Proposed Zero Demerit Points for P-Platers in NSW

[all4ford]

"P-PLATE drivers will be given no second chances before having their licence cancelled under the toughest driving conditions yet being considered by the New South Wales Government."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21025660-2,00.html

I dont think this is too bad of an idea, however, I believe they should remove the loss of demerit points for trivial offences such as not showing your p-plate. I've known friends who have lost points because one of their p-plates have come off whilst driving. I'm sure everyone uses that excuse, and that is why your not believed when you say it fell off, but I think if you fine people for that, it is enough.

I think this could work well, by installing some fear in young drivers to say that if you get caught just once, its all over for 3 months and you have to go through that test all over again.

[GTP owner]

It still does nothing to address the complete lack of driver training involving emergency procedures - maximal braking, swerve and recover, etc. So with that as a backdrop I think the idea sucks.

[Venomous]

But the problem is, people do make mistakes.
Accidently going the one speed in some speed zones.
Now being sure of the speeds etc.
Could be a bit harsh to lose your liscence over a mistake

[Polyal]

Are people not over discussing P Platers yet?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Venomous

But the problem is, people do make mistakes.
Accidently going the one speed in some speed zones.
Could be a bit harsh to lose your liscence over a mistake

I originally agreed with the proposal but having read your post changed my mind - I agree, we all make mistakes, they should at least have one chance (3 points say) which I think they currently have?

[nicko_bud]

pfft as if thats gonna stop people driving unliscenced.

Im with GTP Owner more driver training is needed and hoons.. well i dont know about you eastern state guys but i think there should be government sponsered race days where people can legally go nuts...

[pauljh74]

Perhaps smaller offences allow them to use up the current point system, but anything like speeding by 20km/h or more, or other similar level offences attract loss of licence. Speeding by a few km/h can be a mistake, but speeding by a substantial margin isn't.
Drivers can also have their cars deemed unroadworthy due to mods by police at roadside checks, when the car isn't actually unroadworthy. This can attract demerits, sometimes undeserved.
Otherwise it's all just another example of being seen to be doing something while actually doing nothing to fix the real problem. It costs less to place more restrictions on drivers than to actually do something constructive.

[flappist]

Extract from the book of totalitarianism:

In order to control the population you must not allow them to realise that they are being controlled.
First take a small group and alienate it from the majority by propaganda and vilification showing this group is the major problem and the majority are ok.
Implement dogmatic control systems on this minority. The majority will not be worried because it does not affect them.
After this group is controlled then select another minority group and use the first group as an example. It is important to ensure the media now show the first group in a good light and any problems ignored while the new group has any issue spun to show it as dangerous to the majority.
Repeat this until the controlled group becomes the majority.
Then the remaining people should be vilified and labled as trouble makers and rebels.
They can then be crushed by the weight of the now controlled majority.

There have been P platers and learner drivers since the dawn of the driving era. The scroobys of the world want to control all of us and take away any freedom we have. They have used this method many times and we fall for it EVERY time.
Whatever is implemented for P platers will eventually be implemented for everyone and we will be convinced the WE thought of it and WE are doing it for the betterment of US when actually THEY are doing it for the betterment of THEM.

How about this idea.

Public servants and politicians are the "leaders" of our community and as such must set a good example. Therefore they should never make mistakes and THEY are the one who should have zero points. After all they have lots of experience and as they are smarter and better than the rest of us they don't need any room for error do they?

Somehow I don't think this will happen.....

[atec77]

Originally Posted by all4ford

"P-PLATE drivers will be given no second chances before having their licence cancelled under the toughest driving conditions yet being considered by the New South Wales Government."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21025660-2,00.html

I dont think this is too bad of an idea, however, I believe they should remove the loss of demerit points for trivial offences such as not showing your p-plate. I've known friends who have lost points because one of their p-plates have come off whilst driving. I'm sure everyone uses that excuse, and that is why your not believed when you say it fell off, but I think if you fine people for that, it is enough.

I think this could work well, by installing some fear in young drivers to say that if you get caught just once, its all over for 3 months and you have to go through that test all over again.

Suicide by the govco in NSW , training to drive instead of just pass the test and advanced training in high school is vital , voting the knuckleheads out is the only way ( and I am not a p plater) as it's very obvious the pollies have not one clue about the facts.

[xbgs351]

flappist is correct.

This is just the pointy end of the wedge. First it will be for first year P-platers, then it will be for all P-platers, then it will be for under 26 year olds, then it will be for under 30 year olds, then it will be for................

[Kryton]

wait till they think of the idea of L plates for 5 years......plenty of time to have proper training then.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by all4ford

"P-PLATE drivers will be given no second chances before having their licence cancelled under the toughest driving conditions yet being considered by the New South Wales Government."
I think this could work well, by installing some fear in young drivers to say that if you get caught just once, its all over for 3 months and you have to go through that test all over again.

