Ford CEO says 'partial electrification' is more than 'transitional'

[jpd80]

Ford CEO says 'partial electrification' is more than 'transitional'

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...l/73905508007/

Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley said Thursday that "partial electrification" options like hybrids and extended-range electric vehicles are more than just "transitional" technologies.

The auto industry over the past year has reevaluated all-electric vehicle adoption timelines, given affordability and range challenges. Ford and others have reemphasized hybrid technologies or said they are reintroducing them in the coming years. The circumstances and China's strength in new-energy and advanced driving assistance systems have convinced Farley the company must be able to compete at the low-priced end of the market.


“ I come here at this moment in time as a CEO much clearer about our executional priorities," Farley said at the Bernstein Annual Strategic Decisions Conference. "And the way we need to make our way through this successfully to be a great company is a lot clearer than it was last year."

Partial electrification, Farley said, is increasingly part of that solution, noting that the hybrid F-150 truck represents a quarter of sales. Beyond hybrids and plug-in hybrids, the category includes extended-range electric vehicles, or EREVs. Typically, they're vehicles that run fully off batteries, but have a generator, usually a combustion engine, onboard that recharges the battery, extending its range. The combination allows the vehicles to have a smaller battery, which represents most of the cost of an EV.


“ EREVs in the U.S. could be 120 miles of all-electric, and they drive like EVs," Farley said. "They don't drive like combustion engine vehicles, so you get an EV, and you have 700 miles of range. You don't have range anxiety for a long trip. You don't have to rely on any charges. And those vehicles have half the batteries, so they're very profitable."

The fitness test for an automaker, he said, will be how quickly a company can adopt an in-between technology like this: "We really like that solution," Farley said about EREVs.


The technology, however, begs the question of how regulators will see it, since it's not a zero-carbon emissions vehicle like traditional EVs, though most trips would be able to be run all-electric, because they're short-distance. Former Ram CEO Tim Kuniskis said Ramcharger sales would count toward Stellantis' EV goals.

“ We're going to have to talk to all the regulators," Farley said, "because they really bet on pure EVs, but EREVs in China are really the growing part of the EV market."

More at the story link…..

So Ford is about to pivot again to hybrids and PHEVs with bigger batteries.
Good if this means more interesting vehicles for our market but I have a feeling
that Ford is not looking beyond Left Hand Drive markets like US, Europe and China…

For the record, I’m glad to be proven wrong on this…(I often am)

[Franco Cozzo]

There'll be a different CEO next year anyway who is like a Roomba that hits a road block and goes beep boop and turns off in a different direction

That company can't make a decision and stick with it, it's like it has corporate autism

[Dr Smith]

Regulators can regulate all they want but governments need voters to stay in power and if voters aren't buying pure EV's they are not going to like being forced into it....self-interest is a powerful incentive.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There'll be a different CEO next year anyway who is like a Roomba that hits a road block and goes beep boop and turns off in a different direction

That company can't make a decision and stick with it, it's like it has corporate autism

**You used to be a bigger man, Damo.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Regulators can regulate all they want but governments need voters to stay in power and if voters aren't buying pure EV's they are not going to like being forced into it....self-interest is a powerful incentive.

Ford convinced itself that a full line BEV future was closer than it actually is and sent thousands
of their most talented conventional vehicle engineering and development staff down the road.
Now Jim Farley realises his mistake and wants to change course…..great, now go out and try to
hire everyone back.

On a lot of this I just don’t know anymore, I used to think that corporates hired smart researchers
to keep their finger on the pulse of what customers want but the more I look, it’s all about
carmakers making the most profit on fewest necessary builds, everyone else not the buyer.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a lot of this I just don’t know anymore, I used to think that corporates hired smart researchers
to keep their finger on the pulse of what customers want but the more I look, it’s all about
carmakers making the most profit on fewest necessary builds, everyone else not the buyer.

