Victorian School Zones

[Tuddy200]

After travelling around after lunch today, which is shortly after 2:30pm I just got thinking about school zones, as I live the other side of town taking me through three school zones to and from work.

What are everyones thoughts on Victoria's School Zones? Should they be like the ACT, and last all day, should they be shortened? What should be the normal non-school time speed limit?

I'm for the 'all day' school zone idea, it elminates that factor of "but my clock says 2:25pm officer" and elminates any people dodging around it, if your not doing 40 through there then you deserve to be nabbed.

On the other hand these are proper main raods that have 5-6 sets of school zones on them, and 40 all day may cause traffic issues.

Last thing, is one road i'm talking about is 70, then you hit 40. Thats a 30kms drop, should there be better signage or a "slow down" area just after the signs? Should it only be 60 before? Even drop 70->50->40??

[Mechan1k]

There should be more warning signs IMHO ... especially coming down to a large drop in speed.

Near where I live there's a few places where ... in a 90 zone ... there's a 60km/h AHEAD sign in place ... and it IS plenty of warning.

Have come across a few country towns where the speed drop is from 100km.h to 50km/h ... no warning ... and a police car hiding in wait ... awful really ... and not safe when people slam the brakes on.

[holmsy]

i think most of them should be electronic.
it should display the speed you are supposed to be doing rather then relying on people haveing accurate clocks and knowing exactly what time they are aloud to go what speed

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by holmsy

i think most of them should be electronic.

There are ones around Sydneythat flash LEDs around the speed on the sign ... at the prescribed times that the school zone is in force ... giving the driver plenty of warning as well ... much easier for everyone ... except the government as it costs them to make the signs and the less people they catch speeding as well.

[Riksta]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

There are ones around Sydneythat flash LEDs around the speed on the sign ... at the prescribed times that the school zone is in force ... giving the driver plenty of warning as well ... much easier for everyone ... except the government as it costs them to make the signs and the less people they catch speeding as well.

Not a bad idea at all.

Although I'm disgusted to think the government wouldn't like them because it means "less money because more people are aware of the limit and don't speed", shouldn't it be that way to start with, making people more aware to save a child's (or any pedestrian for that matter) life?

[xbgs351]

I would like to see the statistics for vehicle and pedestrian accidents in the vicinity of school zones both before and after the introduction of the lower limits. I suspect that there may have been no effect or even a negative effect.

Lower speed limits in school zones are a double edged sword. They greatly reduce the gaps between cars, they can cause sudden braking that passes down a column of cars like a stack of dominoes, and they can reduce the predictability of the speed that cars are travelling at due to the greatly increased speed difference between the slower cars that are obeying the limit and the faster cars which are ignoring or have not seen the speed limit.

[uranium_death]

There is great inconsistency in application of speed limits in school zones.

Some school zones have a "school hours only" speed limit, where the 40km/h limit only applies between 8:30 and 9:30, and 2:30 and 4:30. Locally, this is applied near Glen Waverley Primary School on High Street Road, and on Highbury Road at Burwood East Primary School.

Some zones are 24/7 40 zones, such as Mount View Primary down Shepherd's Road, as well as near Wheelers Hill Primary.

I think to rid of all confusion, all school zones should be 40 at all times. The stretch of the zone is usually small and will only slow traveling time down by seconds.

Also, rather than have a tiny "40" sign, have a big "school zone begins" sign as it will be far more noticeable. If you do not know that a school zone is 40 km/h, you should not be allowed on the road. Then place a "40 zone ends" at the end, allowing motorists to speed up beyond this point.

[Tuddy200]

I believe it was another one of those rush jobs that went to the heart of many parents/grandparents etc. who have children which pushed for the enforcment of these limits in school areas and the idea wasn't given much thought as they were trying to keep people happy.

I'd be happy with the electronic signs that change when the official time comes, and better signage as posted above. I notice they can use these signs around melbourne, but forget about the country towns. I have to agree with Mechan1k with speed drop.

[TUF_302]

School zone limits should only apply during the hours kids are there, say, 8:30am-4pm, whats the point of slowing to 40 if theres no kids around

[Full Noise]

How about they abolish school zones altogether and teach children to look before they run out onto the bloody road.

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

How about they abolish school zones altogether and teach children to look before they run out onto the bloody road.

Thats what a normal sane person would think, but unfortunatly its easier to blame other things....

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

How about they abolish school zones altogether and teach children to look before they run out onto the bloody road.

How about wake up ! You obviously dont have kids otherwise you wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment like that.

[XR8GRL]

Originally Posted by EAadam

How about wake up ! You obviously dont have kids otherwise you wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment like that.

That's funny, every time I've walked my dog past the local primary school, it's the parents I see doing the speeding.

