Not good news for the Australian automotive industry

Falcon Freak · 15-10-2006, 07:12 PM

It does not matter if you are from the blue or red side, the early signs are not promising for the VE Commodore. This is not good news for all who are involved in local automotive industry:Article from Sydney Morning Herald 13th October 2006.

FF

XR8putts · 15-10-2006, 07:29 PM

Lets just hope people think the VE is ugly

vztrt · 15-10-2006, 07:30 PM

Yeah the large car market is struggling, the shift from 6cyl cars to 4cyl cars has been huge since the jump in fuel prices.

Holden has been very worried the last two weeks.

XR Martin · 15-10-2006, 07:40 PM

Petrol is still cheap in the ME, so im sure they'll just export more.
Unfortunatly, Ford Aus doesnt have that luxury.

Falcon Freak · 15-10-2006, 07:41 PM

Here is another version of the same article.

FF

chich · 15-10-2006, 07:42 PM

Meh - the sooner then better if you ask me. Ford and Holden have had more than enough time to improve the quality and reliability of their cars but instead they insist on polishing turds and calling them 'cars'. Get Mr Howard to remove the 55% luxury car tax and lets see what happens to the Australian automotive industry..

Falcon Freak · 15-10-2006, 07:43 PM

Chich you should be concerned as Holden's sales performance impacts you too.

FF

chich · 15-10-2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Chich you should be concerned as Holden's sales performance impacts you too.

FF

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

ClevlndStemer · 15-10-2006, 07:55 PM

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

BlueJ · 15-10-2006, 07:56 PM

75% of the article's content was about Holden losing fleet sales on the back of pricing VEs to attract private buyers, but there was nothing much made of private sales. So I guess VE sales to private buyers might be around where Holden would like it to be?

If fleet buyers aren't buying VEs, wouldn't they be buying Falcons, Camrys (Aurions) or 380s instead - so won't the 'lost' VE fleet sales stay in the Australian made sector?

I smiled at the comparison between the VE sales strategy and Ford's AU sales strategy...I suppose the Holden management gurus didn't enjoy reading that bit.

Personally I think the VE styling is a bit fussy around the headlights, the front wheelarches are too prominent from oblique views and the fender vents are pure w*nk. I guess many buyers won't look too much deeper than that, and the VE unique feature - 50/50 weight distribution - would be irrelevant to 99% of buyers, even if they knew what it meant. Or maybe I am just cynical.

LethalLeigh · 15-10-2006, 07:57 PM

I heard that the fleet pricing jumped just after launch. It cost them a few customers in Adelaide, but I guess they want to make the cars more profitable. The question is, is it viable to try an produce cars at the quality of say BMW or Audi when the volume is nowhere near those manufacturers?

Edit: Fleet buyers are still out there, but they are hanging on to their vehicles for longer in the hope of some better pricing.

Outbackjack · 15-10-2006, 08:11 PM

One of the guys that I work with is going through the process of buying a new V8 VE. The fleet discount is pathetic. It's not like the car is worth it, compared to the XR8. For my self, the more I see of the VE the closer it looks to pig dog ugly. Maybe people just starting to think the same.

chich · 15-10-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

It is a sad thing to happen. Personally I think removing the tariffs on imports has also contributed to the decline of the Aussie large car. Ford and Holden need to bring a little more quality and value for money into their cars. They're not innovative enough with their flagship cars. I'd like to say i would get another falcon but i don't want to be burnt by crap quality again.

I agree with your comments 110%. The tariff reduction has definitely contributed to the decline of the industry because other people - namely the Japanese - build much better cars for the same amount of coin. This being the case, peoples expectations are much higher these days (rightly so).

In my opinion there are 4 main areas where Aussies cars fall over - quality, reliability, resale and dealer support.

lowriding · 15-10-2006, 08:47 PM

Silly article imo .That story doesnt say much at all , only compares sales of one month against sales of the first month of VT in 1997. I dont think anyone was expecting the market share to jump back to what it was 10 years ago !