Yep that will work about as well as the local magistrate here who banned a local driver (not on P plates) for something like 10yrs.

His offence. Second offence of driving whilst disqualified! So banning him will really work... yeah right.

I've never had P plates, but the media must love the rule that you now have to display them for 3 years instead of the old one year. Three times more P platers to pick on now!

[MITCHAY]

Well I hope they plan on injecting a heap into public transport because it will become overcrowded.

Oh how I don't miss P plates. The only bad thing about being on fulls is that the P plater chicks don't know you're still young : Every thing else is a +

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by flappist

Extract from the book of totalitarianism:

In order to control the population you must not allow them to realise that they are being controlled.
First take a small group and alienate it from the majority by propaganda and vilification showing this group is the major problem and the majority are ok.
Implement dogmatic control systems on this minority. The majority will not be worried because it does not affect them.
After this group is controlled then select another minority group and use the first group as an example. It is important to ensure the media now show the first group in a good light and any problems ignored while the new group has any issue spun to show it as dangerous to the majority.
Repeat this until the controlled group becomes the majority.
Then the remaining people should be vilified and labled as trouble makers and rebels.
They can then be crushed by the weight of the now controlled majority.

There have been P platers and learner drivers since the dawn of the driving era. The scroobys of the world want to control all of us and take away any freedom we have. They have used this method many times and we fall for it EVERY time.
Whatever is implemented for P platers will eventually be implemented for everyone and we will be convinced the WE thought of it and WE are doing it for the betterment of US when actually THEY are doing it for the betterment of THEM.

How about this idea.

Public servants and politicians are the "leaders" of our community and as such must set a good example. Therefore they should never make mistakes and THEY are the one who should have zero points. After all they have lots of experience and as they are smarter and better than the rest of us they don't need any room for error do they?

Somehow I don't think this will happen.....

: : : :

[will86]

well if this was the case when i got my Ps 2 years ago, i would have lost my licence 2 months after i got it.....

i was travelling to a local footy match final to watch some mates play in the very far out-skirts of Melbourne, took a right turn at a round-a-bout, and in the process of indicating i must have flicked my lights onto high beam.....i travelled maybe 300m down the road, passed an oncoming Police car, they turned around and pulled me over, at which stage my high beams where still on and fined me for not dipping my lights to on-coming traffic.

1 point and $138 fine

I wrote to Victoria Police and explained my case, they were not interested in it and told me:

"The exercise of discretion as to whether or not a member issues an Infringement Notice lies with the indervidual member of the Police Force, in the circumstances of the particular case. We will not intervene unless this discretionary power has clearly been used inappropriately. I do not believe this to be the case in your matter"

I do not doubt that i was in the wrong, not for a second. Having the Officer fining me.....or having him say "look mate you have your high beams on, turn them off and watch out for it because we can fine you".....would have bought about the exact same result.

Sound fair? That would be my licence gone under the proposed new NSW gov. changes for P Platers...

Ohh and by the way, that was 2 months after i got my licence, i am now turning 21 in 3 months and that is still the only Traffic Infringement Notice i have ever been served

[Abacus]

I seem to recall that when I was on my P's in 1977 you didn't have demerit points. Any infraction and you lost your licence. So what's new?

I was surprised to learn a few years ago that the demerit point system had been extended to P platers.

As for P platers losing their licence for "losing" their P plates - I've got no f.arking sympathy. Most P plates I see are just wedged behind a number plate, begging to fall off.

What's more, at least half of them seem to be deliberately obscured, with just a tiny bit of red or green P showing. If I was a cop I'd book every one I could see, just for being smart a**es.

Put on a bracket. Mount your P plate securely to the bracket. Glue or tape them if you have to. They won't fall off and you won't get booked. How hard is that?

[MITCHAY]

I had my P plates in those flate holders that attach to your numberplates. Then I got fuse wire and wired them in. One set of P plates for 3 years ;)

And would you believe it, a cop still didn't notice them. :

[desGT]

Originally Posted by flappist

Extract from the book of totalitarianism:

In order to control the population you must not allow them to realise that they are being controlled...

There have been P platers and learner drivers since the dawn of the driving era. The scroobys of the world want to control all of us and take away any freedom we have. They have used this method many times and we fall for it EVERY time.

Well said. Totally agree.

It has happened time and time again with speed limits. I am old enough to remember travelling Geelong to Melbourne with (//) signs - no speed limit. Now it is one of the safest freeways in Australia, and it is limited to an unbelieveable 100kph (with the spin doctors quoting the number of deaths, which includes pre-update deaths and non-speed deaths (the remainder!)).

