Rear tyre excessive wear on inside

[Menai Mark]

Is anyone experiencing excessive tyre wear on the inside edge of the rear tyres?
I've had it checked 3 times and each time I've been advised that it's "in spec".
Now Ford garage are advising that a camber kit may need to be fitted at my cost. Car is 3 years old but has had this problem for at least 18 months. Been through almost 3 sets of tyres in 77k's.
Is this a common or unique problem? If others have experienced this issue what was done to fix? Thanks.
Mondeo MC Titanium 2011.

[sct911]

3 tyres in 77k isnt that bad, i seem to be going through sets every 5000km. I created my inner wear problem by lowering the car

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by Menai Mark

Is anyone experiencing excessive tyre wear on the inside edge of the rear tyres?
I've had it checked 3 times and each time I've been advised that it's "in spec".
Now Ford garage are advising that a camber kit may need to be fitted at my cost. Car is 3 years old but has had this problem for at least 18 months. Been through almost 3 sets of tyres in 77k's.
Is this a common or unique problem? If others have experienced this issue what was done to fix? Thanks.
Mondeo MC Titanium 2011.

Hi Menai,

It is a simple question, but what happened, if anything, 18 months ago?

Seems odd that the problem commenced 18 months after delivery(?) The specs on the Mondeo are Rear toe in 2.8 mm with a variation of +/- 2.5 mm.

If you got the car rear aligned about 18 months ago, then I'm guessing that this is the start of the problems. On occasion I have asked alignment places a couple of questions: 1. What setting would you use for this vehicle? and 2. When was the last time your equipment was calibrated?

On our Mondeo I allowed the front to be aligned at the 15.000 km service and in the next 15, 000 km the inside edges of the front tyres got chopped out. At that stage there was almost 3 mm of tread depth left on the outside. Finally traced to the front toe setting being maladjusted to toe out instead of toe in.

There is a setting for camber angle too, but I believe this is pretty hard to adjust, if it can be adjusted - hence the advice about a camber kit - but I can't see that this would alter from the factory setting unless something abnormal happened at the 18 month of ownership point.

When you had the settings checked did they provide you with readings or were you satisfied with the "within spec" advice? And if it is within spec then why the need for a camber kit.

If you can provide more information, then this might allow a more informed ability to provide advice.

Cheers

[AlanD]

Originally Posted by sct911

3 tyres in 77k isnt that bad, i seem to be going through sets every 5000km. I created my inner wear problem by lowering the car

Hi SCT911,

I disagree.

3 sets of tyres in 77,000 km is woeful.

Except for the bad alignment at 15,000 km (see above) the OE tyres (Bridgestone Potenzas) on our Mondeo would have lasted 45,000 km and the current set (Dunlop Sport SP1) have reached 32,000 km and have 40% tread left.

Of course, if you drive vigorously, especially if it is urban stop start, with lots of corners and/or roundabouts, then this is going to adversely affect tyre life.

But you pays for the fun you have, one way or another.

Cheers

[allanv6gt]

Re rear tyre wear...
my woeful OEM Contis lasted 35000k, getting low when a flat tyre came visiting (hooray!!)
Current Yokohamas are 30000km with plenty left. Be mindful of Treadwear rating when discussing tyre wear. Smaller number = stickier compound giving more fun but less mileage.

If not wearing evenly, then the alignment is simply out.
Have you changed from standard size wheels amd of profile of tyres ?
When doing this, you need to maintiain the rolling circumference(a factor of overall diameter = tyre profile thingy + rim diam) for speedo reading (front wheels, I know) but will also impact suspension/tyre road surface attack angles if significantly less/more than OEM..

Or...how about sagging rear springs (maybe depends on IRS design)......

[Xauterus]

Seems odd that you are having a tyre wear problem on the rear of a front wheel drive car. Find a specialist alignment shop and ask them for a print out of all the alignment figures of the car.
A friend of mine (Brisbane) does suspension work and quite often gets cars from dealerships that are too hard for them to fix. If the dealer cant throw parts at it then they are often lost.

[DRU842]

Hi Mark,
Assuming your from Menai in Sydney, I use the guys at Tyrepower Menai and have the tyres rotated, balanced & aligned every 12 months for approx $100.00. Most dealers I know out source this work. I've been getting 45,000km from sets of BF Goodrich's & the original Bridgestones.

[mighty-mon]

If you do find a camber kit please let me know as I also have issues rear tires scolloping and it was suggested by a suspension specialist to find a rear camber kit but I have had no success thus far.

[Menai Mark]

Hi All,

Thanks for getting back with various pov's. Just to answer a few questions:
1. I believe this has been happening for longer than 18 months - probably since new. 18 months ago was when I first noticed it specifically on the rear tyres. Initially I was having issues with the scrubbing out happening on the Fronts, so then I'd move the tyres to the rear, where they'd scrub out further. So my first impression was that the rear was just making worse what was already started. However, when the fronts stopped scrubbing out due to a wheel alignment and the issue continued happening on the rear, that's when I knew there was a problem. Why I didn't pick it up on the first set of tyres: the original rear tyres were both replaced within 15,000km's due me scraping a gutter after 4000 k's and replacing one with a second hand Pontenza and then when that one wore down, I replaced both at 15,000k's. That's why I didn't really pick this up until 18 months ago but I believe the problem has always been there.

