The gradual removal of the "average/family" enthusiast choice

[Polyal]

Pretext: I do have a small personal agenda here as I am on the look out for a new daily in Feb and thought this may be an interesting discussion

Looking to get some perspective on something I have noticed of late after making a decision to relocate. With the price of fuel going through a spike, and lets face it I cant see it going to "lower" levels any time soon I have been researching a new daily that is good on fuel but is also a manual..not so easy.

As much as I would like a Falcon I have had my share before, they are great, but to thirsty for a daily (for me). Also after a manual as the kids are getting to the stage were I want to teach them the skill.

If at all possible I am looking for the following;

• Seats 5 min
• Manual
• Ideally less than 100,000 - the lower the better
• RWD (could be swayed)
• Ideally less than 100,000 - the lower the better
• Nothing older than 2000
• <$30k
• lower fuel consumption the better..around 8-9 combined L/100

So, finding anything >2013 in this spec is nearly impossible. Slightly open to bending on some criteria but unless you want a hatch back its slim pickings these days.

Some options I have found so far;

Honda Accord Euro R

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7380015/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...19424491/?Cr=0

Yeah its an import bit most of the bits are normal Accord or DC5 Type R so it shouldnt be an issue. Like the looks, the powertrain, but its FWD so no skids.


Toyota Altezza RS200

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7380960/?Cr=0

Seems pretty good, should be reliable, RWD is good, bit gutless but hey its a daily so does it matter? Runs a 200HP "beams" engine which looks like fun.

BMW 1 Series (hatch)

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20345210/?Cr=0

I love the look of the coupe but its only 4 seats, need to go to the hatch for 5. RWD and can get the 3.0L and manual so that's a win.


The other option is to say stuff it, just get some TDi thing and save some cash for another side toy but I'm trying to keep the full rego count <=2 in the family.

Anyway, thought it was interesting as it seems these days the only way to get a manual is via high performance or a small hatch.

[bb_zetec]

I went through a similar thing the last few months looking for a manual station Wagon to replace our slushbox VF Wagon.

Nothing came up except the Skoda Octavia RS Wagon built in 2018. Post 2018 they are DSG/Auto Only.

They are a FWD But Pack a 2.0L Turbo. Might be something to Consider?

There is an RS Sedan as well.

Really there is nothing Manual available anymore that is considered a "daily" driver. I think manual days are numbered in general.

Our decision in the end was to get rid of the Wagon altogether and upgrade to an XR6 Turbo ute....dont ask me how we ended up to that rationale.

Using the Missus Grand Vitara now as a daily hack instead...which too is a manual. Its RWD, but the performance isint anything to write home about being a 2.4L 5 Speed. But once it gets moving its pretty good.

[Ford17]

Although a FWD hatch, the Focus RS might otherwise be a good option.

[Franco Cozzo]

MA/MB Mondeo XR5s pop up from time to time

6sp manual
2.5L Volvo I5T
FWD but made by Ford Europe so its not a complete potato
Similar dimensions to Falcon internally, but narrower.
Diesel torque at the same low RPM but without potato spec power

At the moment the ones available for sale have high kilometers but sometimes a good low mileage example pops up.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7374084/?Cr=0

They're generally much cheaper, a bit bigger than Focus XR5 Turbo and less likely to be modified as well.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

MA/MB Mondeo XR5s pop up from time to time

6sp manual
2.5L Volvo I5T
FWD but made by Ford Europe so its not a complete potato
Similar dimensions to Falcon internally, but narrower.
Diesel torque at the same low RPM but without potato spec power

At the moment the ones available for sale have high kilometers but sometimes a good low mileage example pops up.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7374084/?Cr=0

They're generally much cheaper, a bit bigger than Focus XR5 Turbo and less likely to be modified as well.

much newer car for half the coin

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

MA/MB Mondeo XR5s pop up from time to time

6sp manual
2.5L Volvo I5T
FWD but made by Ford Europe so its not a complete potato
Similar dimensions to Falcon internally, but narrower.
Diesel torque at the same low RPM but without potato spec power

At the moment the ones available for sale have high kilometers but sometimes a good low mileage example pops up.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7374084/?Cr=0

They're generally much cheaper, a bit bigger than Focus XR5 Turbo and less likely to be modified as well.