I appreciate your optimism

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I appreciate your optimism

If I sound bitter it’s because I recently shopped for a new vehicle for my wife,
Ford had nothing we liked so dropped $58,000 cash on a new Mazda ($8,400 discount).

[kevino]

I take it you don’t like Rangers and Everest’s JPD?
Cause that’s all they have presently.
Chickens are going to come home to roost for Ford Ute Aus soon
And I am seeing a lot of Rangers and Everests in rental car fleets here on the Gc.

[simon varley]

Farley may have been in the company for years, but frankly, as CEO, he has absolutely NFI!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If I sound bitter it’s because I recently shopped for a new vehicle for my wife,
Ford had nothing we liked so dropped $58,000 cash on a new Mazda ($8,400 discount).

Sprintey had the best idea going - just make everything on the Ranger platform

Small hatch? Ranger based
Performance coupe? Ranger based

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sprintey had the best idea going - just make everything on the Ranger platform

Small hatch? Ranger based
Performance coupe? Ranger based

Hey look, no disrespect to Ford, the Everest i like but it is a bit too big/ high for her and her medical condition
so we went for a narrow three row as the back seats can fold down to take a wheel chair on day when her walking is bad.

On your point of other Ford vehicles, I recon the Maverick pickup or the canceled Maverick SUV would be
Great vehicles to supplement the local range but that’s just me and would others have the same preferences?
I don’t know, so I understand why Ford doesn’t try things that may not be worth the time developing.

The other part of me hopes that higher Ranger and Everest sales now give Ford AUS the justification to offer more
variations that are doable to flesh out more sales…..especially if Ford is talking hybrids and PHEVs.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sprintey had the best idea going - just make everything on the Ranger platform

Small hatch? Ranger based
Performance coupe? Ranger based

Yes, like Hilux Chump.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hey look, no disrespect to Ford, the Everest i like but it is a bit too big/ high for her and her medical condition
so we went for a narrow three row as the back seats can fold down to take a wheel chair on day when her walking is bad.

On your point of other Ford vehicles, I recon the Maverick pickup or the canceled Maverick SUV would be
Great vehicles to supplement the local range but that’s just me and would others have the same preferences?
I don’t know, so I understand why Ford doesn’t try things that may not be worth the time developing.

The other part of me hopes that higher Ranger and Everest sales now give Ford AUS the justification to offer more
variations that are doable to flesh out more sales…..especially if Ford is talking hybrids and PHEVs.

They've killed everything other than Thailand Specials and SUVs, and then they even killed some of the SUVs so I don't see the situation changing,

You won't get me back into the brand, basically my next new car purchase would probably be a Tesla Model 3 or Model 2 if it exists when the time comes. Traditional cars are dead - unless you want something bland and compromised like an SUV.

Ford Europe made absolutely mint cars, nothing drives like their vehicles, it sounds weird but I drove a Transit Custom recently and you can tell it comes out of Ford Europe with how it steers and drives - and its a god damn van.

I'd like to see Maverick in Australia, it perfectly slots in under the Ranger as a car based Thailand Special, with Ecoboost power, I don't look at it as a ute competitor, I look at it like a competitor for the RAV4.

It would suit the 30-something female millennial market who leads an active lifestyle, without all the Thailand Special foibles like steering like the ****ing Titanic and having shitful clattery ****-weak diesel engines that drive like a sloth and you get your hands covered in diesel every time you fill it up.

Dunno what it is with Thailand Specials but they struggle to make one steer properly, its always 30,000 turns lock to lock, makes shopping center car parks fun.

[CyberWasp]

Before getting carried away with Hybrids and what not, why not learn how to make a vehicle in RHD 1st. It is really not hard.

Well known companies like Zeekr, Jaecoo, Xpeng, Leapmotor Skywell, GAC, Aion and Jetour, all know what a RHD vehicle is and are lining up to ship cars here in the next 12 months.
These guys are perceived as Junk and have Zero market credibility, but to them it is worth while in flipping the wheel over to the other side and giving it a red hot go.

