Engine Conversion

Bucknaked · 24-03-2006, 10:22 PM

Before we start, no this is not what i am considering doing to the car now. But out of curiosity, in case I decide to waste some cash, how hard is it to transplant the 5.6 into my XR. Is it like a straight swap, or are there things like engine mount loactions and other things to consider when taking on a conversion like this? ECU is the same as well as the wiring? The car would need to be engineered, but would it need EPA tests? I know it is an expensive thing to do, and cheaper to buy an 8 and just transplant stuff over, but where would the challenge be in that. Anyway, I am just curious on the steps involved.

Mark351 · 24-03-2006, 10:35 PM

You'd need the V8 K-frame/mounts. I think you might be able to flash a V8 program into your ECU? Not sure it'd need engineering if you simply upgraded to T-Series spec (brakes, etc)?

Bucknaked · 24-03-2006, 10:37 PM

I have the premium brakes, so that would be ok. K-Frame, that sounds like a big job. I'm guessing a bit of cutting and welding.

EFFalcon · 24-03-2006, 10:56 PM

should be pretty easy.
i assume you simply mean the 5.6 stroker engine.
i'd assume the AU use the same kframe for I6/V8, as they do in eseries.
at most i'd imagine changing engine mounts.

would be a straight swap in if you got all the looms etc.
thats not to say it'll go perfectly as conversions like this can often result in you forgetting aloom or plug

i don't know if the car would need ot be engineered since you're running the upgraded brakes etc, since the engine is coming from a car that is essentially the same model, you may only need to notify the traffic authority of the change.

**FTE217** · 24-03-2006, 11:04 PM

Now your talking and I mentioned this to you before, am I reading some defishensy syndrome here lol....like on steriods but need a heart transplant ! hehe sorry Bucky can't help myself !
I think it should be pretty easy as the guys mention above plus maybe box may need some tweaking and I strongly recommend a driving course lol.....

EFFalcon · 24-03-2006, 11:12 PM

if E-Series (and i doubt it'd be any different being the same engine) is anything to go by, the gear box would need replacing anyway

Casper · 24-03-2006, 11:26 PM

I think EFFalcon has summed it up pretty well based on my limited knowledge of it. Gearbox input shafts are certainly different.
Maybe PM Chief, I know he's doing something similar to the wagon.

ClassicAU · 24-03-2006, 11:41 PM

if you were going to do it, why not just go all the way and put a BOSS motor in it? now that would be awesome!!

GlennBA · 25-03-2006, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClassicAU

if you were going to do it, why not just go all the way and put a BOSS motor in it? now that would be awesome!!

because the 5.6L is better

boss... slow..

bucky it sounds complicated, have you thought about forced induction on the existing motor?

BPXR6T · 25-03-2006, 01:52 AM

I'd give the boss a miss. The dollar factor would be a nightmare. Dropping a windsor in would be a very straight forward and relatively cheap excercise. I recently saw a complete 302W runner with computer and loom for $1500 in the trading post.

I owned an AU XR8 ute and I now own a BA XR8 ute. In a straight line the BA is a weapon but an absolute pig around corners. The AU was far superiour in handling. In saying that I should qualify the BA suspension is still stock. But maybe a tweaked windsor that you can modify cheaply will handle better than a car fitted with a boss motor. I'm guessing handling is a priority and partly the reason you bought the XR6 in the first place.

As for engineers. I know Canberra can be rough, but you shouldn't need one should you. i.e. The year model and body came out with a 5.0 and 5.6 so legally your able to swap that motor in without an engineers cert. Same chassis, same brakes, etc...

You might want to look at forced induction as an option for your six. Insurance might mean an engineers cert is required though. I admit I've been blown of the road by a super charged 4.0. I've recently bought a EF 4.0 to build a sleeper. I'm tossing up now on Turbo or blower. But it's hard to beat the sound of a super charger.

