V8 Commodores gone? CAFE...

AWD Chaser · 21-01-2008, 06:06 PM

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/20/d...d-monaro-dead/

With the Monaro declared dead thanks to the CAFE rules, does this mean the end of production V8's for the commodore range?

I thought the Monaro used the same engine as the SS model, and the GTO was the high power output engine (tuned by HSV)...

Bossxr8 · 21-01-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/20/d...d-monaro-dead/

With the Monaro declared dead thanks to the CAFE rules, does this mean the end of production V8's for the commodore range?

I thought the Monaro used the same engine as the SS model, and the GTO was the high power output engine (tuned by HSV)...

CAFE economy targets don't effect us here in Australia, so that will have no bearing on wether Holden make V8 models here. Wether they can export V8 Pontiac G8 models to the US may be affected though.

AWD Chaser · 21-01-2008, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

CAFE economy targets don't effect us here in Australia, so that will have no bearing on wether Holden make V8 models here. Wether they can export V8 Pontiac G8 models to the US may be affected though.

Understandable, but aren't the blocks made overseas? If GM decide that blocks only need to be made for Holden, would that not be too small an output to keep the plant open?

Josh_XC · 21-01-2008, 06:33 PM

I thought pretty much all of the holden v8's were made overseas? I might be wrong. If so i stand corrected

XA-Coupe · 21-01-2008, 06:34 PM

The LS1/2 is a crate motor from the US. Maybe HSV takes them apart for something but thats about it.

HSE2 · 21-01-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

The LS1/2 is a crate motor from the US. Maybe HSV takes them apart for something but thats about it.

I could also be wrong but I don't think HSV do anything with the engines. With VE they might have fitted extractors but the engine is a crate job as you say. All Holden V8s are imported from the US.

That sort of decision would impact on the engines available to Holden I would have thought. There might be reductions in the choice of engine they have available to them caused by our fuel and their calibration perhaps ??.

Force6 · 21-01-2008, 07:11 PM

Holden will bring back the 5.0! It's either that or turbo the Alloytec... lol.

charles_wif_xf · 21-01-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Force6

Holden will bring back the 5.0! It's either that or turbo the Alloytec... lol.

They both sound like excellent ideas.

andrewts · 21-01-2008, 08:38 PM

Well the engine is used in all sorts of SUVs and other cars in countries across the world so I think there would still be a market for them. Even if there isn't, Holden may start manufacturing the LS engine in Australia alongside the Alloytec. I doubt that will happen, but either way there has never been a time where you couldn't buy a V8 Commie.

crYnOid · 21-01-2008, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

That sort of decision would impact on the engines available to Holden I would have thought. There might be reductions in the choice of engine they have available to them caused by our fuel and their calibration perhaps ??.

GM have decided to only produce 1 V8 engine range. That is the GM small block (LSx) range, the GM DOHC (Northstar/Ultrastar) will no longer be produced.

As long as the Corvette/NA trucks still get a V8, development will continue and holden will be fine.

Falc'man · 21-01-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crYnOid

GM have decided to only produce 1 V8 engine range. That is the GM small block (LSx) range, the GM DOHC (Northstar/Ultrastar) will no longer be produced.

As long as the Corvette/NA trucks still get a V8, development will continue and holden will be fine.

I thought it would have been the other way around ie retain the DOHC and get rid of the ohv...

crYnOid · 21-01-2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I thought it would have been the other way around ie retain the DOHC and get rid of the ohv...

Simple put, the 4.6L DOHC "Northstar" V8 produces 275hp. GM make a 3.6l DI V6 (Holden's motor) that makes over 300hp. Developing the "Ultrastar" would cost more than it would be worth with CAFE. The "Northstar" is also low volume and only used in cadiliacs and buicks. The LSx has much larger volume on it's side.

Expect approx. 50hp bump (from the same capacity) in the LSx range when DI comes along with the GEN V engine in a few years.

BadMac · 21-01-2008, 09:23 PM

Isn't CAFE a company wide average, with GM volt and others they will have cars with 60-70-80MPG, so they can afford to also have cars at 20MPG and still acehive the average above 40. Also GM engines have a huge aftermarket, wouldn't Holden just get supplies from that market?

crYnOid · 21-01-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadMac

Isn't CAFE a company wide average, with GM volt and others they will have cars with 60-70-80MPG, so they can afford to also have cars at 20MPG and still acehive the average above 40. Also GM engines have a huge aftermarket, wouldn't Holden just get supplies from that market?

CAFE includes SUVs. That is the problem for Ford/GM. Unless americans kick the habit of buying them the big improvements from something like the Volt are lost by SUVs.

Edit: I'll just add a little bit more.

If you take a Chev Tahoe hybrid (the most efficient SUV) it will make on average (combined) 22mpg. If you assume that the Volt will make 80mpg then GM would have to sell 1 Volt for every Tahoe hybrid sold to make CAFEs 35mpg average. I seem to remember something about GM selling 800k SUV/trucks in the US(none of which where proper hybrids).............

Burnt Toast · 22-01-2008, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

With the Monaro declared dead thanks to the CAFE rules, does this mean the end of production V8's for the commodore range?

We can only hope so!

sleekism · 22-01-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewts

Well the engine is used in all sorts of SUVs and other cars in countries across the world so I think there would still be a market for them. Even if there isn't, Holden may start manufacturing the LS engine in Australia alongside the Alloytec. I doubt that will happen, but either way there has never been a time where you couldn't buy a V8 Commie.

Actually wasn't there a period of time when the VL was released where there was no V8 Commie while they worked on the fuel injected version??

CAFE doesn't necessarily mean the end of the V8. If they can make the majority of their vehicles efficient then they can still have a minority of thirsty V8's for the Corvette etc.

I think what GM will be doing is rationalising the number of engines. From memory they are building four different V8 families (Gen3, Gen4, Northstar, bigblock) while Chrysler and Ford are each only building one.

GM are going to have to make a decision what cars to sacrifice. I think the Gen3 is used in FWD V8's, Gen4 in Corvettes and pickups, Northstar for Cadillac and big block for pickups.

I think they will retain the Gen4 and release the 3 valve and VVT Gen4's they have been working on. They look very interesting.