Brake Pads And Rotors

GTHOXR8 · 22-10-2005, 06:59 AM

I recently installed some new PROTEK rotors and pads on my AU Forte (2000).
The brake performance and feel is now woeful and I suspect its the pads. They came packaged with the rotors as a bonus. They are particularly bad in the wet when as you brake, nothing happens at all, until the discs dry out and then the car starts to slow - scary stuff. Now when I drive in the wet, especially on the highway, I keep riding the brake a touch every now and then to ensure I have brakes when I need them.

My question if anyone can help is, Can brake pads make such a difference? If yes, what pads do you recommend?

Any suggestions and advice, greatly appreciated

22-10-2005, 07:14 AM

were they fitted professionally ??
It maybe that they weren't bedded in ..
Pads can make a big difference but ive never heard of things beenind that bad.

GTHOXR8 · 22-10-2005, 07:21 AM

Thanks Stampy
I fitted them myself and have done so in the past on other Falcons, but never before on my AU. I did bed them in but perhaps now looking back it was not for long enough.

This could be it, otherwise I thought it was because they were 'home brand' pads.

rag top · 22-10-2005, 07:37 AM

I'm running 'home brand' pads in the wife's wagon. She wanted to be tight with the $$, so I told her there was a cheap set available and she said to get them.

They are a poor performer to the previous pads and they tend to squeal when warmed up. The good thing is it has changed her driving style, and she doesn't sit on the brakes all the time, and the fuel economy has improved.

One of the upgrades in the near future will be new discs and pads. I'll be looking for something similar to the Bendix Ultimates, as I had them in an old car and they do make a big difference.

GTHOXR8 · 22-10-2005, 07:50 AM

I recall using Bendix on a previous car and they were fine.

Regarding bedding in brakes, anyone got any suggestions and if you get brake pads fitted at Ford would they bed them in?

**FTE217** · 22-10-2005, 12:01 PM

well if they don't bed in pads they are not listening to the experts which sternly advise bedding in procedures. Something like going up to 60k's and appling the pedal firmly 10 - 12 times.
Just recently Bendix released their new pads which have a Teflon band going across the pad, this does not require the usual bedding in process.
The Protex pads arn't too bad at all really, it sounds like you didn't bed them in.

GTHOXR8 · 22-10-2005, 12:25 PM

After I installed them, I did undergo a process of making a series of stops, but perhaps I did not generate enough heat. When reading thru the bendix website they recommend building up the heat slowly and steadily and making repeated stops.

Can I rectify the problem or are the pads stuffed?

romaniac · 22-10-2005, 05:12 PM

i just got new rotors in the front installed with fedoro zero pads, the guy told me to go easy on the brakes for the first 100 or so kms. Should I bed them in after that?

**Peuty** · 22-10-2005, 09:27 PM

I got a set of the Bendix pads that do not need bedding in. They seem fine from the word go.

xr8 007 · 22-10-2005, 10:12 PM

yeah take it easy for at least the first 200kays!!

23-10-2005, 09:06 PM

On the topic of rotors, is $250 a pair for the front fitted a fair price?

Mine are warped, and theres not enough left to machine. And the squealing is ****ing me off!

romaniac · 25-10-2005, 03:25 PM

yeh sounds good, mine were 300 for dba slotted plus another 50 fitting

25-10-2005, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romaniac

yeh sounds good, mine were 300 for dba slotted plus another 50 fitting

What are the stock rotors on au2 forte?

I don't mind paying a little extra. Specially with me getting some rims soon, give those brakes a nicer look

romaniac · 25-10-2005, 04:42 PM

not sure what the stock ones are but they arent slotted. They are just a plain rotor. Slotted help remove more heat and therefore better braking

JC · 25-10-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangers

What are the stock rotors on au2 forte?

I don't mind paying a little extra. Specially with me getting some rims soon, give those brakes a nicer look

Are you looking to upgrade from AU1 rotors to AU2? If so, bank on at least $1200 for all the bits you need. It's not just rotors, but uprights, sway bar, callipers, etc.

25-10-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC-XRWgn

Are you looking to upgrade from AU1 rotors to AU2? If so, bank on at least $1200 for all the bits you need. It's not just rotors, but uprights, sway bar, callipers, etc.

Well no, I've got an AU2.

I'm REALLY sick and tired of my brakes squeeling, so thats my first priority, then better braking and looks. I don't drive my car hard, I leave that up to my motorbike

JC · 25-10-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangers

Well no, I've got an AU2.

Oops, looks like I read something wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangers

I don't drive my car hard, I leave that up to my motorbike

Your motorbike drives your car hard? LOL.

DBA Slotted rotors for the front of an AU2 are around $130 each from Supercheap Auto. Worth getting over the standard rotors, and fitting should only take about 20 minutes - say $50. They recommend you change pads at the same time, so that will be extra.

26-10-2005, 09:16 AM

Why can't i just sand down my current Bendix Ultimates?

geckoGT · 26-10-2005, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bangers

Why can't i just sand down my current Bendix Ultimates?

Because can you be sure you will sand them square? It is unlikely that you will and therefore you will have uneven pad contact.

Also it is not the cooling that slots really help with, removing metal of the disc will actually marginally decrease its capability of handling heat. It is the fact that the slots prevent the pad from glazing, allow the escape of gases produced at the pad face and aid in the expulsion of water and debris etc that aids the braking.

26-10-2005, 03:14 PM

Oh ok, thanks.

So, whats a good matching pad for thise slotted rotors?

Now looking back, I know I made the wrong choice chosing Ultimates, as they are WAYY to dusty, and they squeel really bad. Also, in the morning or afternoon, when they are cold, they make a bad/loud squeel for a few seconds until they warm up (sounds terrible).