[RG]

Why should I have to slow down to 40k at 3 in the morning just because a school is nearby? Pretty sure that there would be no kids there at that time. Also to those saying it should be 24/7 as it is only a small strech of road so it doesn't matter if you have to slow down, just because it is like that where you are doesn't mean it is like that everywhere. Take here in Ballarat for example, main road through town has 6 school zone in it and it is a 70 zone at normal times. Still think it would only be a minor inconvenience?

[Green X]

Why have it all day, once school is in they don’t leave the grounds till school finishes, and 20 minutes after it’s finished you would have a better chance of seeing a kid in the Gibson desert LOL so why the 2houre zone change.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by EAadam

How about wake up ! You obviously dont have kids otherwise you wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment like that.

I do have kids. And guess what? I teach them that the road is for traffic and is a dangerous place. Stop listening to bull*hit government propaganda and wake up to yourself.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by XR8GRL

That's funny, every time I've walked my dog past the local primary school, it's the parents I see doing the speeding.

Irresponsible parents. Thats the problem. Im just saying that my kids are the most important thing in my life and i never do more than 30 around the school. Some parents just dont give a ***** and thats where the problem is. Its not the general public, its the parents who think "Oh my kid will never get hit by a car" who are flouting the law more than anyone else. I see it all the time when i pick up me boys.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I do have kids . And guess what? I teach them that the road is for traffic and is a dangerous place. Stop listening to bull*hit government propaganda and wake up to yourself.

Agreed, the only time during my whole life that anyone was hurt at school was once those stupid speeds limits were introduced, 2 people were hit at my school, not their fault, they were half way accross (Standing on the middle lines) and people so busy watching their speed drifted across and hit them, one of the girls was a good friend at the time and will have back injurys for life.

Just another law to make money and make it look like the government is doing something, instead of as you have said just teaching the kids (Like i was taught) to watch the road as it's for cars, not people!...or Cyclists man they are giving me the $#!T$ lately

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I do have kids. And guess what? I teach them that the road is for traffic and is a dangerous place. Stop listening to bull*hit government propaganda and wake up to yourself.

Whats with the harshness mate. I also teach my kids about the dangers of the road but kids are kids. When you least expect it they will dart out onto the roadway.

[Full Noise]

I’ll tell what the harshness is about, mate. Stupid comments like yours insinuating that because I don’t jump on the wipe off five, 40 zone government bulls*it propaganda bandwagon, that I must be some sort of outcast in society.

Like you, my children are my entire life, however, I’m sick of governments always bowing down to the lowest common denominator. I would much rather someone driving past a school doing 50 of heaven forbid 60 and watching all of the surroundings, than some stupid incompetent fool thinking that he / she is a good driver by obeying the speed limit and spending 99% of the time watching their bloody Speedo and hitting someone.

Just one other thing. I travel between 4000 and 5500 kms a week and see quite a few school zones in different states. Just because I don’t agree with these stupid laws doesn’t mean that I disobey them.

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

I’ll tell what the harshness is about, mate. Stupid comments like yours insinuating that because I don’t jump on the wipe off five, 40 zone government bulls*it propaganda bandwagon, that I must be some sort of outcast in society.

Like you, my children are my entire life, however, I’m sick of governments always bowing down to the lowest common denominator. I would much rather someone driving past a school doing 50 of heaven forbid 60 and watching all of the surroundings, than some stupid incompetent fool thinking that he / she is a good driver by obeying the speed limit and spending 99% of the time watching their bloody Speedo and hitting someone.

Just one other thing. I travel between 4000 and 5500 kms a week and see quite a few school zones in different states. Just because I don’t agree with these stupid laws doesn’t mean that I disobey them.

I never insinuated that. I will leave this thread alone now.

[Full Noise]

I apologise for the words used in post 16. They were not necessary and thanks to Falcon Coupe for editing.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Just another law to make money and make it look like the government is doing something, instead of as you have said just teaching the kids (Like i was taught) to watch the road as it's for cars, not people

Yup. I think the authorities have forgotten that kids need to be taught like they did years ago when I was a kid, and that the roads were for cars.

I still remember the jingle in the early sixties when I was in prep "look to the left and look to the right and look to the left again..." and keep looking as you walk across the road and dont run.

And I never knew of any kid who walked or ran out in front of traffic like they do these days.

Makes me reminisce...

When I was in grade 6 age 10 or 11, I was flag monitor, rain hail or shine, stopping the traffic along a main dual highway in the mornings. People would shudder at the thought of that these days. But I never thought it unsafe at the time, and never had a problem with drivers. That was before the lollypop ladies existed, who these days tend to assert their authority and jump out unnecessarily in front of oncoming cars, well before the kids have reached the crossing.

Back to the subject...

Seems to me that kids will never be taught or realise their responsiblities when crossing or being near a road, when they direct attention only at drivers. Kids now think if they get hit, of course its the drivers fault, regardless of their own actions. That is the mentality these days set by people in authority, and the media does not help at all, and they wonder why the road toll is still high!! Perhaps they should be held more accountable.

