LDV eDeliver 9 Electric Van

[DFB FGXR6]

Wow! $120,000 before road costs for a panel van!

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...rice-and-specs

Cab chassis 65kWh: $99,990
Van mid roof: $116,537
Van high roof: $118,836

"Consider that the LDV Deliver 9 diesel van range costs between $43,490 and $46,990 drive-away for ABN holders, while the diesel cab-chassis models cost between $44,990 and $46,990....."

Not trying to start an anti-electric argument here, but how many businesses are going to spend that on a delivery van?

Likewise spending that sort of money on a people mover -

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...rice-and-specs

MIFA 9 Mode: $106,000
MIFA 9 Executive: $117,000
MIFA 9 Luxe: $131,000

"This makes each variant between $52,000 and $58,000 more expensive than an equivalent LDV MIFA petrol model in Mode......"

[Falcon SXR8]

Wow 12 hours to charge on single phase, 150-280km range depending on model, 90kmh top speed, 1500kg tow capacity and all for only $100 000+

Shut up and take my money

[au2000]

Just checked my diary, can’t be 1 April yet can it?

[Citroënbender]

Considering the way that many dual cab Utes really only get used for school runs and other light duties, the power/range may not really be an issue. But how on earth would an accountant spin the cost to benefit the buyer?

[Dr Smith]

If things had of gone to plan the large E-Tansit van would be on sale by now so I wonder what pricing Ford will set here.

https://www.ford.com.au/future-vehicle/e-transit/

[Dr Smith]

Jumped on the UK Ford website and tried to price up equivalent specs on an E-Transit and an auto diesel version of similar output and the difference in favour of diesel was only a few thousand pounds...if Ford Aus can maintain the same differential, then they are onto an absolute winner if stock availability is good enough.

Note: Payload of E-Transit is listed as around 900kg and for the model in diesel I chose it's closer to 1300kg, not what I costed however larger battery version has 198kW of awesomeness, bit biggie is diesel will get you approx. 2.5 times the range...but a tank of diesel in Oz hurts, worse in the UK.

Just for fun I priced up a fully specced e-Transit with just about everything available and got to equiv. of $AUD105,000 so it can get expensive but that was a spec level not even available on the LDV.

[tweeked]

Clients are asking transport companies to get on board. The cost is largely irrelevant at this stage, if you don't have one, you will look like a dinosaur.

Selling the next batch will be a different matter.

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Clients are asking transport companies to get on board.

Same clients will complain when the price goes up yet again

[Franco Cozzo]

I think I missed the punchline of this joke

$120,000 Chinese van

Mind you they've beaten Ford to the punch with the EV Transit in Australia so they might get some early adopters.

These guys were a customer of mine:

https://www.sea-electric.com/products/transit-ev/

https://www.sea-electric.com/products/sea-isuzu-evs/

So there's already options around, I've been in one of their Isuzu EVs and it hauled *** compared to the diesel version.

[Bossxr8]

If the E-Transit comes in significantly cheaper it will be hilarious.

LDV's are getting a reputation for rusting within 2 years and LDV dealers are rejecting the claims. Good luck buying one.

The worst part is LDV are owned by SAIC, which is Chinese state owned. So buying one directly funds the CCP.

[Citroënbender]

Does it come with anything like OnStar built in? If so, I’d put money on a back door to the user metrics.

[marty351]

Virtue signalling companies are most likely the target market, and much like tik tok it will be a security and intelligence trojan horse. (Remember HUAWEI?)

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I've been in one of their Isuzu EVs and it hauled *** compared to the diesel version.

Well for about 2 hours.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Clients are asking transport companies to get on board. The cost is largely irrelevant at this stage, if you don't have one, you will look like a dinosaur.

Selling the next batch will be a different matter.

Seriously...I'd say clients at the moment just want stock to turn up, partially, some of it, part of it but just turn up somewhere within the millennium the booking office said it would....

You're going to have to give us some more info.....name the names...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Well for about 2 hours.

When you're doing last mile delivery across Melbourne like all these smaller trucks and vans, do you need more than 200km range?

My delivery run was 180km leaving from NW suburbs, going to NE then SE then back to the office again with only 8-10 drops and that would take 6-8 hours depending on traffic, all through metropolitan Melbourne.

You could easily do that with an electric truck or van.

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Seriously...I'd say clients at the moment just want stock to turn up, partially, some of it, part of it but just turn up somewhere within the millennium the booking office said it would....

You're going to have to give us some more info.....name the names...

Its probably going to be companies with ISO14001 in place who are going to start flexing on their suppliers, it'll be bigger businesses who have KPIs to meet on 'sustainable suppliers' or some nonsense.

It starts becoming prerequisites to have things like this to even get on a potential customers 'supplier list', if your company doesn't have an environmental management system in place then you won't make it onto their supplier list who they can purchase goods and services from.