XR Martin · 15-10-2006, 09:41 PM

Where are these much better Japanese cars? Where can you get a V8 or Turbo 6 large RWD sedan that runs 13s from Japan for $45k? Matter of fact you cant even get anything like it from Japan.
Where in the World can you get this? If you want similar from Europe you'd have to spend $150k.

15-10-2006, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Meh - the sooner then better if you ask me. Ford and Holden have had more than enough time to improve the quality and reliability of their cars but instead they insist on polishing turds and calling them 'cars'. Get Mr Howard to remove the 55% luxury car tax and lets see what happens to the Australian automotive industry..

Where the hell did you get 55%??

Falcon Freak · 15-10-2006, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

Government welfare payments won't get you behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 etc.

FF

Orbit · 15-10-2006, 09:50 PM

i honestly think the removal of the luxury car tax would be a godsend to competition...it would defintley have me considering a change to the euro's.
and i think it would do a lot to get the red and blue camps to really get serious about the product they produce or go home.

ltd · 15-10-2006, 09:52 PM

Was gonna say a couple of things but falcon freak and RATT already said them.
In real terms we are in a position where our cars are much better than before, and considering so many jap and euro cars are made in places like India and China I wouldn't be pushing that alleged "Japanese Quality" nonsense. Where do you think the ML's are made?

Tles · 15-10-2006, 09:56 PM

Holden and I reckon Ford too, are realising that the competition is killing them by keeping resale values up. Better to make and sell less cars into the market with better profit per vehicle and better specification per vehicle. Then resale should start to climb back up as the cars become more desirable (not just private taxis), and private buyers and user choosers willl return.
Fleet managers will turn around in a couple of years and see they are better getting the dollars when they quit the vehicles than when they buy them. We private buyers will be better off too as we will be able to enjoy our cars more, get a better value package for our quids, and update more often than once a century.

chich · 15-10-2006, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Where are these much better Japanese cars? Where can you get a V8 or Turbo 6 large RWD sedan that runs 13s from Japan for $45k? Matter of fact you cant even get anything like it from Japan.
Where in the World can you get this? If you want similar from Europe you'd have to spend $150k.

Honda Accord Euro and Subaru Liberty come to mind. As Toyota's sales prove on a global scale time and time again, 99% of new car buyers don't give a rats if the Falcadorres are capable of 13's off the showroom floor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Where in the World can you get this? If you want similar from Europe you'd have to spend $150k.

$150K in Australia - not in the rest of the world. An M3 for example sells here in Australia for $140K where in the States it sells for the equivalent of $65K Aussie. Here's a rhetorical question for you.. If it was a level playing field (0% luxury car tax and 0% tariffs) which would you buy - a falcon/commodore or an M3?

chich · 15-10-2006, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Government welfare payments won't get you behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 etc.

FF

Believe it or not other industries exist too..

BroncosXR8 · 15-10-2006, 10:21 PM

I like to think that i agree with both sides of the camp on this one.
While i love my Fords (and even a few holdens), they both really need to improve on the chich brung up.
The only reason we aspire to own XR8's Turbos GT's and whatnot is that most of us cant afford and therefor havent had much exposure to the overseas brands (im talking luxury/performance here, not corollas and ****).
These cars DO cost a bucketload, and much of that can be attributed to the import taxs.
The quality of our local cars while it has been drastically improving in the last decade or so, still is light years away from European and Japanese. I do acknowledge not all those cars are not made in they're respective countries - but the Middle Eastern guys probably say that about the Chevys/Holdens that they buy!
While some of the features may be disregarded as gimmicks and gadgets - but jump in a new Merc or Audi and just see what the car does for you, things that a relatively inexpense to implement but arent because we dont expect them of our local companies. Things such as locking the car and all the lights automatically turn off the windows winding themselves up.

