2008 Mondeo Tracking problem?

Treny · 03-03-2010, 12:34 PM

Any other owners notice their Mondeos tracking on uneven road surfaces? I have been told by Pedders that it could be a tyre issue. They suggested going to a smaller rim and larger profile tyre. Mine has the original 17" rims and Goodyear Excellence tyres fitted. Anyone have similar issues and better still a fix. It is more annoying than anything else as the car is brilliant and the diesel engine tops it off.

used

obione980 · 03-03-2010, 04:21 PM

Nope! No such issue observed.

AlanD · 03-03-2010, 04:35 PM

Well,

Evidently there are good Pedders franchises and bad ones, according to other posts that I have read.

But I would have trouble in believing that an altered tyre/rim combination that preserved the rolling radius of the wheel would have much effect.

I'm informed that poor tracking is nearly always tracable to a caster problem, because it is this setting that provides the self centreing action for the steering and maintains straight line tracking (any tedency to wander off line gets corrected, unless there is a steering input).

Questions:

1. How many km traveled?
2. How long since a wheel alignment?
3. Any signs of differential tyre wear across the tread face?
4. Any substantial shocks handed out to the front end, such as hitting a kerb, potholes and the like?
5. Are the rough roads you travel on rougher on one side or have corrugations especially on one side of the car?

Any of these or combinations of them can upset wheel alignment.

Finally, did the Pedders you visited have a tyre/wheel franchise as well or were associated with one close by? You can probably work out why I'm asking this question for yourself.

Our MA Mondeo has travelled about 6,000 km so far, we live on an unsealed road that gets pretty chewed up between the grader coming along. We have not noticed any tracking problem so far - fingers crossed.

Cheers

bovva66 · 03-03-2010, 05:21 PM

Had some tracking issues (puling to right) prior to last service. Once wheel alignment, no further issues. Still feeling the road through the low profile tyres when rougher surface, but i imagine this is an issue for most low profile tyres.

NZ XR6 · 03-03-2010, 10:24 PM

Treny,
Larger diameter wheel/tyre combinations are generally heavier and wider than the standard fitment. This will make the car less stable on bumpy or uneven surfaces and can increase tramlining, or the tendency of the wheels to follow changes in road contours. So the Pedders guy has a point, but there is probably something else causing your problem.

Is this what you're experiencing, or is the car tending to pull in one direction only?

My car actually tracked better on 17" wheels than it does on the standard 16s, but feels more stable when cornering on poor surfaces with the 16s, plus it rides far better. But on smooth roads, the roadholding is better on the bigger wheels.

John Watts · 03-03-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treny

Any other owners notice their Mondeos tracking on uneven road surfaces? I have been told by Pedders that it could be a tyre issue. They suggested going to a smaller rim and larger profile tyre. Mine has the original 17" rims and Goodyear Excellence tyres fitted. Anyone have similar issues and better still a fix. It is more annoying than anything else as the car is brilliant and the diesel engine tops it off.

used

Yes I have noticed it but thought it was part of another problem I am having with the ABS and the on board computer. Maybe there is some kind of connection????

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:24 AM

Alan D / Thanks for the reply and yes you may be spot on as they have a tyre franchise across the road. Vehicle has done 20,000klm and wheel alignment was done at 15,000klm. No signs of different tyre wear. The roads we travel on are main highways and have more wear and are rougher on one side, but having said that, aren't they all uneven in this country?

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:25 AM

Bovva66 / Thanks mate I think you may be right.

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:31 AM

NZ XR6 / Yeah spot on tramlining! It is not pulling to one side and on decent roads it steers perfectly.

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:35 AM

John Watts / High John thanks for the reply. I would not be surprised if it is a separate issue. I did not mention also that this problem was reported in the Herald sun by a reader two weeks ago that was what got me thinking it is a common problem?

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:37 AM

Obione980 / Cheers mate glad to hear it and happy motoring.

Treny · 05-03-2010, 10:41 AM

Thanks everyone for your thoughts I will keep an eye out here in case anyone has an answer. I will let you know if I find one. Love this car regardless.
Cheers
Treny :Reverend:

NZ XR6 · 05-03-2010, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treny

NZ XR6 / Yeah spot on tramlining! It is not pulling to one side and on decent roads it steers perfectly.

There is no tramlining with the 16" wheels.

A bit of background to my story. Mondeo wagons in NZ all come in a basic specification with 16" steel wheels - roughly equivalent to the LX spec in Oz. About 6 months ago I fitted 17" Zetec alloys and 235/45 Bridgestone RE001 Adrenalin tyres. The grip on smooth roads was way better, but I wasn't happy with the steering feel on bumpy roads - some tramlining, and slight wheel shimmy felt through the steering at times. Plus the steering felt less accurate, and the initial turn in was slower. I refitted the standard wheels at Christmas, and the steering feels much better - no way will the 17s be going back on.

So I'll do my best to wear out the standard Goodyear Excellence tyres before winter and try to sell the 17s. I'll then fit a set of light 16" alloy wheels with some decent tyres.

If you have 17s, and do most of your driving on rough roads, then I would thoroughly recommend changing to 16" wheels. You will not believe the improvement in the steering and ride.

AlanD · 05-03-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

There is no tramlining with the 16" wheels.

