Why don't we EXEMPT AUSSIE made vehicles from FBT???

[Thunder Time]

All the exempted vehicles are imports - Goods carrying.

Why not exempt all Aussie made vehicles which would make sales boom, employ more people who pay more tax and if the local car makers become profitable, we won't have to bail them out with taxpayer funds.

The announcement Rudd made before the election cost Ford around 20% of sales in a month, people in leasing companies lost their jobs over night, etc. It was another "Banana Republic" moment with dramatic consequences.

Government policy seems to give with one hand, and stab you in the back with the other hand.

Cheers
Greg

[Wretched]

I thought the FBT changes were rolled back after the election?

Would making AU cars FBT exempt really increase sales? I mean that cannot be the reason why people are not buying large sedans.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I thought the FBT changes were rolled back after the election?

Would making AU cars FBT exempt really increase sales? I mean that cannot be the reason why people are not buying large sedans.

I'd like to think it'd help, but it probably won't.

Reason I say this: most of the people I've known with lease cars have no idea how the payments are structured. Or even what an "FBT" is. In one instance - this guy didn't even know how much He'd be making if He didn't have a lease car, as He had always had them. just went on a blind leap every time.

"I can haz dis?"

Why yes, you can. Sign here.

[Thunder Time]

Yes, the FBT was rolled back.
I am just illustrating a point.

If Ford could lose 20% of sales in a month, I think Holden lost 9% and Toyota 6%, then that is a lot of cars that are affected by FBT, and there are lots more brands out there.

Government Dept have a green target and have to buy more fuel efficient cars to meet the target. Most of these are imported as well. Australia is making smaller, greener cars, and even the larger cars are greener than before, and LPG versions as well.

If a change in policy meant that car makers could turn a profit rather than a loss, then the half a billion dollars of tax payer bail out to Holden, plus all the other bail outs, could be spent on roads, hospitals, trains and other badly needed infrastructure.

Around 80 years ago they built the Harbour Bridge and it has 8 car lanes and 2 train lines. How many cars were on the road back then??? So why are the new roads only 2 lanes each way?

I'm just saying there are lots of things happening without any real thought, and it costs a lot more to fix them later than it does to do it properly the first time.

[Motorbreath310]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

Around 80 years ago they built the Harbour Bridge and it has 8 car lanes and 2 train lines. How many cars were on the road back then??? So why are the new roads only 2 lanes each way?

I'm just saying there are lots of things happening without any real thought, and it costs a lot more to fix them later than it does to do it properly the first time.

If ever you needed an example of pickle-poor planning, try planning a trip from one side of Wollongong, to the other.

[dannyxm]

its a valid point.

My 5c was perhaps the Fed Govt to not hand over coin to the manufacturers but rather (or at least in part) entice prospective purchasers with a grant if they buy an Australian built car. Giving people an incentive to buy Australian.

As Motorbreath310 said above, most people will be led by 'AHH YEAH GIVE ME MONEY ILL SIGN' and end up buying to get the grant.

Im sure there is some reason why this is not occurring, but i trust the free trade deals done with other countries, other countries have other protective financial measures to protect their industry.

Sadly though, we live in a country where people go 'all out' and get something Euro, or just get something to 'go from A to B' like something Korean.

The large segment, Commodore, Falcon etc is just not cool anymore.

We also live in a country (or at least a city Sydney) where there is no thought about anything. The M5 is a car park, we appease any area where they do not want an airport, we charge too much for train tickets yet wonder why people insist on driving to work, list goes on......

[ltd]

Great idea, I just sent this to Joe Hockey our treasurer. Unfortunately you can only have 750 characters.

Dear Joe,

First of all, congrats on your recent win, I and all my family and friends now believe we have adults in charge again.
One thing though, as we have an Australian auto industry on life support, would it not be perhaps a prudent move to exempt Australian Made vehicles from FBT? Surely the drop in FBT revenue would be offset by the increased demand for local vehicles; the income tax from workers as well as negating the need for subsidy. I believe this would be a very popular policy as well. Just an idea for you to consider.
Warm regards,

[Thunder Time]

It needs to go to Ian MacFarland as well.
He's the one visiting the car plants and working out what to do.
We need more voices out there !!!