It was only this afternoon near home there were a bunch of schoolkids skylarking on the road as they were walking home, when there was a footpath. One kid purposely pushed another right into my path as I was approaching.

And these kids would've been about 15 years old, in a couple of years they will be driving!!!

[[Tonko]]

School Zones are funny things, one i can think of near my place, (my primary school) It has a highway on one side with 60km zone (LED signs), that goes from 2:30 until 4:30, which is not what the sign says (turns off at 4) and for the years i went there, we werent allowed anywhere near that road but on the other side of the school, near an estate, it is 70k's 24/7... i dont get these....
plus coming out of side streets and not having signs sucks

I think that if people took more a more responsible approach instead of making silly laws, It would make the road a safer and less stressful place (im not saying you should relax, just not be pedantic about trivial rubbish)

[FPV8U]

I can understand it in some ways around primary schools, but to have them around high schools is a joke, if by the age of 12-13 you cannot cross a road safely what hope do you have in life!

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by EAadam

How about wake up ! You obviously dont have kids otherwise you wouldnt have posted such a stupid comment like that.

I remember when I was in school (79-91) and the school rules on crossing the road. In primary school you had to cross at the crossings and got in trouble if you didn't. The main road nearby was a 75 zone. In secondary college there were main roads nearby - if you got busted crossing these roads without using the overpass or the crossings, you got detention. The roads there were 60km/h. If your ball went over the fence during recess, you asked the teacher permission to get it. I never heard of anyone being hit by a car near these schools in my whole time in school.

On top of that there was a TV safety campaign with Hector the cat with his crossing tips "look to the right, look to the left, look to the right again.
Now we have - if you were doing 5km/h over the limit when the pedestrian stepped out onto the road without even looking - it's the driver's fault. It teaches nothing of pedestrian responsibility near roads to kids or anyone for that matter.

Before people start saying kids can't comprehend this stuff - I was cycling to primary school when I was 10. By 14 I was cycling along main roads over a few suburbs (Mt Waverley to Box Hill). Early primary school kids should be supervised by parents/older siblings or teachers/supervisors at school entry and exit times if they are deemed to be incapable of comprehending the rules. I'm pretty sure most parents wouldn't leave children in grades Prep 1 & 2 to make their own way home anyway. I don't see why secondary schools need school speed limits at all with older children - who should have developed safe behaviour near traffic by this stage (age 11+). Just about all school crossings have crossing supervisors now as it is. The ones that don't at school start and finish times aren't in school speed limit zones

If you stick to crossing at appropriate points when safe to do so, then having normal speed limits is no more dangerous. The traffic will have to stop at the crossing whether the speed limit is 60 or 40km/h. If cars run the red, then I don't think the speed limits would stop them either.

I believe the combination of school rules and road safety education worked well in the past and the current approach only seeks to increase revenue and doesn't make it any safer.

[Tuddy200]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I can understand it in some ways around primary schools, but to have them around high schools is a joke, if by the age of 12-13 you cannot cross a road safely what hope do you have in life!

I have to fully agree with you here, I work 300m straight down the road that T-Bones a high school for Year 11+12 and the whole street is 40! Everyday, All Day.

Here's the interesting part though, they don't have a crossing, they have a center road island and thats it, they have to use there own judgement to cross the road, and there has never been an accident. I was at the school, and now work close to it.

Primary Schools I can understand, but still it makes you wonder why if the ball goes over the fence, wouldnt they run out into "normal" traffic anyway? Start and Finish times there are teachers, parents and crossing supervisors.

My point is that of the confusion to the driver, not only are you glued to the speedo, but the revenue they must get from drivers doing 5 kms over at 8:02am there time, compared to 7:55am your time, must be amazing.

By the way, whats kids are usually at school at 8 anyway? 8:30am to 9:00am would be fine!

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Yup. I think the authorities have forgotten that kids need to be taught like they did years ago when I was a kid, and that the roads were for cars.

Agreed.

I don't remember the last time I saw an ad that was about looking both ways before crossing the road.

The streets are now just as much as a playground as parks, and the motoring community have to watch out for kids and drive slower.

I think this is why so many people (adults included) just step out now without looking. People are learning that a car will giveway to a pedestrian.

[pb02]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

How about they abolish school zones altogether and teach children to look before they run out onto the bloody road.

AMEN!!! I was always taught road safety by my parents and at the school. Anyone remember the 'look right, look left' add campaigns?
When I was at school we had a road in front that was 80kms. Not once did we ever have any incidents on that road, but then again, back then we all were taught the same!
Education is a lost art these days..... :

[Nickxb]

They trialed 30km speed limits in some QLD schools, it was the best thing they ever did, so much more safe for the students