Yes have driven them before and they are OK, but as you state its difficult to find one that hasnt got bulk km's. Otherwise not a bad option although between it and the Euro R I think the Honda may be a bit better overall if I was to go FWD?

Originally Posted by bb_zetec

I went through a similar thing the last few months looking for a manual station Wagon to replace our slushbox VF Wagon.

Nothing came up except the Skoda Octavia RS Wagon built in 2018. Post 2018 they are DSG/Auto Only.

They are a FWD But Pack a 2.0L Turbo. Might be something to Consider?

There is an RS Sedan as well.

Really there is nothing Manual available anymore that is considered a "daily" driver. I think manual days are numbered in general.

Our decision in the end was to get rid of the Wagon altogether and upgrade to an XR6 Turbo ute....dont ask me how we ended up to that rationale.

Using the Missus Grand Vitara now as a daily hack instead...which too is a manual. Its RWD, but the performance isint anything to write home about being a 2.4L 5 Speed. But once it gets moving its pretty good.

Yeah dont mind Skoda and will have another look, the other one was the Renualt Megane GT220 wagon but they are getting snapped up at the moment.

Actually as we speak I just found this.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/ren...-transmission/

Originally Posted by Ford17

Although a FWD hatch, the Focus RS might otherwise be a good option.

By RS you mean the 5 cylinder one? The prices of those have gone mental (>$40k from what I see) so while it would be awesome I dont think ill find one in my range.


I was kind of keen to do the odd track open day for fun as well, hence the RS200 or Euro R looking like it would be a hoot.

[kypez]

I bought a Mini recently but that doesn't fit your minimum 5 seats. Not quite the family hack to be fair as well but thats how hard it is to find a manual.

Also, don't think its been a gradual thing. Its been happening for a while now and has moved faster year after year.

Focus RS will be HIGH priced! If you can find a Focus manual, you might be able to find one for cheaper. Even a Laser for early 2000's? They were a great car.

[Ford17]

Originally Posted by Polyal

By RS you mean the 5 cylinder one? The prices of those have gone mental (>$40k from what I see) so while it would be awesome I dont think ill find one in my range.


I was kind of keen to do the odd track open day for fun as well, hence the RS200 or Euro R looking like it would be a hoot.

Sorry - was thinking ST but typed RS.

But either way, the Ford hot hatches are highly rated in Europe, and are currently one of the last of the breed of affordable performance cars still available.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yes have driven them before and they are OK, but as you state its difficult to find one that hasnt got bulk km's. Otherwise not a bad option although between it and the Euro R I think the Honda may be a bit better overall if I was to go FWD?




Yeah dont mind Skoda and will have another look, the other one was the Renualt Megane GT220 wagon but they are getting snapped up at the moment.

Actually as we speak I just found this.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/ren...-transmission/



By RS you mean the 5 cylinder one? The prices of those have gone mental (>$40k from what I see) so while it would be awesome I dont think ill find one in my range.


I was kind of keen to do the odd track open day for fun as well, hence the RS200 or Euro R looking like it would be a hoot.

The Euro R is nice but think of a car the size of the Mondeo but with 60% the torque, and what little torque it does have, comes in at over 6000 RPM and its peak power is at 8000 RPM.

Fun to get stuck into and really rip through all the gears, but you'll get smashed by Nanna on the way to Bingo in her 1987 SV21 Camry if you aren't constantly getting into it.

Go drive the Euro R anyway, would be engaging to drive but you might find it a bit halal to live with as a daily family car when you've got the little ones in it and the missus and it hardly moves away from the lights unless you rip it to 6000 RPM.

I'd be heading towards something with boost to get some fat mid range torque back that's a bit nicer to live with as the daily.

If you don't mind something older and you don't mind the import then what about something like a JZS171W Toyota Crown or a JZS161 Toyota Aristo?

1JZGTE VVTI or 2JZGTE VVTI in those cars, the former comes in a wagon, the latter is a Jap XR6T, be inclined for the JZS171W though as it only has one turbo without complicated vacuum controlled twin turbo junk that's about the right age to crap out.

Getting long in the tooth though, and you've missed the boat on the price increases, they've doubled in value in the past two years and they're just as thirsty as anything else with balls under the hood.

EDIT: Both not manual, but at least they're RWD lol, though at the price of the things be better off with a BF XR6T.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The Euro R is nice but think of a car the size of the Mondeo but with 60% the torque, and what little torque it does have, comes in at over 6000 RPM and its peak power is at 8000 RPM.