[302 XC]

At days end,we can come up with all the answers we want to help stimulate our ailing economy and manufacturing,BUT the writing has been on the wall for decades,we have just been to blinded by cheap imports to see it,in the last few months new car prices have dropped,what new navara 4x4 dual cab I could have bought for 40 grand 3,4 months ago,is had now for 35 ish,your buying 4x4 dual cab tritons for a touch over 30 grand,whos seriously looking at 4 door saloons with more versatile cars for less money
The imports have givin our industries a run for the money and it seems the imports have won,people are buying majorily on price,brand loyalty is just about dead,except if its import brands,nissan ,Toyota bleeders are sticking with them,holden and ford bleeders are jumping camp any chance something better comes along
We have no one to blame but ourselves,see whats in the drive of most aussies and youll see why ford,holden are sliding into obscurity forever
FBT wont magically bring massive sales to the aussie makers,throwing the life line out now wont do a thing

[WPR1]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

All the exempted vehicles are imports - Goods carrying.

Why not exempt all Aussie made vehicles which would make sales boom, employ more people who pay more tax and if the local car makers become profitable, we won't have to bail them out with taxpayer funds.

The announcement Rudd made before the election cost Ford around 20% of sales in a month, people in leasing companies lost their jobs over night, etc. It was another "Banana Republic" moment with dramatic consequences.

Government policy seems to give with one hand, and stab you in the back with the other hand.

Cheers
Greg

It's too good an idea therefore it will never happen!

[Blue Roo]

Because this would make common sense and this would help to save our car manufacturing Industry. But unfortunetly the Federal Government has got no common sense.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

At days end,we can come up with all the answers we want to help stimulate our ailing economy and manufacturing,BUT the writing has been on the wall for decades,we have just been to blinded by cheap imports to see it,in the last few months new car prices have dropped,what new navara 4x4 dual cab I could have bought for 40 grand 3,4 months ago,is had now for 35 ish,your buying 4x4 dual cab tritons for a touch over 30 grand,whos seriously looking at 4 door saloons with more versatile cars for less money
The imports have givin our industries a run for the money and it seems the imports have won,people are buying majorily on price,brand loyalty is just about dead,except if its import brands,nissan ,Toyota bleeders are sticking with them,holden and ford bleeders are jumping camp any chance something better comes along
We have no one to blame but ourselves,see whats in the drive of most aussies and youll see why ford,holden are sliding into obscurity forever
FBT wont magically bring massive sales to the aussie makers,throwing the life line out now wont do a thing

I've often been accused of getting on a soap box lately but if you don't mind I'd like to weigh in. Let me preface by saying that I agree with a large portion of what you've said.

First of all, the thinking that we can get a 4x4 for less money than a falcon or other such locally made vehicle is incredibly flawed.
A 4x4 is not as comfortable as a sedan, does not ride as well and is also a whole lot more expensive to own. Sure, it may be cheaper to buy but then you're also hauling around a lot more bulk like the 4x4 running gear with a smaller engine, and your fuel bill soars substantially.
Next, if something were to break you've got the added fun of availability of parts, extra expense for said part needing to be imported and then the inconvenience of having your vehicle off the road whilst you wait should it be a problem which has little inventory of parts in your city and suburb. The amount of times I've heard people complain about waiting for parts has always made me laugh; the convenience of owning something local trumps this every time.

Secondly, Australia by in large is getting, well, fat.
Believe me, the amount of people I have seen struggle into an economy seat is laughable, and we never seem to have enough belt extenders on board.
A 4x4 such as those you reference is much smaller in interior dimension than a local Holden or Ford unless you go to a Landcruiser or such for similar interior space. To get in to this size range you have to spend over 100K. Most people don't want to go off road as the thought of the outdoors scares them. Furthermore, most fat people of which we have an increasing percentage of couldn't be bothered going somewhere necessitating a 4x4 as there likely won't be a drive thru or convenience store for miles, and roughing it is not their style.

No, the reason sedans have become unpopular is the perception of gas guzzlers, the trends driven by the whole global warming fraud and the eco-terrorists demanding we be seen to do something about it such as nickel mining and processing even though it has more catastrophic affect on the environment they claim to want to protect (Hybrid batteries).

Making a move such as protecting our own manufacturing base through FBT exemptions is a good idea, and it will drive demand back to the local who has always been there in our life time, yet external influences such as Al Gore's latest money making fraud have distorted the natural demand for such products. Time to put it right.

[MrXR8]

Re: Why don't we EXEMPT AUSSIE made vehicles from FBT???

because the gov is stupid! plain and simple.

why make it harder for our own cars.

