Wanted: Property Advice Pls

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Hey all, as the title says I'm after some advice on a property matter. Now before I get into the details of the issue, please, I'm not after people's opinions or relaying of someone else's story. I'm after specific advice from someone in the property game or who has first-hand experience. Any advice given here will be validated by a solicitor/real estate agent.

I'm interested in purchasing a property. This property would be an investment. The problem is that the property is currently tenanted by someone that I would not like to keep as a tenant.

If I were to purchase the property, do I have the right, as the new landlord, to be able to end the lease on the current arrangement and select my own, new tenant?

I'm only interested in this property if I can do the above, otherwise I'm not interested. Hence, I need to know the answer before I pursue this any further.

Appreciate the advice, pls.

[danzvtil]

I've done all this before.
You can make an offer on the house subject to it being vacant possession on settlement date. It will then be up to to vendor to ask the tenant to vacate, they may offer the tenant some incentive to move before their lease on the property is up.BUT if the tenant does not agree, they cannot be forced to go before time.
I once bought a house with a tenant who had 2 months to go that I was going to move into. I agreed to let the tenant remain until end of lease, but I lowered my offer to take into consideration my messing around/possible capital gains liability on what will be a principle place of residence and to cover the risk that said tenant may turn out to be the Manson family.
Dunno what the current situation is regarding this tho.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

I've done all this before.
You can make an offer on the house subject to it being vacant possession on settlement date. It will then be up to to vendor to ask the tenant to vacate, they may offer the tenant some incentive to move before their lease on the property is up.BUT if the tenant does not agree, they cannot be forced to go before time.
I once bought a house with a tenant who had 2 months to go that I was going to move into. I agreed to let the tenant remain until end of lease, but I lowered my offer to take into consideration my messing around/possible capital gains liability on what will be a principle place of residence and to cover the risk that said tenant may turn out to be the Manson family.
Dunno what the current situation is regarding this tho.

Cool. Thanks for the quick reply, danzvtil.

If I knew that the current tenant was undertaking activity that would breach their lease, would I be able to present that evidence and use it as means of changing the tenant over? In this case, I presume that I would need to have appropriate evidence.

What about the case where the current lease is through a different real estate agent to the one I would want to deal with? Does the lease carry over to the new real estate agent or do I have to deal with the existing agent until such time as that lease has expired. There is no way in hell I'd deal with the current one.

Sorry for the q's; I should probably do some research on line before I come on here and ask these!

[Pepscobra]

Danzvtil has answered your situation perfectly.

[b0son]

The agents agreement is with the existing owner. If the property changes hands, they'll try to get you to sign a new agreement for the balance of the existing lease, but you can find another agent if you wish.

As far as getting the existing tenant out, what are they doing exactly? Keeping a pet? Running a meth lab? Are you trying to get the existing owner to do the dirty work for you?

[cheap]

How long does the tenant have on the lease? If they have 30 days left, make the contract settlement 45 days and conditional upon the property being vacant, clean, neat tidy, with no damage. Be specific, carets cleaned, floors cleaned, bathrooms clean...

Have a comprehensive building inspection done pre tenant leaving and post tenant leaving, make sure you tell the inspector to look for all items no matter how minor. Any costs to make good to be the sellers responsibility or deducted from the contracted price.

Now this is important, once they've vacated change all the locks.

Let the seller and the agent sort it out. For all you know the tenant may not a have much of a bond and could abscond leaving the place wrecked. BTW Tenant laws are a joke and real estate agents can not be trusted to manage tenants.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

For obvious reasons, I can't go into a lot of detail here, suffice to say that there is a house not far from us where the tenants are causing us (and some of the others in the neighbourhood) some grief.

We have tried talking to the real estate agent and owner of the house to get the tenant changed. Without success. In fact, if anything, they are digging their heels in.

And going to the police or the council (as we have successfully done previously with another neighbour causing grief to the neighbourhood) is not really an option in this case. Again, I can;t go into details here as to why.

So, one option to consider is to purchase the place and move the tenant on.

Its a very sticky situation, and I'm just considering my options at this point in terms of what we can do to minimise any risk to my family.