I see my former employer is playing the green angle with their new electric forklift on their website, rather than the real story being their ****box 1984 Toyota forklift that leaks LPG finally crapped out and they had to replace it so they might as well as go electric

Me personally, I don't care what truck rocks up to deliver my goods, I just want it ASAP.

Given the price of diesel at the moment, how much closer are we to making EV's make finance sense from a running cost perspective?

[Sprintey]

If you had a boutique organic vegetable store in Barwon Heads and commuted to market in Geelong early each morning then charged it off the store's roof in the day, I can see it as a carbon neutral goer that customers would love.

[danzvtil]

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...rice-and-specs

Same as their electric Ute, $93k, $50k price difference, I just don’t get it.

An electric G10 sized van would work for me as I only do 12k a year, but geez it’s a big tipping point at these prices.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

If you had a boutique organic vegetable store in Barwon Heads and commuted to market in Geelong early each morning then charged it off the store's roof in the day, I can see it as a carbon neutral goer that customers would love.

Sprintey. Not at the speeds Franco would want to drive it at.


Franco, maybe but there's more to Victoria than Melb. an example.....Delivery trucks running out of Shepparton doing the long circuit. East toward Wang (120km) out to Bright (130km) some up the mountains to Falls or Hotham (25km uphill) then over to Wodonga via Myrtleford or via Tallangatta (160-200km) back to base and all this at 100km/h everyday. (How much of this would be regen braking I couldn't tell you.)
The battery packs would be getting a real workout.

Yeah they could tranfer to local EV trucks in each town, which would mean another storage depot but do you think clients will want to pay double and wait twice as long for their goods. There's already, just this forum punters complaining about long waits for goods.

I can see this whole feeling good fuzzy EV "experiment" costing us dearly.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Seriously...I'd say clients at the moment just want stock to turn up, partially, some of it, part of it but just turn up somewhere within the millennium the booking office said it would....

You're going to have to give us some more info.....name the names...

Not really sure what you are meaning in regards to my post, or it sounds like you need a different transport solution? We run nearly 2000 vehicles, about a quarter of which are dedicated to one client. Of those we are getting regular contact from customers desperate to transition, and they ARE saying they will pay more. Certain new contracts have continuous improvement clauses specifically mentioning transitioning as soon as economically possible. The difficult bit is working out how much more that should be, when the equipment is available and then the range challenges in certain contracts, especially where there is higher weights in freight and how that will impact advertised range. It is happening throughout the industry.

Sorry. I'm not going to rattle off a client list here, that would be a bit dumb wouldn't it?

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by tweeked

We run nearly 2000 vehicles, about a quarter of which are dedicated to one client.

[Citroënbender]

It’s funny, if you watch dash cam compilations you’d probably have other ideas about which haulage fleet is the largest. ;-)

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It’s funny, if you watch dash cam compilations you’d probably have other ideas about which haulage fleet is the largest. ;-)

Even that is tricky. There are some very surprising ones, especially now that in the sub-contractor space signage is too problematic with the employee deeming tests. There are a number in the 1500 - 2500 vehicle space with just about 0 signage that very few would hear about.

[kevino]

Don’t fox about.
Talking about…
Have a zillion vw transporter vans on one contract up to 300000kms place
Waiting for the right electric van

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Sprintey. Not at the speeds Franco would want to drive it at.


Franco, maybe but there's more to Victoria than Melb. an example.....Delivery trucks running out of Shepparton doing the long circuit. East toward Wang (120km) out to Bright (130km) some up the mountains to Falls or Hotham (25km uphill) then over to Wodonga via Myrtleford or via Tallangatta (160-200km) back to base and all this at 100km/h everyday. (How much of this would be regen braking I couldn't tell you.)
The battery packs would be getting a real workout.

Yeah they could tranfer to local EV trucks in each town, which would mean another storage depot but do you think clients will want to pay double and wait twice as long for their goods. There's already, just this forum punters complaining about long waits for goods.

I can see this whole feeling good fuzzy EV "experiment" costing us dearly.

Out of 6.7 million Victorians, over 5 million of them live in Metropolitan Melbourne.

While your examples are valid cases where EVs aren't suitable, they're not representative of where most of the door to door last mile delivery is going to happen where EVs are suitable.

I had 7200 customers on the books and I was spending $30,000/month on freight - $500/month of that $30,000 was customers outside of metropolitan Melbourne.

No one is forcing you to go to EVs, if you have those runs, then buy diesel trucks.

But the examples you've thrown up are like the people who rag on EVs because they can't 'tow your boat from Melbourne to Alice Springs'.