[steve.zissou]

my ute is FBT exempt - another reason to buy a ute (plus you can never be the Designated driver cause there is no room)

[Road_Warrior]

I'm not sure manipulating FBT rules to get people into locally made cars is the right answer.

How about private buyers are offered a 5% refund on GST by the government if they purchase a locally manufactured or assembled vehicle?

Let's face it, the government won't go broke by doing it because the sales of locally made cars are a drop in the ocean compared to imports.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by ltd

Great idea, I just sent this to Joe Hockey our treasurer. Unfortunately you can only have 750 characters.

Wouldnt you expect a responses like -

So you expect people who lease an Australian made vehicle to get the tax benefits (and mainly use it for personal use), should receive greater benefit than those who pay for the car from their after tax salary.

[ryeman]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

Because this would make common sense and this would help to save our car manufacturing Industry. But unfortunetly the Federal Government has got no common sense.

But they do have god fearin' ideology.

[TMC]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

Around 80 years ago they built the Harbour Bridge and it has 8 car lanes and 2 train lines. How many cars were on the road back then??? So why are the new roads only 2 lanes each way?

I'm just saying there are lots of things happening without any real thought, and it costs a lot more to fix them later than it does to do it properly the first time.

Back then it was all about "nation building".

Now it's all about "selling out", mostly to Asia.

And politicians only do things that make them votes. If recycling your grandmother into compost was perceived to gain votes, some lunatic politician would propose it.

[blackf6]

Implement an import tax on each non Australian made product while your at it.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

Y

Around 80 years ago they built the Harbour Bridge and it has 8 car lanes and 2 train lines. How many cars were on the road back then??? So why are the new roads only 2 lanes each way?

I'm just saying there are lots of things happening without any real thought, and it costs a lot more to fix them later than it does to do it properly the first time.

Two of the lanes were originally used as tram tracks.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by ltd

I've often been accused of getting on a soap box lately...............the trends driven by the whole global warming fraud and the eco-terrorists demanding we be seen to do something about it such as nickel mining and processing even though it has more catastrophic affect on the environment they claim to want to protect (Hybrid batteries).

.

Sorry buddy...I lost interest when I read that bit and your last paragraph.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Thunder Time

All the exempted vehicles are imports - Goods carrying.

Why not exempt all Aussie made vehicles which would make sales boom, employ more people who pay more tax and if the local car makers become profitable, we won't have to bail them out with taxpayer funds.


Government policy seems to give with one hand, and stab you in the back with the other hand.

Cheers
Greg

All Australian car manufacturing profits go back to the country that the multinationals head office is based in.

There is no Australian owned car manufacturer.

....take your pick America or Japan?

How's that for a good reason not to prop up their profits?

If you are happy to nationalize one of the manufacturers (i.e instead of giving them constant handouts, just get the govt to own them)

Then I am all for it...I'll buy shares in a heartbeat.

[Madaya]

Good point.
Still workers employed by many local suppliers...sellers get paid wages+pay tax. As long as an Aussie on the ground is earning a wage, so is Australia. Surely that is true?

[danzvtil]

First of all, the thinking that we can get a 4x4 for less money than a falcon or other such locally made vehicle is incredibly flawed.
A 4x4 is not as comfortable as a sedan, does not ride as well and is also a whole lot more expensive to own. Sure, it may be cheaper to buy but then you're also hauling around a lot more bulk like the 4x4 running gear with a smaller engine, and your fuel bill soars substantially.
Next, if something were to break you've got the added fun of availability of parts, extra expense for said part needing to be imported and then the inconvenience of having your vehicle off the road whilst you wait should it be a problem which has little inventory of parts in your city and suburb. The amount of times I've heard people complain about waiting for parts has always made me laugh; the convenience of owning something local trumps this every time.

You make some good points LTD, but i have to pull you up on the parts availability-That idea of local cars having parts locally supplied is rather outdated-I waited 3 months for my falcon diff which came from Thailand, the bulk of parts are now imported from factories which are contracted to supply a part globally or even co owned by ford.
Parts availability is only as good as the manufacturers supply chain set up whether the part comes from 10 kays or 10000.
Falcons are getting more EXPENSIVE relative to the imports-Years ago my company would put the tender out to various ford dealers who had umpteen falcon utes sitting on grass, discounts were forthcomming.
2.5 yrs ago i priced an EGAS 1 Tonner with a ranger TD Auto 2WD, Ranger was 8k more expensive.
My most recent changeover 3 months ago, had the same ranger priced IDENTICAL to the falcon-Ranger has come down in price, But falcon has gone up because ford arent building them to park on grass to then offer a huge discount.
Mitsubishi slashing prices of the triton repeatedly means several things
1-its an old model
2-there must be excess global supply
3-margins in imported vehicles must be quite large when a 40K 4WD twin cab, 2 years later is 29k, thats great wall money for an established brand!