[cheap]

^ In that case, you're not in a position to achieve a good outcome.

Maybe a call to Mike Gatto...

[b0son]

If neither the agent nor owner are interested, it sounds like its not worth purchasing. Knowing your desperation, the owner will almost certainly gouge you for $$$.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by b0son

If neither the agent nor owner are interested, it sounds like its not worth purchasing. Knowing your desperation, the owner will almost certainly gouge you for $$$.

Fully expect that to be the case. However, if it buys me and my family some peace, then it may be a cost I'd be prepared to bare.

PS. There is a financial incentive, for both the landlord and real estate agent, to have the current tenant in their premises. I would expect I would have to make them a generous offer to cover that additional income.

[Iggle Piggle]

Is this grow-house meth-lab brothel house actually listed for sale, or are you hoping to make the current owner an offer they cannot refuse?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Is this grow-house meth-lab brothel house actually listed for sale, or are you hoping to make the current owner an offer they cannot refuse?

The latter. Bearing in mind that I am only considering my options at the moment and there would have to be a lot of things that fell into place for this particular idea to work. But I needed to start somewhere, hence my questions.

[auxr]

If the circumstances are this bad, have you considered the option of moving elsewhere.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by auxr

If the circumstances are this bad, have you considered the option of moving elsewhere.

Yes, that is another option we are considering.

Having said that, we really like the house we have and where it is located (close to both sets of parents who are all starting to get on a bit now, so being close by is a bonus). The other issue is that we probably won't get as much as we should for our place because of the tenant referred to earlier.

Again, I'm not ruling out any reasonable option and am just weighing them up at the moment.

[auxr]

Considering the initial outlay for a second property, it may be substantially more than the depreciation factor of your current home.

Only you will know the current situation - good luck with the decision.

[Iggle Piggle]

Yeah, good luck mate - hope it works out either way.

We built in a new estate back in 2003 and were surrounded by other owner/occupiers that took pride in their properites and were considerate of others. Back in 2010 the people behind us sold up and property was purchased by interstate investor - we then had a year with family of scrotes living there and we seriously considered selling up - thankfully they moved on (or were moved on) at the end of their lease and the next family in have been awesome.

Hope the same happens for you - they must really suck, and you must really be attached to your current, if you are looking at buying the place to move them on. Seriously hope whatever it is they are doing to cause you and your neighbours grief will ultimately see them out on their ****.

I know you said not an option earlier, but definitely 100% nothing can be done through proper legal channels - council, cops or landlord (actual owner, not agent)?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I'd really like to share with you the stuff we have been putting up with, but if there is even a skerrick of a chance the tenant reads it here, then there will be consequences.

We tried pleading to the rental agent, with no success. They actually had the gall to tell my wife, to her face, that they were getting kickbacks out of this arrangement and that they did not care what impact it had on anyone else around the rental property. Unfortunately, I think the rental agent is actually sympathetic to the tenant.

We then tried pleading to the real estate principal, trying to touch a vein with the impact it has had with our child, hoping that they, as a parent themselves, would have some empathy. All to no avail. They actually lied to our face about what they knew and would do about it.

As a last resort, we even did some detective work and worked out who the landlord is. We then wrote them a letter, again hoping that we'd be able to get an empathetic ear. All we got was a phone call from the estate agent on their behalf telling us that the landlord was unhappy that we had invaded their privacy.

The police and council are an option, but again, if the tenant finds out who has instigated any action, it would most likely come back to bite us. The police are already aware of the tenant and most of their actions. Unfortunately, they are only interested in the bigger stuff that they can't do anything about at the moment. The other bits, whilst illegal, appear to not be of concern to them just yet.

The council may be an option, but, from previous experience, it is a time-consuming process and one that involves commitment from most, if not all, the neighbours. And I'm not sure that would happen as some of them may be even more intimidated than we are.

With respect to an earlier question regarding the lease period, as you can see from above, there is no way we would approach the agent to find that out. Nor do I think they would tell us, given our history.

With respect to buying the property, I looked at it as a win:win situation; I could move the tenant on and pick myself up a decent investment property at the same time. Albeit one that may not be as profitable as it would otherwise be given that I may need to pay a little bit more to purchased it in the first place.