2. I too thought it was a wheel alignment problem gone wrong and have had it checked numerous times, but each time was told it's 'within spec'.

3. No change in wheel size. Just the bog standard size R18 45x135 (I think from memory).

4. I have been advised that it's a camber problem but this cannot be changed on the rears.

So now I've taken it to a tyre place recommended by the local Ford dealership and their verdict is that there is too much camber. As this cannot be changed then it must be a manufacturing defect. Took it back to Ford dealership yesterday to look at further and there response is 'it's within spec' and there's nothing they can do. Last week they were telling me they don't have the facility to check wheel alignment, now they're telling me they've looked at it and it's within spec. And they say that I can fit a camber kit (as advised by Pedders). So I don't have any confidence in any of the advise I have been given. Everyone's telling me a different story. Look's like they're just trying to fob me off.
Anyone in Sydney know of a good Ford service department in Sydney for a second opinion? (Not Dominelli as that's where I'm getting the run around from.) A service manager's name would be good too.

[allanv6gt]

Conflicting advice from the product experts , eh ?
What are the numbers they claim are 'within spec' ?

Time for a registered problem with Ford Customer Service and get their roving super-tech to review and advise (worked for me early last year). By doing this, even if your warranty runs out, you have a record of a problem notified under warranty which they are bound to honour.

Might also be worth a call to Consumer Affiars (or whatever they are called these days) and see if they can offer suggestions on what appears to be a manufacturing defect.

Many years ago my father bought a new Falcon and took it home to his north coast home. Front spring sagged in short order, and he was told to drive it back to Sydney, where the dealer replaced the whole front suspension on that side. No issues whatsoever.

[Menai Mark]

Thanks Allan. Here are the Camber specs:
Bob Janes 31/3/14
LH Side = -2.09 degree
RH Side = -2.14 degree
Was advised by their expert that shouldn't be any more than -1.30 regardless of Ford spec.

Tyrepower 6/3/14
LH Side = -1.27 degree
RH Side = -2.06 degree

I think I'm reading the printout correctly. Different tyre places, different day, different specs.
I'll see what Dominelli come back with today - then I'll contact Ford. Yesterday morning they hadn't even contacted Ford even though I had had asked them to do so. Supposedly by the afternoon they had contacted Ford and were waiting for them. Although I believe that all they're doing is contacting them to see if they'll cover the cost of fitting a Camber Kit under warranty. If they need to fit a Camber kit then there's something wrong - but they don't seem to see it that way.
According to them ALL Mondeo's have camber similar to mine it's just the way they are. He couldn't explain why other Mondeo's don't have a problem with the tyres scrubbing out though.
If I don't get any joy out of Ford, then yes I'll be contacting the Department of Consumer Affairs.

[allanv6gt]

Well, my back tyres have been going around on the same rim in the same rear location for 30,000kms, with still about half way to go on tread wear. No sign of inside scrubbing.

Yes they need to cover their labour costs/parts under warranty claims (thats fair for them), but it shouldn't be this difficult when there is clearly a problem.
Bad press in this case in very bad press for all Ford Australia ......

What is the Ford spec for rear camber? (you could also try googling UK sites....)
Have you asked them to show you a used Mondeo with that scrub pattern?
Have you shown them your own readout from 2 different independent specialists?

Good luck, hang in there......

[AlanD]

Hi Menai,

The Ford Service manual for the Mk 4 Mondeo give a rear camber setting of -1.32 degrees (both left and right) with a variance of plus/minus 1.25 degrees.

On these figures both the sets of readings you have given to you are within specification. I would tend to believe the Bob Jane readings mainly because they are close to the same and I would expect this on a mass produced vehicle.

These readings are for kerb weight which usually expects some extra weight in the rear of the car above the empty load. On a measurement jig I would expect these readings to be towards the negative limit. On this basis the car seems to be inside the manufacturer's spec.

Did they give you toe readings as well? FWD cars normally require toe in on the rear wheels and Ford's spec gives a figure of 2.8 mm nominal for each side. with a plus/minus tolerance of 1 mm.

If the toe figure is close to zero or a toe out value, then I would say this is the cause of your problem.

Rear wheel drive vehicles with independent suspension normally get a toe out value and many alignment places do not bother to check the values and because rear alignment is only a recent requirement (solid rear axles don't often get aligned) they are often set to some arbitrary value based on "experience" which leads to a toe out value that is "normal" on more recent RWD cars and there are lots of those.

Do you have these values?

Cheers

[Menai Mark]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Did they give you toe readings as well? FWD cars normally require toe in on the rear wheels and Ford's spec gives a figure of 2.8 mm nominal for each side. with a plus/minus tolerance of 1 mm.

If the toe figure is close to zero or a toe out value, then I would say this is the cause of your problem.