Fun to get stuck into and really rip through all the gears, but you'll get smashed by Nanna on the way to Bingo in her 1987 SV21 Camry if you aren't constantly getting into it.

Go drive the Euro R anyway, would be engaging to drive but you might find it a bit halal to live with as a daily family car when you've got the little ones in it and the missus and it hardly moves away from the lights unless you rip it to 6000 RPM.

I'd be heading towards something with boost to get some fat mid range torque back that's a bit nicer to live with as the daily.

If you don't mind something older and you don't mind the import then what about something like a JZS171W Toyota Crown or a JZS161 Toyota Aristo?

1JZGTE VVTI or 2JZGTE VVTI in those cars, the former comes in a wagon, the latter is a Jap XR6T, be inclined for the JZS171W though as it only has one turbo without complicated vacuum controlled twin turbo junk that's about the right age to crap out.

Getting long in the tooth though, and you've missed the boat on the price increases, they've doubled in value in the past two years and they're just as thirsty as anything else with balls under the hood.

EDIT: Both not manual, but at least they're RWD lol, though at the price of the things be better off with a BF XR6T.

RE: Euro R...yeah no doubt it will be like a whipper snipper but it seems to be an all rounder...seems tragic it is FWD.

Im not really after a bulk power machine, I was just trying to avoid getting anything too boring and a quick fang now and then appeals.

Im down with the old school Japanese but we want something a bit more modern...1990's is pushing it.

Originally Posted by kypez

I bought a Mini recently but that doesn't fit your minimum 5 seats. Not quite the family hack to be fair as well but thats how hard it is to find a manual.

Also, don't think its been a gradual thing. Its been happening for a while now and has moved faster year after year.

Focus RS will be HIGH priced! If you can find a Focus manual, you might be able to find one for cheaper. Even a Laser for early 2000's? They were a great car.

Yeah there are so many good hot hatches is crazy, but with a family of 6 the second car needs to fit 5 just incase the 7 seater is out.

Laser might be pushing the retro feels for me, I do remember those SR2's but thats getting a bit on.

Originally Posted by Ford17

Sorry - was thinking ST but typed RS.

But either way, the Ford hot hatches are highly rated in Europe, and are currently one of the last of the breed of affordable performance cars still available.

Actually there are some decent looking ones and they are good on paper.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7440825/?Cr=2

Crazy low km's..and cheap?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20343260/?Cr=4

The LZ looks a bit nicer but more $$..and is it that much better than the Renault GT220 above?

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...1990819/?Cr=11

[Franco Cozzo]

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...AG-AD-20383404

It's a Corolla but with 3.5L V6, if your kids don't have legs this will probably be a decent buy

It's like all the downsides of the Aurion with none of the benefits.

[smoo]

Alfa 159 diesel. You'll struggle to find a better looking modern sedan (IMO). These Fiat diesels have a reasonable reputation for reliability also.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2018646/?Cr=14

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Alfa 159 diesel. You'll struggle to find a better looking modern sedan (IMO). These Fiat diesels have a reasonable reputation for reliability also.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2018646/?Cr=14

But it's surrounded by an Alfa Romeo

They do look gorgeous though.

[bb_zetec]

I was ready to bite the bullet on the Octavia RS Wagon but the Wife diddnt like the back seats and the only manual one i could find near me was in black.

They rate well in Europe so if you can find a good one might be worth a test drive.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Pretext: I do have a small personal agenda here as I am on the look out for a new daily in Feb and thought this may be an interesting discussion

Looking to get some perspective on something I have noticed of late after making a decision to relocate. With the price of fuel going through a spike, and lets face it I cant see it going to "lower" levels any time soon I have been researching a new daily that is good on fuel but is also a manual..not so easy.

As much as I would like a Falcon I have had my share before, they are great, but to thirsty for a daily (for me). Also after a manual as the kids are getting to the stage were I want to teach them the skill.

If at all possible I am looking for the following;

• Seats 5 min
• Manual
• Ideally less than 100,000 - the lower the better
• RWD (could be swayed)
• Ideally less than 100,000 - the lower the better
• Nothing older than 2000
• <$30k
• lower fuel consumption the better..around 8-9 combined L/100

So, finding anything >2013 in this spec is nearly impossible. Slightly open to bending on some criteria but unless you want a hatch back its slim pickings these days.

