Future Australian car industry?

[axe]

Came across this article and thought i'd see what people think about the idea. Can it work given our current car market and industrial costs?

"Project Erich, Belgian entrepreneur Guido Dumarey’s plan to save the locally-developed Holden Commodore from death at the end of 2017 will kick into high-gear in the New Year. In an exclusive interview with motoring.com.au at his Strasbourg, France, headquarters last Thursday, Dumarey said his shock bid to keep Commodore, and the Elizabeth plant in which it is built alive, must be signed off in 2016 with most of the heavy lifting completed in the first six months of the year..."

http://www.motoring.com.au/exclusive...zabeth-100647/

[Fordman1]

Wishful thinking, won't happen unless the federal government tips in billions.

[Top_Ghia]

Building the cars is the easy bit. Selling them is the hard part.

[axe]

Is there much Government money around for these sort of things? I heard about another company, Ethan Automotive who are also making noises about building cars in SA.

[Sprintey]

They said you'd never make it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5PJ-uwCP80

lol

[XG_Falcon]

History has already answered this question.

[Trump]

Unlike the UK, the environment the Australian car industry found itself in led to one conclusion: obliteration. Neither the car companies nor the government did anything to keep the industry not only viable, but to allow it to thrive. Instead, the corporate equivalent of vultures will pick at the scraps once Holden and Toyota shut down in 18 months.

[castellan]

Australia never ever had a viable car industry in it's whole history and that's a fact.

It was the Government that worked to help bring about all the car makers come build here with tariffs etc and that's the only way it worked.

Our Government is not interested to support as such anymore because
1 We are not into nation building anymore.
2 They not into creating jobs or a future.
3 They are into a new global system where our government is a puppet for a bigger identity and you vote is next to worthless.

After WW2 they were into nation building and had to look after the people who came back from war to prove their was hope in this nations future.

If you want to build or make anything here or you have to go through all the red tape and be hounded on every front, because they truly don't want any business here at all.

Most People in government, councils or wage earners are off with the pixies living in a total dream world, where stark reality's don't count for jack to them.. they don't have to truly think to the future themselves, they have only faith that a government is working in their best interest, fact is governments don't work for our best interest but only to a identity's interest nowadays.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by castellan

Australia never ever had a viable car industry in it's whole history and that's a fact.

It was the Government that worked to help bring about all the car makers come build here with tariffs etc and that's the only way it worked.

Our Government is not interested to support as such anymore because
1 We are not into nation building anymore.
2 They not into creating jobs or a future.
3 They are into a new global system where our government is a puppet for a bigger identity and you vote is next to worthless.

After WW2 they were into nation building and had to look after the people who came back from war to prove their was hope in this nations future.

If you want to build or make anything here or you have to go through all the red tape and be hounded on every front, because they truly don't want any business here at all.

Most People in government, councils or wage earners are off with the pixies living in a total dream world, where stark reality's don't count for jack to them.. they don't have to truly think to the future themselves, they have only faith that a government is working in their best interest, fact is governments don't work for our best interest but only to a identity's interest nowadays.

The vehicle industry was more than viable pre WWII, you only have to research what they did during those years. That helped build it up to what it became. The Govt supported it after WWII because they realised how essential it was for self sufficiency. That is factual!

Bill.

[outback_ute]

From 1902 there was a tariff on imported car bodies with a view that coachbuilding would be a lead-in to grow the auto industry in Australia, then after WW2 it changed to requiring a local content percentage. That didn't do a lot to overcome other countries having a substantial head-start in the car (or component) industry in the early years, then later the low manufacturing volumes. Even at its peak around the 2000's Holden only just got to what would be considered a viable volume on a global basis, although to do that they were building a lot of variations on the Commodore (were they all viable?).

[Boosted8]

Obviously there isn't going to be an Aussie car industry. Holden, Ford and Toyota are all closing down. Doesn't that say it all?

The writing has been on the wall for many years now. Accept it and move on.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Bill M

The vehicle industry was more than viable pre WWII, you only have to research what they did during those years. That helped build it up to what it became. The Govt supported it after WWII because they realised how essential it was for self sufficiency. That is factual!

Bill.