[BLUEYBA]

Originally Posted by teak81

Implement an import tax on each non Australian made product while your at it.

How about are vehicle with say 20% local content are taxed less than say a fully imported car. The content can be adjusted to suit the need.
The more local content then closer to the manufacturer will get max discount on the tax applied. They would still pay a tax but a reduced one.
We should be giving incentives rather than cash handouts. So basically they have to reach a target to gain benefits

[XWGT]

Wrong tool for the job

FBT is to ensure people do not receive untaxed benefits as part of their employment.

GST LCT and Import Duties and FTA's target cars directly and these are the tools that should be used to keep Australian manufactured vehicles in production (if that's your agenda)

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

All Australian car manufacturing profits go back to the country that the multinationals head office is based in.

There is no Australian owned car manufacturer.

....take your pick America or Japan?

How's that for a good reason not to prop up their profits?

If you are happy to nationalize one of the manufacturers (i.e instead of giving them constant handouts, just get the govt to own them)

Then I am all for it...I'll buy shares in a heartbeat.

What profits? Toyota, Ford or Holden havnt made a profit in years on their local operations.
Fact is it isnt possible to build cars here without some sort of subsidy, it isnt possible to build cars anywhere without support.
Youd be surprised how much money the German and Korean countries throw into their industry...
Its ironic that no one objects to the millions of dollars thrown at Hollywood for them to make movies here, which only provides a short term benefit.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

What profits? Toyota, Ford or Holden havnt made a profit in years on their local operations.
Fact is it isnt possible to build cars here without some sort of subsidy, it isnt possible to build cars anywhere without support.
Youd be surprised how much money the German and Korean countries throw into their industry...
Its ironic that no one objects to the millions of dollars thrown at Hollywood for them to make movies here, which only provides a short term benefit.

Germans and Koreans may throw money at their industry but how many cars do each of their makers export each year? How many markets are they in?
Look at the innovation and improvements each have made.
Here, we're just throwing good money away.

[Thunder Time]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Wrong tool for the job

FBT is to ensure people do not receive untaxed benefits as part of their employment.

GST LCT and Import Duties and FTA's target cars directly and these are the tools that should be used to keep Australian manufactured vehicles in production (if that's your agenda)

Poor Government policy bails out these companies using taxpayer funds, then sticks the knife in to make it worse. Therefore a half billion handout will become a 1 billion handout, and ongoing until they all close the doors.

What FBT do politicians pay on their travel rorts, chauffer driven limo's, free lifetime travel, free staff and offices (even after they are sacked), and they can receive a huge pension before retirement age, and work as well. Then there is the HSU credit cards, free renovations, coal mines, etc . . . .

Whether the car makers are Aussie owned or overseas owned, they are assembled here, they bring technology to the country, they employ thousands, there are thousands working in their supply chain, and all of them pay taxes and spend their money here.

Whether its cars, widgets, or agriculture, the Government doesn't do anything to help Australian Industry compete in a Global Economy. I understand free trade, but when all the other Countries protect their local industry, or subsidise their local industry, the "free" trade seems to be only one way - to our detriment.

The Government (and Consumers) need to consider that if Aussies have to use 1st world methods, and pay high wages and benefits, produce less pollution, then we can't compete on the same level as something produced in a 3rd world country.

In the USA fuel prices are around 90 cents per litre, and I heard the electricity prices are around 6 cents per kw. Their wages are usually lower than here, and they don't have Medicare. Their population is something like 280 million, whereas we have around 23 million. If you only sell locally, how do you compete with even the USA, rather than Thailand, India or China?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Germans and Koreans may throw money at their industry but how many cars do each of their makers export each year? How many markets are they in?
Look at the innovation and improvements each have made.
Here, we're just throwing good money away.

Err our Government throws spare change at them, at the same time as putting in place the lowest import restrictions of any nation with its own auto industry.
You realise how hard it is to export cars into Korea, Thailand, Japan? Yet these countries have a free pass basically to export here.