XR Martin · 15-10-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Honda Accord Euro and Subaru Liberty come to mind. As Toyota's sales prove time and time again on a global scale, 99% of new car buyers don't give a rats if the Falcadorres are capable of 13's off the showroom floor.

$150K in Australia - not in the rest of the world. An M3 for example sells here in Australia for $140K where in the States it sells for the equivalent of $65K Aussie. Here's a rhetorical question for you.. If it was a level playing field (0% luxury car tax and 0% tariffs) which would you buy - a falcon/commodore or an M3?

Why compare it to the US? They have a massive market, so profit margins can be less
What about Europe?
A Fiesta is $21k, Mondeo is $40k and a BMW M3 is $115k (+ CO2 tax - I think 35%) in the UK

Falcon Freak · 15-10-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Believe it or not other industries exist too..

Manufacturing industries? There are not that many as there used to be and from what I see they are decreasing with each passing year. If you take a close look at the G7 nations, most if not all of them have large manufacturing industries. Countries which rely upon services, tourism and resources will never be as successful as those who manufacture and export products.

FF

Mutley · 15-10-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

To be perfectly honest i really don't give a flying **** about Holdens or Fords sales performance. The easier the government makes it for me to get behind the wheel of an RS4, E55 or M3 the happier i am :eclipsee_

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Full Spectrum · 15-10-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Honda Accord Euro and Subaru Liberty come to mind. As Toyota's sales prove on a global scale time and time again, 99% of new car buyers don't give a rats if the Falcadorres are capable of 13's off the showroom floor.

$150K in Australia - not in the rest of the world. An M3 for example sells here in Australia for $140K where in the States it sells for the equivalent of $65K Aussie. Here's a rhetorical question for you.. If it was a level playing field (0% luxury car tax and 0% tariffs) which would you buy - a falcon/commodore or an M3?

A Falcadoor

XR Martin · 15-10-2006, 10:30 PM

BMW and Merc quality is terrible, people think you spend that much and its from Germany its got to be good, but they are very far from that.

Mutley · 15-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chich

Honda Accord Euro and Subaru Liberty come to mind. As Toyota's sales prove on a global scale time and time again, 99% of new car buyers don't give a rats if the Falcadorres are capable of 13's off the showroom floor.

$150K in Australia - not in the rest of the world. An M3 for example sells here in Australia for $140K where in the States it sells for the equivalent of $65K Aussie. Here's a rhetorical question for you.. If it was a level playing field (0% luxury car tax and 0% tariffs) which would you buy - a falcon/commodore or an M3?

I think you are on the wrong forum. Thanks for sharing your informed opinion with us commoners tonight. If it was a level playing field, it would be nice to start with access to chinese manufacturing, honest reporting and evaluation and a market the size of BMW's.

15-10-2006, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mutley

What criteria do you base your 'informed' appreciation of quality on. Coming from the bush, the reliability of Australian built sedans is equal to, if not better than imported cars.

You pedal a tired argument indeed. I've listened to arguments about how European quality exceeds Australian quality for over thirty years. Its just funny how you don't see any surviving 30 year old European specials that have had a hard life, but I don't think too many Australian cars of that era have escaped harsher treatment.

Perhaps if European cars were run new at the drags every weekend with a 50 - 200hp boost, left outside in the weather, flogged down gravel roads, used as hire cars or police cars, spent Saturday nights at illegal street drags instead of the under cover opera car park or their days at a suburban coles or woolies carpark instead of a heated carpark underneath the boardroom, they may look a little worse for wear after a couple of years!

I think if you look a little deeper into what constitutes quality, our cars are not as bad as you make out.

Thanks Mutley. I couldn't agree more.

How little some people know of what quality is really all about. Many things do go wrong on Mercs and BMW's that we will never hear about. Anything from driveline shunt on M5 to stability program failures amongst other gizmos that cark it.