Only the wealthy drove cars pre WW2 mainly.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

From 1902 there was a tariff on imported car bodies with a view that coachbuilding would be a lead-in to grow the auto industry in Australia, then after WW2 it changed to requiring a local content percentage. That didn't do a lot to overcome other countries having a substantial head-start in the car (or component) industry in the early years, then later the low manufacturing volumes. Even at its peak around the 2000's Holden only just got to what would be considered a viable volume on a global basis, although to do that they were building a lot of variations on the Commodore (were they all viable?).

Holden found it's self in a position that it could do as it did from the VX on to the VZ.

Holden thought that the big car like the VE was the way to go, maybe the export was what they were chasing in the USA that helped that go ahead, but the yanks started printing money and that drove our dollar up and now the USA has stoped, now our dollar is going down.

If our dollar was 70 to 80 cents to the USA, Holden could of had a future exporting to the USA.

When the VE came out I thought Holden were mad making such a big heavy car, I thought it should of been a bit smaller and lighter than the VZ would of been the go back then, to a VS size and weight type of thing.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by castellan

Holden found it's self in a position that it could do as it did from the VX on to the VZ.

Holden thought that the big car like the VE was the way to go, maybe the export was what they were chasing in the USA that helped that go ahead, but the yanks started printing money and that drove our dollar up and now the USA has stoped, now our dollar is going down.

If our dollar was 70 to 80 cents to the USA, Holden could of had a future exporting to the USA.

When the VE came out I thought Holden were mad making such a big heavy car, I thought it should of been a bit smaller and lighter than the VZ would of been the go back then, to a VS size and weight type of thing.

Perhaps they should have made that Torana, or SSX

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Boosted8

Obviously there isn't going to be an Aussie car industry. Holden, Ford and Toyota are all closing down. Doesn't that say it all?

The writing has been on the wall for many years now. Accept it and move on.

That's typical of people who don't work for them selves, is to just to give up.

If this nation had the intestinal fortitude and lead by great people all would be fine, but it's the good for nothing no hoppers that have dragged this nation down all the time.

Look a round and you will see just how many of our company's have been failing for years.
Talk to a truly great Australian like Dick Smith about it and he will point out just what is going wrong.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Perhaps they should have made that Torana, or SSX

Well it was on the board, and I have talked to the people who were involved with the VE design and all that, when the VE came out.

[Boosted8]

Originally Posted by castellan

That's typical of people who don't work for them selves, is to just to give up.

If this nation had the intestinal fortitude and lead by great people all would be fine, but it's the good for nothing no hoppers that have dragged this nation down all the time.

Well I'm glad I'm not all hopped up like you. Lay off the pipe mate, the industry is gone and all the misguiding hoping in the world won't bring it back...

are you actually planning on bankrolling a new auto company? No, I didn't think so.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by castellan

Well it was on the board, and I have talked to the people who were involved with the VE design and all that, when the VE came out.

Both would have been great.
Torana with its smaller size and turbo power.
and the SSX with V8, 4wd and Hatchback..

ah well....

[Brazen]

This is easy, of course the industry can survive and prosper (whether it happens though...)

Money? Yes. Australia has the third largest investment pool of money in the world. Super funds and the general market are seeking advanced industrials.
Market? Yes, Australians buy the most brand new cars per capita in the world. Market is consistently growing.
Skills? Yes. Australia is only of only 13 countries that can design, build and engineer a car from scratch
Costs? By first world standards, Australia is a cheap country to operate in. Not much pro labour rules like the Europe or high wage costs like advanced countries like Europe, South Korea, Japan.

Our biggest handicaps are government commitment and general community apathy to supporting risk taking and local manufacturing. You see things like 'move on' and 'get over it' in this thread. I'm sure that represents many Australians - which is different to many other countries' populations that don't have the mineral resources that we do and thus live or die by their how their human resources are utilised.

[Sprintey]

So true Brazen, as I'm not a "true blue" Aussie in the sense of the word, I just can't understand the Australian attitude to give up without a fight. It's bizarre, and the opposite of what made this country successful.

Well, US markets have yet to close, and there's an interesting bit of financial news overnight:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-1...-steel-imports

It seems the US wants to protect its (uncompetitive, let it close, get over it) steel industry and has whacked a 256% tariff on dumped Chinese steel.

[FNQracing]

Will we ever make cars here again? Never. Once its gone, its gone. We will continue to design and engineer which is probably where the smart money is anyway.

[axe]

Market? Yes, Australians buy the most brand new cars per capita in the world. Market is consistently growing.

Brand snobbery and cultural cringe still seems to be a big thing. Many people, when I say I drive a Falcon bring up the old line about how poor the build quality is, how much it will cost in repairs and the low resale.

