... much despised, now becoming collectible..... it has grown on me, 2 door one would be good!
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#19 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: melbourne
Posts: 220
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Anything that sounds like LADA !
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#20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
![]() Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Riff
Posts: 12,354
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1998 Corolla, 4AGZE conversion.
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FGII XR6 IN LIGHTNING STRIKE R52 SIII IN GUN METALLIC |
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#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,350
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This year marks my 50 years working in the auto industry & the issue of "What is the worst car ?" comes up every now & then.
A lot of people have their pet hates & a lot changes over time, but there are far worse cars than 4-cyl Commodores, P76s, Centuras or 5-litre V8 VNs. A classic case in point is how the "least favourite Holden is the HD". May 1965 was GMH's highest total monthly sales of all time. HD's gross sales per month was better than the HR, EJ & HQ !! History shows that the motoring scribes of the day loved it, "Great performance, heaps of room, space age styling etc. etc." much the same as the P76 in 1973. Sure HDs rusted, (what 60s car didn't ?), but motoring writers of today (most of whom weren't even alive in 1965) hate it. How times have changed. The 4-cyl Commodore filled a niche, as did the Bluebird & the Centura. All these cars were fine when new & even held their value well on the used car market when a couple of years old. They were solid, easy to service & did their job. OK they weren't performance cars, but they weren't sold as that. As I said, many old mechanics recant stories of "Horrible cars" they've either owned on worked on. The common threads seem to be East European, French or Italian. Early Hyundais, Kias & Daewoos weren't brilliant either. I could begin with Lada, FSN Niki or the Alfa Sud. These are absolute POS, they make EA Falcons, Centuras or 4-cyl Commodores seem cool. My pet hate were French cars, by & large they weren't built to be serviced by mere mortals. They were quirky at best, especially the Citroen DS. Having said that early Peugeots were far better than either Citroens or Renaults of the era. Pommy cars from the 70s weren't good either. Japanese (pre-1968) weren't any better than the early Korean offerings. Because the choice is so wide, we used to have boundary "rules". Our rules were nothing French, nothing East European & nothing before 1960. If you follow these "rules" the clear winner is the Morris (Leyland) Marina ! These things were crap. They didn't sell well, they were worth nothing 2nd hand. They leaked oil & fell apart weeks from new & they didn't go stop or handle well. It didn't help that the manufacturer (BMC/Leyland) were essentially bankrupt at the time. Hard to beat that one !! Dr Terry |
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#22 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
The 4-cyl version had a lousy engine & brakes. the 6-cyl was a rocket with (slightly) better brakes but they were outdated by the time they came to market in Aust. The competition (Cortina, Torana, Datsun & Toyota was much better as the time. Dr Terry |
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#23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,640
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Mini Moke.
Wind in the hair -100 Star Safety rating Lowered, New Paint Job, Upgraded Brakes, Wider Wheels & Worked Engine. You would drive it like it was the last time you would ever drive again, because that literally, would be the case if anyone came into contact with you. ![]()
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2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed 2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed 2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto |
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#24 | |||
I am Groot
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,840
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Quote:
But if you want to get all pedantic and mention Simca then you also need to include the Rootes Group, the Chrysler 180 was the base name for a series of large saloon cars produced by Chrysler Europe resulting from a joint development by Rootes (UK) and Simca (Fr), the Chrysler 180 ("C car") and the Hillman Avenger ("B Car") which where developed alongside each other, shared plenty of design cues which are immediately recognisable between the two, the main difference been scale, the Avenger was smaller.... ....then the Centura was developed from the 180.
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.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,881
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Quote:
It really is in a class all its own, for taking a bad car and making it worse, for creating something that literally nobody wanted, and effectively cursing the whole range. The shartfire engine itself deserves special praise not just for being an abissmal piece of junk, but for being in every way worse than the engine it replaced. The 1.9L Korean Opel wasn't great, but at least it was OHC. If you turfed the factory unit and fitted a Weber carbie, they went ok. I don't know if the local-content requirements were increased or if other components had to be sourced o/s, but either way they had to come up with a home-grown engine. And their solution was literally a cut down red motor.
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2024
Time to Make the Hippies Cry Again |
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#26 | ||
Limited supply
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,441
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![]() rice burners |
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#28 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,028
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Quote:
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#29 | ||
Cabover nut
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,827
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Early 80s Susuki Sierra, new poly kit for all 4 leaf springs, monster truck lift kit to give it a higher CoG, shorten the wheelbase.
Pull the engine and swap it for a Victa motor should give it some extra guts. Mini Moke wheels if the spot welds hold.
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heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752
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#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,350
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Quote:
What was wrong with a the basic VB-VH Commodore, I wouldn't them a 'bad' car, certainly not compared to some of the stuff in these current posts. On the subject of engines, the 1900 Opel was German not Korean & was 'Cam in Head' not OHC. The 4-cyl Commodore was better in many areas than the UC Torana motor & wasn't just simply a Starfire. ADR27a pollution gear was the enemy in those days. The 4-cyl Corana version of the Starfire had a better carby & ran better & lasted longer. As you say fit a Weber to anything back then & they went better. BTW the Commodore 4-cyl & the Starfire were 173 Blue motors cut down, not Red motors. Dr Terry |
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