Why....because that is what Global Car Manufacturer does. Sell Cars in all parts of the Market and steal sales off competitors

Jim Farley you are a disgrace.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Sprintey had the best idea going - just make everything on the Ranger platform

Small hatch? Ranger based
Performance coupe? Ranger based

Some of you may scoff for now, but when the next generation of moon landers are Ranger based, remember where you heard it first.

[Sprintey]

Watching the big corporate strategies change direction like leaves in the wind.

So much of it is geopolitical now

China has the head start and resources for BEV dominance

US is energy independent with vast NA reserves and refining capacity, fuel powered hybrids work fine and will deal with their really cold weather

Japan discovered some kind of black ice stuff so they have a hydrogen supply, finally some native resources

Australia has hundreds of years of CNG and.... ships it offshore for pennies and we all get wedgied on liquid fuels and increasingly, electricity. Gas price sets the marginal electricity price and we pay global spot cos no reservation on east coast lulz

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Australia has hundreds of years of CNG and.... ships it offshore for pennies and we all get wedgied on liquid fuels and increasingly, electricity. Gas price sets the marginal electricity price and we pay global spot cos no reservation on east coast lulz

By 2028 we're expecting to have natural gas shortages in our domestic market in VIC,

Because we export it all overseas - what a joke

The Lucky Country is a 1964 book by Donald Horne. The title has become a nickname for Australia[1] and is generally used favourably, although the origin of the phrase was negative in the context of the book. Among other things, it has been used in reference to Australia's natural resources, weather, history, its early dependency of the British system, distance from problems elsewhere in the world, and other sorts of supposed prosperity.

Horne's intent in writing the book was to portray Australia's climb to power and wealth based almost entirely on luck rather than the strength of its political or economic system, which Horne believed was "second rate". In addition to political and economic weaknesses, he also lamented on the lack of innovation and ambition, as well as a philistinism in the absence of art, among the Australian population, viewed by Horne as being complacent and indifferent to intellectual matters. He also commented on matters relating to Australian puritanism, as well as conservatism, particularly in relation to censorship and politics.

Full of second rate people too

[Sprintey]

The other really crippling bit was a lack of domestic capital, it plagued the early colony (rum was currency, they also used old pieces of eight, stamped out the centre 'holey dollar and dump'). In 1911 (I think) the solution to this was established by the new Federation - make a Commonwealth Bank. (This is now a different beast, borrows short offshore and lends long into - drum roll - property)

If you look at the ingenuity of Australians, it's sad it doesn't translate into a complete self sufficiency given all the resources and ag land. The ingenuity comes from problem solving solutions to an environment/landscape/resource/distance equation that is like no other. It's always so good to find an Aussie venture that is world class and somehow finds a niche in their global industry.

[Citroënbender]

If you look at the ingenuity of Australians, it's sad it doesn't translate into a complete self sufficiency given all the resources and ag land. The ingenuity comes from problem solving solutions to an environment/landscape/resource/distance equation that is like no other. It's always so good to find an Aussie venture that is world class and somehow finds a niche in their global industry.

My first field of study was engineering, towards forty years ago. Emphasis was on graduating with honours, and doing an MBA while setting minions to work sourcing the least worst suiting products from overseas. Even seeking tech help from overseas corporate “parents” - wait for the faxed responses to come in overnight.

[Sprintey]

That explains the excellent abilities in all the builds CB! Me, I won a regional Lego competition when I was 8. Study was in other fields than engineering, but I was always making machines to do stuff. To be an Aussie manufacturer you almost have to go against the grain and under the radar!

[PooDog]

I reckon Musk must be sitting in a comfy chair....big box of popcorn 🍿 and watching the masters of the universe slowly unraveling.....like dogs trying to catch their own tales

What a crack up

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Before getting carried away with Hybrids and what not, why not learn how to make a vehicle in RHD 1st. It is really not hard.

not hard, but in the global sense not worth it. How many countries are RHD, and how many cars do they buy? A total of 75 countries drive on the left, but the vast majority of them are poor and have very low sales. Of the richer, higher sales countries:

UK 2 million new cars in 2023
Australia 1.2 million
India 4 million
South Africa 0.5 million
Thailand 0.75 million


sounds a lot, until you realise that the new car market in the US is over 15 million cars on its own. That's why they don't bother to make RHD versions.