These are untrue especially when the FG is compared to some of the rubbish on the roads today. Falcons are some of the cheapest vehicles to maintain in general and the resale is not too bad compared to many cars. It seems that only other car making countries can build a decent car in many Australian peoples' minds.

People seem to compare the Falcon and Commodore to BMW and Mercs which that are not and have never really tried to be. It's only recently that the Euro "luxury" brands started releasing reasonably cheap vehicles that they are within reach of those who would historically have bought an Australian built car.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Boosted8

Well I'm glad I'm not all hopped up like you. Lay off the pipe mate, the industry is gone and all the misguiding hoping in the world won't bring it back...

are you actually planning on bankrolling a new auto company? No, I didn't think so.

Yes I could be planning on bankrolling but I know a lot of wealthy people who will not invest in Australia any more, because they have been burnt to many times.

I know many people from other nations that are truly shocked at how we just toss away so many opportunity's not to mention the way most in Australia could not care less.

I am not in the 'hoping' to bring it back basket, but I do say that it did not have to be just tossed away.
Hope is only one thing, but I do say that this nation could of done a hell of a lot better and the fact is it did not have to close down and it did so, only due to a lot of foolishness.
Backward moronic unions have killed many business in Australia because their communist inspired and they have been working to destroy capitalism, not to mention the far right wing trash has only helped them do it.

General Motors said of Australia after WW2 that it did not truly want to invest in Australia on it's own bat, because it was too socialist, so they would never of came here, and only did as such because the government wanted them here.

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by FNQracing

Will we ever make cars here again? Never. Once its gone, its gone. We will continue to design and engineer which is probably where the smart money is anyway.

I think this sums it up perfectly. We're not going to compete with manufacturing of ANYTHING.

We need to be looking away from primary industries and manufacturing. Unfortunately we have a long history of not doing that, and the current government's cuts to the CSIRO show just how interested they are in that.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by axe

Brand snobbery and cultural cringe still seems to be a big thing. Many people, when I say I drive a Falcon bring up the old line about how poor the build quality is, how much it will cost in repairs and the low resale.

These are untrue especially when the FG is compared to some of the rubbish on the roads today. Falcons are some of the cheapest vehicles to maintain in general and the resale is not too bad compared to many cars. It seems that only other car making countries can build a decent car in many Australian peoples' minds.

People seem to compare the Falcon and Commodore to BMW and Mercs which that are not and have never really tried to be. It's only recently that the Euro "luxury" brands started releasing reasonably cheap vehicles that they are within reach of those who would historically have bought an Australian built car.

The build quality of both Falcon and Commodore is poor. FG and I'm assuming FGX is a lot better but a bit late by that stage. When you work on and drive all different cars its quite obvious. They aren't exactly cheap either when you can buy something that can do almost everything they can for half the price.

[Bill M]

A future car industry for Australia? Probably in niche form only.
I just helped build and pack medical instruments made in Australia for shipment to the USA.

There are other segments of manufacturing that are accelerating forwards.
http://aamc.org.au/2015-a-massive-ye...manufacturers/

Castellan, I have a disc copy of Holden's war record 1939 -1945, you might change your mind about what GM Holden's capabilities were in that time period upon reading it.
cheers
Bill.

[axe]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

The build quality of both Falcon and Commodore is poor... When you work on and drive all different cars its quite obvious. They aren't exactly cheap either when you can buy something that can do almost everything they can for half the price.

What cars are you referring to? I drive a fair few fleet vehicles and can't see that the Hyundais, Toyotas and Nissans are better put together compared to the Fords and Holdens we use.

[1TUFFUTE]

I voted a big fat NO. Which sucks. Why throw money at a whim.......when there was allready three massive global setups in our country they decided to stop supporting? It's a stupid pipe dream.imho

[Bill M]

Manufacturing Engineer Tesla Motors Australia

Our talent pool is much sought after...

[sexyxe]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

The build quality of both Falcon and Commodore is poor. FG and I'm assuming FGX is a lot better but a bit late by that stage. When you work on and drive all different cars its quite obvious. They aren't exactly cheap either when you can buy something that can do almost everything they can for half the price.

Interesting that a lot of people say that. But I thought my BFII was a far nicer car in terms of build quality than my FG. That, and the FG and FGXs we have at work are of a similar lower quality than my BF was. I felt like they took a backwards step.