A bit of background to my story. Mondeo wagons in NZ all come in a basic specification with 16" steel wheels - roughly equivalent to the LX spec in Oz. About 6 months ago I fitted 17" Zetec alloys and 235/45 Bridgestone RE001 Adrenalin tyres. The grip on smooth roads was way better, but I wasn't happy with the steering feel on bumpy roads - some tramlining, and slight wheel shimmy felt through the steering at times. Plus the steering felt less accurate, and the initial turn in was slower. I refitted the standard wheels at Christmas, and the steering feels much better - no way will the 17s be going back on.

So I'll do my best to wear out the standard Goodyear Excellence tyres before winter and try to sell the 17s. I'll then fit a set of light 16" alloy wheels with some decent tyres.

If you have 17s, and do most of your driving on rough roads, then I would thoroughly recommend changing to 16" wheels. You will not believe the improvement in the steering and ride.

I'm getting confused

used:

Mainly because I have always understood "tramlining" to be the feeling that you get when you want to change direction but the car maintains a straight line - as though it is on tram tracks. And this makes sense as I got caught on a set in Riversdale Rd and it was this effect exactly. Much narrower tyres involved

: .

I thought the original question was lack of straightline tracking which is a different effect.

Difficulties also with the idea that "heavier wheels" might acerbate the problem - on the basis that a heavier wheel and tyre would have more inertia and need greater forces to operate to push it away from a straight line.

This said, as experience is the best teacher, we need to be guided by NZ's comments - he's been there and done that. (But I would be interested to know if his 17" alloy wheel with its 45 profile tyre is heavier than the replacement 16" steel wheel with a greater profile tyre 55(?). I was led to believe that the use of alloys (originally) was to get a lighter unsprung weight which makes for better roadholding. These days, I suspect it has more to do with the asthetics of the car)

Perhaps the OP can provide more detail about the effect that is being experienced by means of a description rather than the use of a tag such as tracking or tramlining. Would help with a potential solution, perhaps.

I haven't experienced any abnormal steering effects and we have travelled on pretty much all types of surfaces, both paved and unpaved.

To the OP thanks for the reply, it is nice to get an acknowledgement from time to time - I'm suspecting many newer contributors are not aware of the availability for positive feedback via the "snowflake" below the members information column.

Cheers

NZ XR6 · 06-03-2010, 10:14 AM

AlanD,
Tramlining is when unevenness in the road surface causes the car to change direction - there's a good definition in Wikipedia. After a followup question, I understood that's what Treny was describing.

My reply could have been clearer. Tramlining is often exacerbated by wider wheels, not heavier. My understanding is that it has a number of possible causes, tyre width being one of them. Also, the tramlining that I experienced with 17s on my Mondeo was pretty minor compared to some other cars I've driven and was not the reason for chaning back to 16s..

I weighed my wheels when refitting the 16s, and the 17" wheels with tyres were over 2 kg heavier. Wheel weight increases with diameter, especially for wide alloy wheels with large offsets as a lot of metal is needed to maintain the strength of the rim.

If I drove mainly on smoothish roads, I'd be more than happy with the 17s. But most of my driving is in the country on poor quality, chip seal roads, where the 16s are much nicer to drive on. From my admittedly limited experience, Australian country roads are not too bad, but if you do find most of your driving is on poor roads, then the 16s would be a good option.

Treny · 07-03-2010, 05:29 PM

Thanks NZ XR6 I will probably do the same. Is the wheel nut pattern same as falcon?

Treny · 07-03-2010, 05:38 PM

Alan D / Ok sorry about the wording the best way to describe it is the car wanting to steer itself slightly be it left or right on a rough uneven road. I also think NZ is on the money with 16" instead of 17" so I will check out other possibilities.
Cheers Treny

NZ XR6 · 07-03-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treny

Thanks NZ XR6 I will probably do the same. Is the wheel nut pattern same as falcon?

No, it's specific to Euro Fords and can also be found on some Jags and Volvos that used the Mondeo platform. So your wheel choices are limited. If you do want to try 16s, you should be able to find someone who's upgraded a Focus or Mondeo LX and still has the standard 16" wheels.

Treny · 08-03-2010, 10:32 AM

NZ XR6/ Thanks mate!

MOND30 · 09-03-2010, 12:50 PM

Would anyone happen to know the PCD/offset details for the Mondeo, just so we know what we're looking for?

ie I know my X-Trail has a PCD of 5x114.3 and an offset around 40mm.

Cheers
Brenton

NZ XR6 · 09-03-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOND30

Would anyone happen to know the PCD/offset details for the Mondeo, just so we know what we're looking for?

ie I know my X-Trail has a PCD of 5x114.3 and an offset around 40mm.

Cheers
Brenton

Sorry, I should have posted this earlier. This was originally posted by Vieplis on mondeo.org.uk.

Tyres 235/40/R18 , wheel size 8×18", offset 55, PCD 5×108, centre bore 63,3;
tyres 235/45/R17, wheel size 7,5×17", offset 55, PCD 5×108, centre bore 63,3;
tyres 215/55/R16, wheel size 6,5×16", offset 50, PCD 5×108, centre bore 63,3.

As regards centre bore diameter, some sources say it's 63,4, not 63,3

MOND30 · 10-03-2010, 11:27 AM

Thanks for that NZ.

There goes my plan of seeing what the 18" Mondeo rims look like on the X-Trail!