So With the above in mind, what's a good pad for me? Moreso worried about squeeling than performance, but obviously I don't want to get the worst performing ones.

geckoGT · 26-10-2005, 04:26 PM

I have heard gret things from Jabba about QFM pads, been in his car and it really does pull up well. Not sure what the dust is like but if you need more info, send Jabba a PM. I have also heard lots of good things about EBC greens. I will probably go the QFM next but I heard they are similar to the EBC's.

28-10-2005, 06:11 AM

EBC Green' s ??? when i went to get them i was told they dont make them for the AUII at all .??

GTHOXR8 · 28-10-2005, 06:20 AM

geckoxr8, you mention pad glazing. I reckon that is what is wrong with my brakes. when wet, nothing happens for a while. It's like being on a push bike. You have to wait till the water dries off for a bit. Once pads are glazed can you fix them ?

jabba · 28-10-2005, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTHOXR8

geckoxr8, you mention pad glazing. I reckon that is what is wrong with my brakes. when wet, nothing happens for a while. It's like being on a push bike. You have to wait till the water dries off for a bit. Once pads are glazed can you fix them ?

Mate all brakes are like that when they are wet. That is why when you cross through water, you are suppose to drag your brakes for about 15 sec to dry them out. To check if the rotors are glazed, look at the rotors if they are shiny patches on the rotor, I would then say that the rotors a glazed and the need machining..

XR Davo · 28-10-2005, 11:33 AM

Just had 4 new rotors and pads fitted to my AU1 cost $480 which I thought was a good deal. Pads are Bendix Heavy Duty. Brake guy said Ultimates although very good will wear out rotors very quickly apparently they are quite abrasive. Pads seem to bed in straight away and car pulls up really well now (for an AU1) and no more wobbles.

geckoGT · 28-10-2005, 11:39 AM

Have to aggree with Jabba on that one. It is a characteristic of all brakes that initial application in water will be fairly ordinary, that is why we moved to disc brakes, they dry off quicker. Water is also a problem with some higher performance pads that they require some operating temp, the water cools the rotor down and optimum braking is not achieved until the temp is up again. Of course slotted or crossdrilled rotors will assist reducing the effect of water due to the easier escape of water from between the pad and rotor. Another factor that will assist is bigger is better, the more friction surface you have, the more friction and therefore greater braking. That is why I would opt for a larger rotor setup with slotting over a standard size with slotting, a standard size rotor with slotting actually has less friction surface than without slotting, although this is offset somewhat by the positive effects of slotting. The end result, stock size plain rotor not so good, slotted stock size better and slotted upsize rotors are better again. That is without looking at the thermal capacity of the rotors, excessive heat is the worst enemy of good braking.
You may find as jabba has said that your rotors are glazed, this will give a very shiny, almost glassy looking finish. If they are you can guarantee your pads are too. Best option is replace the pads and rotors, next is to machine rotors and replace pads and the last option is to machine the rotors but keep your pads. The freshly machined rotor will dress the pads if you bed them in properly, don't abuse them straight up. Some will say that you can dress the pads with sandpaper, I have found this does not work as it is almost impossible to get them square and therefore you end up with uneven pad contact. This will end up causing uneven wear on the rotor and a vicious circle commences.
As for all things this is a question of budget, the more you pay the better you get. I tend to spend big on brakes as I would prefer to know my brakes are there when I need them. My pads at this stage are the ones that came with my kit but they will be replaced with better when they wear out. At the moment they are still considerably better than stock and I would suggest they will out brake a stock size slotted rotor during repeated brake applications, can't wait to get better pads!

GTHOXR8 · 29-10-2005, 07:01 AM

Thanks geckoxr8, certainly alot of issues to consider. When I mentioned about the lack of brakes when wet, I was meaning to say, since I changed rotors and pads, it is now noticeably worse then before.
I just had a look at the rotors and they look pretty shiny. What causes them to glaze?

geckoGT · 29-10-2005, 12:48 PM

I am not too sure of that one, I suppose some pad materials will be more likely to do it than others especially when combined with lots of really light braking. Did you notice the decrease in braking (wet) immediately after fitting the new rotors? Maybe the new rotors and pads were not bedded in properly. I had a big problem with glazing rotors before I had my new brakes fitted. You could also hear the brakes dragging and the car was very heavy to push when shifting it forward in the garage. It was no different when I had the new brakes fitted and we found there was air in the ABS module that was causing pressure on the brakes when it was hot under the bonnet (air expands and caused the pressure in the lines, my theory anyway). It was all fixed the moment I had the ABS unit bled.
I am sure there are others around that can give a better explanation than I can and maybe even give some advice on prevention, I can tell you I have not had a glazed rotor since going slotted.

GTHOXR8 · 29-10-2005, 01:50 PM

Thanks again Geckoxr8 for all your advice and ideas. Regarding the loss of brake performance in the wet, I noticed it first time it rained heavily. It was never like this with the original rotors and previous pads. I reckon you are right regarding the glazing due to not being bedded in right. I don't think I got them hot enough and should have been more aggressive.

OldManGhia · 06-11-2005, 08:39 AM

Had my rotors and pads replaced by a mechanic. He put in standard rotors and Zircon pads that I had never heard of before. He assured me that the pads were good performers. In realty they were crap. The squealed every time the brakes were applied and the car became really scarry to drive in the wet. After two trips back to the mechanic and a lot of reading here on the Forums I put in the Bendix Advance pads myself. The dont make a mess of the mags with lots of dust, they dont squeal and breaking performance id pretty good. Next time I'll put on a pair of slotted rotors instead of the standard ones. They are so easy to change yourself not like on the old EBII I had.

PS Anyone want a set of Zircon pads?