Bucknaked · 25-03-2006, 08:28 AM

It will be a stroker. I read in a thread somewhere earlier that the blocks are the same through the AU V8 range, so theres nothing stopping me from getting a 200 or a 220 and having it stroked using the same specs as the 5.6.

So the process doesn't sound as bad as other conversions. I imagine a bulk of the costs will come from the engine and the conversion and paying someone to install it and tune it. If I was going to do this, then I would take a 5.6 and box. I assume the tail shaft should be the same as well. Unichip could the tuning, or maybe the edit would be the go.

I have considered the supercharger and turbo idea for my car. I looked at a twin turbo. These seem to be expensive options. The supercharger you can do cheaply enough, but without spending a lot of money, I don't suspect there will be significant improvements. It doesn't represent value for money. And I am looking for reliability. I also think a V8 conversion would give better peice of mind. Espcially if its a fairly stock engine, then it can maintain reliability without having to strengthen parts of the engine or driveline. By doing the engine and a box from the same car, then I believe there is less stress put anywhere on the driveline. It would be all factory so to speak. The sound of the supercharger I think would drive you insane after a while. Would insurance be a problem. Well i guess then Shannons would become my new insurer.

Certainly gives me something to think about. I have plenty to consider. Maybe my best bet would be to have a chat if and when I'm ready to go with someone like Terry Pulford to get a break down on whether its worth while and what the overall costs would be. I suspect around the $10,000 for everything? What do you guys think.

I might also talk to chief as well as suggested and follow his project as it progresses

Thanks for your replies.

Mark351 · 25-03-2006, 09:35 AM

The K frame is the hunk of aluminium that's bolted into the chassis, and I was under the assumption the I6 and V8 K-frames were not the same, though I'll happily concede that I'm wrong otherwise. If you do need to swap, it should just be a bolt-on exercise.

As for the engine, would you build a 5.6 or try and source a Tickford stroker?

chief · 25-03-2006, 10:38 AM

Excellant idea Bucky.

From what I have read the K- Frame is shared between the I6 & V8. The looms, wiring and ECU need replacing. You cant just flash your I6 ECU.

In NSW (don't know acout the ACT). The car will need to be engineered for emissions, exaust loudness (dB), brakes (you have the uprated set anyway, no probs there) and in my wagon suspension (dont know about XR's, since that suspension set up is superior to a forte wagon). Also I don't like engineers because they are just rude. Long storey. But have your plan worked out on paper, spend some time working it out, before you see an engineer. They will take your money weather you car pasts or not so save yourself the hastle and plan it out. I have a 100 page book with my entire wagon project in it. Everythings planned, just need to do it.

Since you are getting the 5.6 I suspect you wont be working it and dropping it strait in. The engine itself will be realtively expensive but no work needs to be done to it. If you build the stroker, the intial cost of the V8 will be cheap, in comparison, but the money will be spent working it. So the money you save by building the stroker, you actually end up spending. The difference in cost between the two at the completion when it is installed will be minimal. More up front cost for the Tickford stroker. Build it, take your time and spend when you can / want to.

Also got to take into account things like headers, exaust, cats, air intake needs to be changes. I have been told that you can keep the accessories (power steering, air con, pulleys ect) off your six, but may need a larger alternator. $10,000 is a good idea. I don't see it going above that figure.

Saw a 5L V8 for sale on Thursday and was a Bee's d*ck away from getting it. Enquired in the morning sold in the afternoon. Came with everything except gear box. So with that money comes lowereing, rims, tyres and other goodies.

PM if you want. Also got your info re Titan Ford Day - Thank You.

sfr rob · 25-03-2006, 01:29 PM

Dwayne, your a legend... do it mate!

I wanted to do this with my AU too, but i dont have enough knowledge to do any of it!
cheers

Rob

EFFalcon · 25-03-2006, 01:33 PM

you consider the supercharger/turbo setup an 'expensive' option yet you're budgeting $10k for the job?