[Franco Cozzo]

We certainly punch above our weight considering our population in new car sales,

As far as a RHD markets goes we're a key player for sure.

Key player for utes

India is rapidly industrializing so that four million is going to turn into 10 million sooner rather than later, I reckon by 2030.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by simon varley

not hard, but in the global sense not worth it. How many countries are RHD, and how many cars do they buy? A total of 75 countries drive on the left, but the vast majority of them are poor and have very low sales. Of the richer, higher sales countries:

UK 2 million new cars in 2023
Australia 1.2 million
India 4 million
South Africa 0.5 million
Thailand 0.75 million


sounds a lot, until you realise that the new car market in the US is over 15 million cars on its own. That's why they don't bother to make RHD versions.

And Japan

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

And Japan

Ford never seemed to make inroads in Japan at all, maybe they're protecting their own market or something.

Or usual lack of brains at the C-suite of executives at head office.

Why the Japanese don’t buy American cars

But industry observers chalk the admittedly glaring disparity up to the unique characteristics of the Japanese auto market: American firms don’t really make cars that suit Japanese tastes, Americans have not invested in a dealership presence in the country, and many Japanese consumers have a persistent, if outdated, idea that American vehicles are unreliable and inefficient.

Roughly 40 percent of the cars sold in Japan are a special class of extra small cars call Kei cars. Nearly all of those are sold by Japanese brands, such as Suzuki and Daihatsu. Japan is a crowded country, and drivers like the convenience and efficiency of small vehicles that are easy to maneuver on narrow streets or fit into tight parking spaces.

“In Japan, there is a different market and different consumer,” said Kristin Dziczek, vice president of industry, labor & economics at the Center for Automotive Research. Although U.S. autos aren’t taxed going into Japan, American cars aren’t made for Japanese consumers. “We are giving them our off-cast, things we make for the North American consumer that we hope we can then sell in other markets.”

Japanese automakers are so adept at serving their home turf that about 95 percent of the cars on Japanese roads are Japanese makes. Imports make up the balance, and most of those are European luxury vehicles or sports cars.

Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Volkswagen including Audi, all sell tens of thousands of cars in Japan each year. While that is still a pretty small number compared with the overall local market and other major markets, it isn’t nothing, said Tokyo-based CLSA analyst Christopher Richter.

American carmakers “don’t really try,” Richter said. Ford left Japan entirely in 2017. GM sold only about 700 cars there in 2018.

The trouble for American brands is that it is tough to compete against comparable Japanese vehicles without differentiating themselves in some way, he said.

That is perhaps what accounts for the popularity of Fiat Chrysler’s Jeep brand. Almost invariably, the Jeeps that Richter sees in Japan are Wranglers, which is the model perhaps most emblematic of the brand and the rugged, outdoor American lifestyle it symbolizes. The Jeep brand has a strikingly strong image abroad, said Rebecca Lindland, an independent auto analyst.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/toyo...-in-japan.html

So basically we just can't be ****ed putting in any effort, seems like Japan doesn't want a Ford Ranger and its just all too hard

Japan moves 4.8 million new cars a year, taking into account the RHD markets theres 13.25 million cars on the table that they can get a slice of if they put in some effort.

I don't get this mentality of 'Oh I've got enough sales, I don't need to get anymore' - if I had someone on my sales team like that they'd be shown the door real quick after a slap over the back of the head.

Even taking into account opportunity cost, I reckon they're leaving a lot on the table.

40% of Japan's car sales are Kei cars - make a scaled down version of the single cab Ranger to Kei dimensions and put a destroked 999cc Ecoboost engine to 653cc in it.