Rear wheel drive vehicles with independent suspension normally get a toe out value and many alignment places do not bother to check the values and because rear alignment is only a recent requirement (solid rear axles don't often get aligned) they are often set to some arbitrary value based on "experience" which leads to a toe out value that is "normal" on more recent RWD cars and there are lots of those.

Do you have these values?

Cheers

Hi Alan,

Thanks for your response.

From what I can tell Toe was:
LH +2.3mm, RH -0.5. Total +1.8mm
Adjusted by BJ's to:
LH +2.7mm, RH +2.6mm. Total +5.3

So is that Toe in or Toe out?

[XP6]

Sorry for the tangent but,
"my woeful OEM Contis lasted 35000k"
Contact sports were they, I had them on my old ST170... I'd be happy to get more than 15thou out of them, wonderful grippy tyre nice and quiet too... and way overpriced!(400+ a corner back in 03~4)
All tyres I put on after them just didnt seem to compare in grip or quietness(I found the potenza's terrible in this respect...).

[AlanD]

Hi again Menai,

Positive Toe values are toe in negative are toe out, so one side of the car was badly aligned by a considerable amount (almost 2.3 mm) and I would expect this to do two things.

Firstly, the toe out condition would lead to scrubbing of the inside edge of the tyre and because this would increase the rolling drag (friction),
Secondly, a tendency for this increased friction to drag on the right rear corner.

Now depending on how rotations were done there might be a result, over time, the inside scrubbing that you have witnessed. And I'm not sure what the drag on the right rear might do, but I suspect it would cause some crabbing towards the right.

Anyway, the figures seem to be within spec and if the alignment was done recently, then I would be tempted to wait for a few thousand K's and see if the problem persists.

If your tyres are not directional or have to be mounted with a particular sidewall on the outside, then reversing them on the rims would give you some better idea of inside wear and perhaps some extra tyre life.

Cheers

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by AlanD

Hi again Menai,

Firstly, the toe out condition would lead to scrubbing of the inside edge of the tyre

+1 did the same thing to me on a different vehicle, did some repairs and forgot to get an alignment done after about two weeks they were shagged out, lucky for me they were the next item to buy.

[Roasty]

We have an 2011 MC Titanium that we bought 2nd hand at around 62,000 km and in Excellent condition. I did multiple searches on the vehicle before buying so know its service history and Im pretty sure it hasn't been in any kind of accident. After my wife complained of a shuddering steering wheel under braking I had the car looked at today for warped front discs (is this a common complaint on an MC at 100,000km?) but to my great surprise was that my Mech picked up rear tyres almost down to the canvas on the rear tyres on the inside - seriously ??? How does a front wheel drive car chew out the inside edge of rear tyres ?? So following on from the above posts is this a common problem with the MC ? And it seems its a toe out problem not a camber problem ???? How adjustable is the rear end of the MC to fix this problem ??

[Binny]

My OEM Goodyears did over 90,000kms. I got rid of them because they were cracking and throwing chunks, still not worn out. I was amazed at how evenly they were all worn, including the front. Its a povvo pack LX though rather than a Zetec or Ti.

[rondeo]

Yes rear toe-in is adjustable and looks by the numbers in Haynes manual to be twice the angle as the fronts.

It might be best to get a four wheel alignment by a specialist with good modern equipment, and some new tyres!

The rear alignment on my cars has never been checked or adjusted, reason being I rotate tyres myself at oil changes (15000km) and haven't seen any abnormal wear or steering issues.

The front wheels were getting excessive wear on the inside, so I gave the toe in an extra quarter turn on the tie rods and that fixed it.

While on the subject it may be that each car has it's own best setting for toe in, depending on the state of the suspension etc under actual driving conditions. That's why I do mine by trial and error, front wheels at least.

[Roasty]

Rear tyre wear update - Im now really confused as the local Ford dealership says there is no (official) adjustment for camber in the rear end of an MC Mondeo. Is that correct?? Looking at the rear of the car our Mondo does have visibly negative camber - great for handling but not good for tyre wear based on my recent experience! But apparently the upper link has an additional hole that if used stands the wheel more upright - not a ford fix - but one that the local ford dealer guru has found works to stop excessive inside tyre edge wear
Has anyone else heard of this 'fix'?

[rondeo]

Is the camber out of specification then?

[empee82]

I purchased a second hand Ti last year and recently swapped the wheels to find the rear inside tread worn almost to canvas! Have been keeping an eye on the new tyres but will have them checked soon I think.

[rondeo]

AFAIK There is no provision for rear camber adjustment. Unless there is damage, (pot-hole etc) inside edge tyre wear on one side is a puzzle. May be a defect in the tyre itself?

I had the same problem on one of the front tyres, inside edge. Increased toe fixed it. Still puzzled why one side.

Get a wheel alignment report?

[NZ XR6]

The MB wears its tyres very evenly, but the MA had worn the inside shoulders on the rear tyres when purchased at 14,000 km. I rotated the tyres and had a wheel alignmet, and it was fine after that.