I'd be inclined to say $10k on a turbo or supercharger would have much better results.

alternatively, get a standard 5.0 from any AU, get everything you can needed for the conversion from that car.
(a lot cheaper then paying for a T3 setup)
then work the 302, stroke to 347, change the cam, get an edit.

Racecraft · 25-03-2006, 01:43 PM

seriously though, by the time you source the parts and pay someone to do it as Cheif said you wouldn't get much change from 10k.. Even more if you got a T'series stroker with all the good gear from factory.. That is a bucket of money and on resale you're competing against XR8's that are not worth alot of coin anyway over the six.. If the budget can stretch I'd locate a second hand SI XR8 (say 15k for a real ripper) keep all the things that make the Buckie Mobile (leather, bodykit, wheels, brakes etc) and transfer them onto your new XR8.. You'd get 80-90 percent of the purchase price back when you sold your XR6 with or without the goodies.. Then you only have to swap the gear over and stroke the motor.. You don't have to worry about sourcing parts, engineers certificates/ mod plates, or having the car off the road for an unspecified length of time..

BPXR6T · 25-03-2006, 01:49 PM

Go forced induction if you want to keep the car. A forced 4.0 is an absolute weapon if done right. You can get silent drive super chargers. They're belt driven internally instead of gear driven. You won't even notice the turbo until you hit the loud pedal. As far as doing engines, they're cheap as chips to replace. That's partly why I kept my 4.0 car so I can tinker with a blower or turbo and it won't cost me a mint.

If you desperately want that V8 rumble then buy an XR8. They can be had really cheap. I let mine go for $13,000 a year ago and it was an absolute gem. A hell of a lot less headaches than dealing with engineers. You can pull the bits of your XR6 that you want to hang onto. i.e. interior, bonnet, etc...

BPXR6T · 25-03-2006, 01:51 PM

Hmmm, you know what they say about brilliant minds racecraft. ;)

Bucknaked · 25-03-2006, 04:24 PM

I'm in the early stages of planning. So it's good to hear the positives and negatives.

I can understand where a few of you guys are coming from. In some ways it doesn't make sense for to convert a 6 to an 8. As RC said, better off to get a S1 and transfer the goodies across.

$10,000 was just a ball park figure. I'm thinking there are small things that need consideration. Being a 6, do I need new shocks and springs to accomodate the weight of the 8. I have IRS, so maybe nothing to do there. Also need to consider I guess exhausts. Could be engineering fees. I think in the ACT its about $600. Doing the conversion would need some form of RTA approval. The type of engine might change depending on costs.

So many things to consider. So I'm fielding the idea and looking at feedback.
I haven't really gone any further that what I've said here, I just wanted to put the question to you guys to get some feedback on whether this is a good idea, or a pipe dream.

It won't be anytime soon. My next addition to the car has taken me close to 15 months to decide. But I'm interested in collecting information. There are guys here that I value their information. And its good to get those who are mechanically minded offering their experience.

Don't worry, when I decide which road I'll take, I'll let you know. It will be conversion or induction. Eitherway, i will do something.

FalKeen · 25-03-2006, 05:09 PM

ok bucky ill say straight up, dont do it!

for what youll gain the whole job would be a nightmare and very expensive - look at more $15,000 i reckon

how about this - see if you can sell your car, then get Maurie's....wouldnt cost much at all

you were looking at getting the interior done anyway so do it to Bluedrivers instead which is a "clean slate" lol

thats my opinion anyway

FalKeen · 25-03-2006, 05:11 PM

oh and meteorite is much easier to maintain :Reverend:

GK · 25-03-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalKeen

ok bucky ill say straight up, dont do it!

for what youll gain the whole job would be a nightmare and very expensive - look at more $15,000 i reckon

how about this - see if you can sell your car, then get Maurie's....wouldnt cost much at all

you were looking at getting the interior done anyway so do it to Bluedrivers instead which is a "clean slate" lol

thats my opinion anyway

oh and meteorite is much easier to maintain.