To qualify as a kei car, an automobile has to be no taller than 2 metres, no wider than 1.45 metres and no longer than 3.4 metres. In terms of engine displacement, the maximum allowed is 660 cc. There's no official limit on engine power, but it's very unusual for a factory kei car to have more than 47 kW.

There you go, 'low effort' project on the back of a key platform you already have, that you've already sunk the development costs on the majority of it, that covers over a third of what Japanese consumers buy.

Is it going to be perfect? No, the other kei trucks are cab over,

But its an entry point to test the waters in a segment that covers over a third of their new car market, if you had a set of balls on you.

Maybe there needs to be a fun competition within Ford, CEO comes out and runs a competition internally amongst all their engineering departments globally and says hey take a bunch of engineers, and do this in your spare time, winning team gets $250,000 USD to share amongst themselves.

Suddenly 5 propeller hats from each of their engineering teams globally start burning the midnight oil on a fun side project out of hours to win big.

Whats $250,000 USD to Ford?

[jpd80]

Here’s the deal as explained to me, the majority of Ford’s profits comes from
F Series trucks, Ranger (plus Bronco/Everest) and Transit RWD & FWD vans.

Everything else in US /Europe is either breakeven, a small profit or controlled loss.
These vehicles fall into the category of products for dealers to sell and service but in
the last decade, Ford has made big efforts to improve profitability through higher prices
which in turn have reduced sales and builds which in turn prevents supply to ROW markets.

In our market, Ford embracing Ranger and Everest has been totally vindicated
as FoA’s prime profit generators, I hope they get a seat at the table to expand
on that with other vehicles that give Ford a distinct advantage over competition.

In my situation, had Ford offered something like a soft road, low ride height Everest
as a petrol RWD, we would have seriously considered (bought). I accept the reasons
why such a vehicle is not possible right now but may be something worth considering
if Europe and USA remain unable to supply even the basic suite of showroom vehicles
to Australia. Maybe Ford AUS engineering can adapt local solutions/regional vehicles
that can fly under the radar with costs.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In my situation, had Ford offered something like a soft road, low ride height Everest
as a petrol RWD, we would have seriously considered (bought). I accept the reasons
why such a vehicle is not possible right now but may be something worth considering
if Europe and USA remain unable to supply even the basic suite of showroom vehicles
to Australia. Maybe Ford AUS engineering can adapt local solutions/regional vehicles
that can fly under the radar with costs.

There's a lot of little ones and twos on the table up for grabs that they're constantly overlooking, things that wouldn't take too much effort to cater for either, I think one of the problem is Thailand doesn't do Ecoboost engines or something, and they have to come from South Africa, hence why Ecoboost Amarok comes from South Africa for our market.

I don't think its 'unable' its 'not interested' and there's no drive at Ford Australia to actually fight for it either, plus we're a shitty little outpost on the *** end of the world they rotate CEOs through that are going to be pensioned out, we love playing musical CEOs.

They're happy sitting on Ranger and Everest sales, but they're under threat from new platforms from other manufacturers, Kia has a ute coming onboard soon, Hilux will be coming due for a refresh, and there's also the political climate at the moment who can torpedo the Ranger/Everest twins with a stroke of a pen with emissions schemes like we saw go through parliament recently (how hard did Toyota and the others come out the gate to lobby the government - tells you something).

When was the last CEO with drive that Ford Australia had, Geoff Polites? The guy died nearly 20 years ago now.

Pretty sure they fired the majority of their Ranger engineering team here in Australia,

Realistically I don't think Ford Australia is going to exist as an engineering hub by the end of this decade, they'll be based in Thailand/China as a low cost engineering team for Ford Asia Pacific once they come up to speed.

We haven't been the 'Pacific Mexicans' for a long time now, which is what attracted the US giants to Australia in the first place.

We don't have a political climate interested in attracting business and opportunities from overseas, if anything we're openly hostile to it politically these days.

If its not property or digging shit up out of the ground to sell to China, then we're not interested.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ford never seemed to make inroads in Japan at all, maybe they're protecting their own market or something.