Some options I have found so far;

Honda Accord Euro R

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7380015/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...19424491/?Cr=0

Yeah its an import bit most of the bits are normal Accord or DC5 Type R so it shouldnt be an issue. Like the looks, the powertrain, but its FWD so no skids.


Toyota Altezza RS200

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7380960/?Cr=0

Seems pretty good, should be reliable, RWD is good, bit gutless but hey its a daily so does it matter? Runs a 200HP "beams" engine which looks like fun.

BMW 1 Series (hatch)

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20345210/?Cr=0

I love the look of the coupe but its only 4 seats, need to go to the hatch for 5. RWD and can get the 3.0L and manual so that's a win.


The other option is to say stuff it, just get some TDi thing and save some cash for another side toy but I'm trying to keep the full rego count <=2 in the family.

Anyway, thought it was interesting as it seems these days the only way to get a manual is via high performance or a small hatch.

I'm about to sell our Astra VXR. It fits all of the criteria you listed other than the RWD part. It's 2 door though. But the front seats flip forward very easily and we have never had a problem with our kids getting in the back.

They are pretty well specced. 206kW, leather heated Recaros, Brembos, LSD, adjustable dampening, sat nav, 20" wheels, dual zone climate etc.

[naddis01]

[simon varley]

not sure they tick the 'enthusiast' box, but there are a few Tiguans around

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7278233/?Cr=2

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But it's surrounded by an Alfa Romeo

They do look gorgeous though.

To be honest I don't know how one of those Alfa would hold up to every day use, especially with kids. Probably be ok as a weekender.
First choice would be a Citroen C5 wagon with the same PSA 3.0 turbo diesel V6 as the Land Rover, Jag, Ford F150(?), but theres bugger all around.

In any case, both are preferable to the trash from VW.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by naddis01

image

Yeah they are tidy, there is an insignia VXR around town and it actually sounds alright. But definitely cant do 2 doors.

The reason I am looking at the sporty options is purely selfish but also wanting something out of the norm as I fear after this we will probably go EV.

Otherwise I have the below options which are a bit more sensible and plain Jane (still nice). But not manual or sporty, just good on fuel and comfy which perhaps is the way I should go...just dont want too.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-7444317/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20331624/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20219269/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...20314207/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6356088/?Cr=0

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...4-35bfb9cc097b

Couple over 30k but Im sure I could get them down.

Dont even get me started on how much Id want this, but also comes with normal B series issues.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...11988067/?Cr=0

[DFB FGXR6]

A little over your $30K limit, but these tick a lot of boxes for me, and the best steering of any car I have ever driven -

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/jaguar/xe/under-40000/

[DJM83]

Im a little biased, but a Focus XR5 would be a good option (i know FWD) or even a Focus ST.
XR5 can be thirsty sometimes though depends on how you drive it though, much like anything else.

[FroudeyBrand]

I'd say "get a low km forester like SF" 5 speed option, low fuel consumption but alas the average kms on those are between 200+ thou I owned one didn't miss abeat and I regret selling it as I've come to find out that it sits unregistered somewhere near the Gong....

[FG GeeTee]

What about a WRX?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FG GeeTee

What about a WRX?

Drug money for what you get

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FroudeyBrand

I'd say "get a low km forester like SF" 5 speed option, low fuel consumption but alas the average kms on those are between 200+ thou I owned one didn't miss abeat and I regret selling it as I've come to find out that it sits unregistered somewhere near the Gong....

Why would an enthusiast buy something as dull as a Forester?

[FroudeyBrand]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Why would an enthusiast buy something as dull as a Forester?

Dull? I am not sure to be offended or agree lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FroudeyBrand

Dull? I am not sure to be offended or agree lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well OP is looking for something sporty and fun to drive.

[FroudeyBrand]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Well OP is looking for something sporty and fun to drive.

Oh they can be ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Polyal]

WRX not totally out of the question but my understanding was it will drink as good as a XR6T when given some beans? Also any decent ones without bulk km's seem to be >30k with the covid/JDM inflation.

[fiestaz]

RWD makes it damn tough. Not a lot out there.

Focus STs are everywhere. Decent boot, rear legroom not great but may work for you. Fantastic fun and pretty reliable. Manual too.