Sorry, but 120, 140 or 160 are not dangerous speeds, or even 200 (you hear me N.T.!). As has been stated so many times on this forum (and other clubs), appropriate driver training is the problem.

Leave the "P" platers (the majority anyway) alone. Attack the real problem(s).

[Sapper]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I've never had P plates, but the media must love the rule that you now have to display them for 3 years instead of the old one year. Three times more P platers to pick on now!

Hey, thats a pretty good point. So thats why we hear about P platers so much more now...

Funny thing is, I heard Mr Scruby on the radio this morning condenming the idea of not allowing P platers to have a second chance. Go figure.

[MITCHAY]

What purpose do P plates actually serve anyway? All they do is create a target for people to ***** about.

Like I've said numerous times before, if there were no plates could your really tell the difference between them and a fully licenced driver?

Dickheads aren't limited to P plates.

[Keepleft]

MITCHAY wrote - What purpose do P plates actually serve anyway?

To alert other traffic the person is a noob driver and will not have long term experience blah blah blah, so be wary blah blah blah.

All they do is create a target for people to ***** about.

Sure, as they sometimes go about with great notice and with identifiable plate.

Like I've said numerous times before, if there were no plates could your really tell the difference between them and a fully licenced driver?

Sometimes, yes - but its always the small ****y lowest bottom < than 10% that cause havoc and issues. Always will.

Sometimes, when one of these characters stuff up and kill or injure someone, as part of their recovery, they become 'road safety experts' preaching the evils of speed at forums (not net), and other socialist events, where they show photgraphs of car crashes which only succeed in making young girls cry, and do NOTHING to teach em 'how to drive, look after their car, and how to behave on the road. Just that crashes are ugly oh dear whaaa.

Dickheads aren't limited to P plates.

No sir.

We have much attempt to control this young group, and suggest they cannnot drive this or that car, some try and make em be home by XX hour, YET - we expect an 18 year old to serve in the armed forces and possibly be killed in action or mis-adventure when joined in that.

The nanny-state threatens the western world.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by hot xr6

Hey, thats a pretty good point. So thats why we hear about P platers so much more now...

Funny thing is, I heard Mr Scruby on the radio this morning condenming the idea of not allowing P platers to have a second chance. Go figure.

Scruby should butt out of anything not concerning his precious drunken jaywalking pedestrians!

Lets just hope he never gets employed by the RTA. There's enough idiots there already.

[ebxr8240]

I can see a small loss of traction being written up as burnout!!
By By car for atlest 3 months...
Why do so few stuff it up for so many???

[poolkeeper]

This for new or existing p platers??

ooh first year of driving

[Wally]

Originally Posted by flappist

............
How about this idea.

Public servants and politicians are the "leaders" of our community and as such must set a good example. Therefore they should never make mistakes and THEY are the one who should have zero points. After all they have lots of experience and as they are smarter and better than the rest of us they don't need any room for error do they?

Imagine the reduction in traffic congestion after a couple of months and the rest of us would have carte blanche because there wouldn't be any police on the roads either and no one available to park speed vans.

[uranium_death]

Police: "Hello there young man/lady. I clocked you driving at 63 kilometres in a 60 zone back there. Are you aware that you were driving at a dangerous speed?"

Driver: "No. My speedometer is out it appears. It said I was driving at 59."

Police: "Stiff Tish. You've lost your license."

Driver: ******* you, @Rse|-|0|_E."

[jimmy_c]

The world is going anal quick smart. The govt needs to be thrown out for making stupid decisions.

They are in to help us. not to condjure up rubbish ideas. and they certainly dont need **** heads like Screwbit. adding there 3cents all the time.


and whats his push for private cameras.... another issue.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Are people not over discussing P Platers yet?

I'm with you on this one

[Jeeepers]

Not trying to be smart, and not trying to justify the topic of this thread. But when I went through my P's, there was 0 tolerence already in place. It was 1 strike, you're out. I was done for exceeding 60 kph. (76kph) and went to court, and did my brief for 3 months. (1979 in Victoria) No such thing as points. Just a comment.

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by ORSM T

Not trying to be smart, and not trying to justify the topic of this thread. But when I went through my P's, there was 0 tolerence already in place. . .

Same with me. I didn't know many who actually lost their license then. Those that did deserved to (mainly accidents that were their fault after hooning around).

When I first read this thread I thought zero tolerance was ok. Having thought more about it in today's curcumstances I think 3 points is more appropriate.

I'd also like to see the loss graded according to the offense so someone who regularly "loses" their P-plates off the car is suspended for a lesser time than someone who loses it for dangerous driving. An initial loss under points followed by a period on 0 points for a second disqualification might also work.