Or usual lack of brains at the C-suite of executives at head office.



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/toyo...-in-japan.html

So basically we just can't be ****ed putting in any effort, seems like Japan doesn't want a Ford Ranger and its just all too hard

Japan moves 4.8 million new cars a year, taking into account the RHD markets theres 13.25 million cars on the table that they can get a slice of if they put in some effort.

I don't get this mentality of 'Oh I've got enough sales, I don't need to get anymore' - if I had someone on my sales team like that they'd be shown the door real quick after a slap over the back of the head.

Even taking into account opportunity cost, I reckon they're leaving a lot on the table.

40% of Japan's car sales are Kei cars - make a scaled down version of the single cab Ranger to Kei dimensions and put a destroked 999cc Ecoboost engine to 653cc in it.



There you go, 'low effort' project on the back of a key platform you already have, that you've already sunk the development costs on the majority of it, that covers over a third of what Japanese consumers buy.

Is it going to be perfect? No, the other kei trucks are cab over,

But its an entry point to test the waters in a segment that covers over a third of their new car market, if you had a set of balls on you.

Maybe there needs to be a fun competition within Ford, CEO comes out and runs a competition internally amongst all their engineering departments globally and says hey take a bunch of engineers, and do this in your spare time, winning team gets $250,000 USD to share amongst themselves.

Suddenly 5 propeller hats from each of their engineering teams globally start burning the midnight oil on a fun side project out of hours to win big.

Whats $250,000 USD to Ford?

Having been in Japan for two weeks last month several things really stood out which align exactly as you quoted like virtually no Ford or US vehicles on the road in Japan.

Firstly, their public transport system is so good and cheap (metro lines not so much the inter-city services which had big fare increases last year) you run clocks by the train departures and not the other way around…it means you don’t really need a car in the major cities as train stations are almost every 2 blocks and the urban sprawl of large outer suburbs like in Melbourne don’t really exist. And you can do a huge amount of shopping or food purchases within these stations underground.

Interesting observation, very little on street parking in Tokyo or Osaka, no bike lanes either…again because of exceptional public transport, plus I don't think you can own a car without over-night parking for it in Tokyo.

Struggled to see any Fords anywhere…spotted two Rangers the whole time, a Mustang and that was about if. Plenty of Jeeps, mostly all were Wranglers as described plus several Chryslers.

Delivery vehicles were very rarely anything ever over 3 tonners, I expected far more vans like HiAce’s but much more of the small Kei commercial vehicles, I kept thinking I could park that inside my Transit Custom or Vito.

It’s just too difficult to get into some of the retail/commercial areas with large trucks as there is virtually no on-street parking on front of retail/commercial areas like what you see here in Oz for beverage/daily consumables/dry goods deliveries etc...supplies etc…

Pretty much everything in Japan just effin'works.

Lower yen means a can of Coke is just over $1AUD and can of JD & Coke in a Japanese 7Eleven store is around $2AUD.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Pretty sure they fired the majority of their Ranger engineering team here in Australia.

No, that's incorrect, I made that mistaken assumption a while back.

There are still over 1400 engineers at Ford Australia, 99% of them are attached to T6
(% According to Fordman1)

Keep in mind that those engineers are responsible for developing periodic updates of
all models, Bronco, Rangers, Everest and Amarok…..that’s still a huge commitment
over the complete product cycle and most likely into the early 2030s

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, that's incorrect, I made that mistaken assumption a while back.

There are still over 1400 engineers at Ford Australia, 99% of them are attached to T6
(% According to Fordman1)

Keep in mind that those engineers are responsible for developing periodic updates of
all models, Bronco, Rangers, Everest and Amarok…..that’s still a huge commitment
over the complete product cycle and most likely into the early 2030s

To add to this and without giving too much away, I was told that Ford China has the level of engineering ability to "top hat a platform" from another Ford engineering base. Obviously, that can and may change but not going to happen for a while.