Falkeen's onto something good here I reckon. Get a great well sorted car for less than the $10,000 changeover I'd reckon.

Right on too about Meteorite, awesome colour!

GK

**FTE217** · 25-03-2006, 05:34 PM

Cheez I'm starting to agree here very much as Falkeen mentions lol.....
Nah seriously mate it's a pain in the butt what you are thinking and the complications to get things sorted out would give you the pooos I know it would me.
This is why I bought the 8 in the first place.
Yer buy mine ! you know the history and transfer all your gear to it,all she needs is edit now and thats all you need for street use, much easier excercise.
Funny haven't I told you this before ?! lol.....

FalKeen · 25-03-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Funny haven't I told you this before ?! lol.....

lol i bet! :ticking:

stiddy · 25-03-2006, 05:42 PM

When you can get a the T series 5.6 stroker motor, box and loom for $4500 from FTG (I think it was that price and still for sale) and its pretty much a straight bolt in..
Why not??
As for the engineering, because its a late model engine, going into a late model falcon that was originally released with these engines, and all the polution gear from the T3 motor is also used there wont be any issues.
Have been through this all before when dad and I put in a 5L commo motor into a range rover.

I think it would be easier to swap over a motor then what it would be to swap over the bodykit, interior, get it resprayed and whatever else needs doing.. and you could sell off your existing motor, box and loom.
I say go for the V8 conversion.

Racecraft · 25-03-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

When you can get a the T series 5.6 stroker motor, box and loom for $4500 from FTG (I think it was that price and still for sale) and its pretty much a straight bolt in..
Why not??
As for the engineering, because its a late model engine, going into a late model falcon that was originally released with these engines, and all the polution gear from the T3 motor is also used there wont be any issues.
Have been through this all before when dad and I put in a 5L commo motor into a range rover.

I think it would be easier to swap over a motor then what it would be to swap over the bodykit, interior, get it resprayed and whatever else needs doing.. and you could sell off your existing motor, box and loom.
I say go for the V8 conversion.

That's not a bad price but it is the labour factor and other odds and ends that will push the bill up..
Off the top of my head,
To run the looms (if the dash has to come out which I'm sure it would) is atleast $600
New radiator $400
New PowerSteering unit, high pressure lines etc $400 and iirc the V8's run a different steering rack $400
Tailshaft?? $200
Then a decent exhaust with twin cats and headers $1000-$2000

Thats somewhere around $3000 in just parts + $4600 FTG package with no labour.. It will capp 10k easy

Bucknaked · 25-03-2006, 05:45 PM

The only way I'd take Bluedrivers car is with a trade and cash adjustment. I don't have $23,000 lying around to spend on an XR8.

**FTE217** · 25-03-2006, 05:53 PM

ONO ! Bucky I'm willing to negotiate lol....what you do is get a personal loan,transfer the gear and sell the XR6,that pays out what you owe on the i6, easy mate lol.....
Remember or nearest offer !

Bucknaked · 25-03-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

ONO ! Bucky I'm willing to negotiate lol....what you do is get a personal loan,transfer the gear and sell the XR6,that pays out what you owe on the i6, easy mate lol.....
Remember or nearest offer !

I own the XR6

:

stiddy · 25-03-2006, 06:05 PM

Bucky, how handy are you with a hammer, half a socket set, a knife, 2 screw drivers and electrical tape? lol
Yeah im not denying it wont hit 10k, Ive helped with 5 conversions so far, admittedly not on falcons, but they almost always end up over budget from something not being right, usually little gremlins.. but they still did work out cheap because we did all the labour/sorted out the problems ourselves.
But being in buckies position and having his car the way it is now, I would do the conversion rather then buy a car and swap everything over...purely because the new car he gets may not be in excellent condition his current ride is.
and honestly what are the chances of finding a black XR8 in the same kind of condition as his XR6?