Anyway, no matter what happens, life will go on and we'll come out of this stronger, more knowledgeable people. Even if that is just an insight as to how the other half live.

Cheers.

[b0son]

Another option is to make the house uninhabitable.... one can concoct a variety of foul-smelling liquids that, if placed judiciously, will make remaining there a non-option.

[ronwest]

Originally Posted by b0son

Another option is to make the house uninhabitable.... one can concoct a variety of foul-smelling liquids that, if placed judiciously, will make remaining there a non-option.

Whilst that is true the problem is that the OP is known to the owners, etc.

I don't have any issue with an anonymous note followed by anonymous consequences if things don't improve but disputes escalate very quickly if everyone knows who everyone else is.

[Vesper Martini]

Its a tricky one Phsyco, I feel for you.
From what I've read I think you might struggle getting them to sell, if the owners don't want to be contacted.

It sounds like owner, landlords and tenants. only care about themselves and their own position, which unfortunately is not surprising these days.

So IMO you need to dangle a carrot to one of them to get a resolution, your on the right track with buying the house hopefully you can find a way to make it happen.

In the interim I found this also:
https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find...ith-neighbours

If a dispute with a neighbour makes you fear for your safety

If a dispute with a neighbour escalates and you fear for your safety there are laws to protect you. You can get a personal safety intervention order if:
•you have been assaulted, harassed or threatened
•your property is damaged.

What you can do

You can apply for a personal safety intervention order at any Magistrates’ Court in Victoria. However, if you have a non-violent dispute, the court will encourage you to try mediation. For more information about how to apply see Personal safety intervention orders.

[Mercury Bullet]

I would be contacting a lawyer.

Then I'd be considering a camera at the front door if you're worried.

Feel for you mate.
Best wishes.

[sr71]

Just an idea:
Make an offer of $10k (or less) if they leave the street. Do it behind a Lawyer, and let them think it's a group effort from other owners in the street. And write into the contract, not allowed to move into same suburb.
A big hit to the bank account for sure. But less than what the owner is going to add to the sale price, if you are asking to buy the property.
Invest elsewhere, and make the money back in that venture.
Good luck

[MDS69]

If contacting the owner is an issue due to previous history then you might be able to engage a third party like a buyers agent or similar to act on your behalf and keeping you anonymous. The only other options I have are illegal in forcing the tenants out by making the house uninhabitable but until someone is in your shoes we have no idea really. Good luck.

[.:4:.]

When I bought my house I had no interactions what so ever with the sellers. Everything was through the agent. I never even knew the names of the sellers. Dunno if that's normal or not but it was a relitively easy process. Even negotiating the price was done with the agent on the phone to the sellers. The house was tenanted but the tenant was given sufficient notice to vacate for the sale to go through with a 4 week settlement.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by .:4:.

I never even knew the names of the sellers.

It's on the first page of the sale contract.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by b0son

It's on the first page of the sale contract.

I know I could find it if I wanted to, but that wasn't a part of the paperwork I was going to spend any time thinking about.

[danzvtil]

Your best bet is to make an unsolicited offer thru the managing agent, but ultimately you can't buy what's not for sale.
The owner doesn't want to move these tenants on because it will cost them money (approximately 2.2weeks rent plus advertising fees plus any refurbishment costs), you could try to offer via the agent some cash to cover that cost.
But I sympathize, our system allows disfunctional members of society to harass and spill over onto other people in the neighbourhood.

[creative]

Read up on the tenancy act , as I am sure there will be many breaches within it ( division 5 section 59 looks like a good place to start) . Take the agents to Vcat and get a tribunal ruling.

There are things in place to help with this which doesnt involve buying a house to move people on.

If it was NSW I could advise you better but I am not up on Vic tenancy acts etc.

[b0son]

Can a non-LL do that to a tenant they have no commercial relationship with?

[nuthin' fancy]

Tough situation.

If you purchase subject to vacant possession, make sure you understand the implications of not settling.

It is a tricky legal situation to withhold funds at settlement time. Often, you become obligated to settle, but with funds held in trust to resolve the situation.