Dunno many people who tow boats from Melbourne to Alice Springs but I know a lot of people who have 5-30km commutes to and from work

My $30,000/month is small talk compared to others using freight services but I had customers spending 7 figures with me, if they turn around and say 'We won't buy off you because you aren't using sustainable freight providers' then it forces me to take my $30,000/month to someone who has an EV delivery fleet.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Not really sure what you are meaning in regards to my post, or it sounds like you need a different transport solution? We run nearly 2000 vehicles, about a quarter of which are dedicated to one client. Of those we are getting regular contact from customers desperate to transition, and they ARE saying they will pay more. Certain new contracts have continuous improvement clauses specifically mentioning transitioning as soon as economically possible. The difficult bit is working out how much more that should be, when the equipment is available and then the range challenges in certain contracts, especially where there is higher weights in freight and how that will impact advertised range. It is happening throughout the industry.

Sorry. I'm not going to rattle off a client list here, that would be a bit dumb wouldn't it?

I didn't really expect you to name anyone...however I'm assuming you work in a corporate environment as you've indicated and for large logistics companies/clients some of which are virtue signalling to "stay in the game".... My situation is different, in the manufacturing game full time since I left uni in 1987 and a family business since the 1950's where we started literally on the back of a Raleigh push bike. We deal with end customers mostly although my two biggest clients are in the mulit-Billion dollar turnover sphere...so it's very diverse from corporate to a family at home direct. Small businesses usually can't afford/won't spend $100,000 for a delivery van when you can buy the same one for $40-50K unless a very specific need can justify it including a high profit or very high volume situation and if you need 3 or four...

Continuous improvement clauses are great until the supplier can't survive and almost always it's a large corporate making those demands..my clients don't enter into multi-page supply deals, they don't ask what vehicles we run, they just want the product to be the same consistent high-quality every time and be delivered almost always the next day even when they've ordered 1:30am the same morning...

Then again being a manufacturer in Australia is becoming more unique every year.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I didn't really expect you to name anyone...however I'm assuming you work in a corporate environment as you've indicated and for large logistics companies/clients some of which are virtue signalling to "stay in the game".... My situation is different, in the manufacturing game full time since I left uni in 1987 and a family business since the 1950's where we started literally on the back of a Raleigh push bike. We deal with end customers mostly although my two biggest clients are in the mulit-Billion dollar turnover sphere...so it's very diverse from corporate to a family at home direct. Small businesses usually can't afford/won't spend $100,000 for a delivery van when you can buy the same one for $40-50K unless a very specific need can justify it including a high profit or very high volume situation and if you need 3 or four...

Continuous improvement clauses are great until the supplier can't survive and almost always it's a large corporate making those demands..my clients don't enter into multi-page supply deals, they don't ask what vehicles we run, they just want the product to be the same consistent high-quality every time and be delivered almost always the next day even when they've ordered 1:30am the same morning...

Then again being a manufacturer in Australia is becoming more unique every year.

Correct, we are taking about businesses that spend over 5 million nationally on last mile deliveries. They are not looking at transferring their whole spend into electric. But EVERY one of these want a flagship vehicle, so they can post an picture on their socials. You can already see that with a swedish furniture mob and their supplier (not us!!!) The reality is that it is not cost effective yet, and probably wont be for 5 years at least.

So businesses will spend these ludicrous amounts on the first few vehicles to present a misleading picture of what is happening overall.

[kypez]

Once you get past the sticker shock (which I think is way too much), at current fuel prices especially for Diesel, most companies will be able to claw back the cost of the vehicle on the operating costs.

Typically, they won't be charging from 0-100% daily so the 11 hours to charge is not indicative of real world. That said, if someone was doing that, that is fine overnight as well. Most businesses would setup for 3 phase charging if they were going down this route anyway so would reduce charge times significantly.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

if they turn around and say 'We won't buy off you because you aren't using sustainable freight providers' then it forces me to take my $30,000/month to someone who has an EV delivery fleet.

6.7 Victorians and 5 million Melbernians, thank F**k.
Me thinks this is to satisfy big company green credential statements in the future. Just another form of buying your way to zero emissions....read carbon credits for big business.
You know the "we will be carbon neutral by (insert date here)"

I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of small to medium sized delivery trucks on country roads in Victoria.

[Sprintey]

Rokwiz, this kind of essential transport for us 1.7million not in Melbourne (still a big number, bigger distances) is surely where hydrogen can replace the diesel if CO2 is to be taken out of the picture.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Rokwiz, this kind of essential transport for us 1.7million not in Melbourne (still a big number, bigger distances) is surely where hydrogen can replace the diesel if CO2 is to be taken out of the picture.

I'd expect heavy haulage to switch to Hydrogen as well in the future. Makes sense for them. Could you imagine an EV Road Train with todays technology?!

Or they can finally connect rail better and reduce the need for trucks all together but I don't see that happening any time soon. And for the last mile linkage.