Twice as Many P platers died this year than last - Power Restrictions

[AWD Chaser]

Well... to correct the first post, there are now nearly double the amount of deaths on NSW roads this year then previously quoted

source - http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=161292

Traffic Services commander Chief Superintendent John Hartley said 49 young drivers had died on NSW roads so far this year, compared to about 25 last year.

[Falcon_Phill]

The latest one was around the corner from my house, literally. Shit hey.

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by JiShWa

This gives all p platers a bad name, which is why we ahve to put up with bs laws.

Seems like the laws at the moment, besides revenue raising which i thought was bs until recently, are catered to suit the minority of morons and punish the rest of us.

I say revenue raising was bs because I believe state govts wouldn't be putting this money back into road safety like you assume they would. I could be wrong, just my assumption, but how I'm feeling at the moment.

[HOON69]

so another young person dies,ye they are on their P's
and without the full facts pl are crying foul on l/p platers

life deals you the hand your dealt,ppl die every day yet get no news coverage etc i love the media (not)

[GXL078]

It was another Commodore, enough said.

[jimmy_c]

Laws dont fix anything and are only a stop gap measure.

How about some proper driver training instead of wasting our billions of dollars of tax money on crap.

1. Driver training in yr12 at school.
2. Proper driver training and defensive driver course.
3. incorporate the computer test as well.

just some ideas. where is keep left ???

[atec77]

Originally Posted by merlin

Source

P-Platers stupidity
By Sharri Markson and Ben Johnson

September 24, 2006 12:00

MORE than half the P-plate drivers killed in NSW road accidents this year were speeding at more than 100km/h at the time.

Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) data shows 14 of the 26 P-plate drivers killed died in accidents that involved speeds above the legal limit for provisional drivers.

Highway patrol officers on the front line have confirmed that P-platers rank among the worst offenders when it comes to breaking road rules.

"I think there's a lot of overconfidence out there,'' Senior Constable Glen Duncan said as he monitored traffic at The Rocks on Friday night.

"If you're going for the biggest speeds registered, P-platers are involved. I often ask people how fast they were going, and they have no idea - and they were doing 110 in an 80 zone.

"The part that gets me about P-platers is that they're just oblivious to the road rules - and they're the ones who have had the most recent education.''

Only one 17- to 20-year-oldwas killed while driving at less than 60km/h this year.

The high death toll has led to calls for tougher P-plate laws including driver education in schools and compulsory professional driving instruction.

Opposition roads spokesman Andrew Stoner said a graphic advertising campaign would be effective in reducing fatal crashes involving P-platers.

"We've got to target driver psychology among young men,'' Mr Stoner said.

"We should have graphic advertising campaigns showing actual images of road fatalities.

"It would be shocking to watch, and we would only screen it after 8.30pm.''

Mr Stoner said it was important to change young drivers' attitudes and target testosterone-fuelled, risk-taking behaviour.

"We have been long advocating compulsory driver education in high schools,'' he said.

"There would be participation by someone who has been involved in accidents and feature the consequences of bad driver behaviour.''

Last week The Sunday Telegraph revealed that the State Government's laws to save young drivers had failed, with twice as many P-plate drivers killed this year compared with the corresponding period last year.

Since the new laws - including banning P-platers from driving high-powered cars - were introduced in July last year, there has been a 37 per cent increase in the number of 17- to 20-year-old drivers killed on NSW roads.

Other states, notably Victoria, have had significant reductions in P-plater deaths after introducing tougher laws.

In Victoria, where the minimum age for P-plate licence holders is 18, seven drivers aged 17 to 20 were killed in the first seven months of this year.

This is almost four times fewer young deaths than during the same period in NSW.

Pedestrian Council chairman Harold Scruby said that following the success in lowering the death toll in Victoria, teenagers should not be able to get their provisional licence until they turn 18.

"You can't drink until you're 18, you can't vote until you're 18 and you can't go to war before you're 18, but you can be in charge of a lethal weapon as a child,'' Mr Scruby said.

He said that after 11pm, P-platers should not be allowed to carry more than one passenger in the car.

"It gets away from the animal-pack mentality, and you're less likely to wipe out five kids at the same time.

"We should have professional driving instructors, and a requirement to fulfil a certain amount of hours with a licensed driving instructor.''

The ATSB data also shows that 85 per cent of the P-plater drivers killed this year were male.

Young drivers hold 15 per cent of licences but are involved in 36 per cent of road fatalities.

In NSW, 51 people aged between 17 and 20 have been killed during the first eight months of this year.

In the corresponding period last year, 34 P-platers were killed.



Personally I think the restriction are the right idea but need to be based on power/weight. They are also only a small step in the right direction - compulsary professional training whilst on L's should be added and more actual police on the roads instead of fixed cameras.

Discuss.

Honest point of discussion
How many can really say they were a GOOD safe and competent driver who didnt take risks within 2 years of hitting the streets
Who can say they were taught to drive well rather than pass the test ?
I have over 30 years driving (38)and over a million K , and I still make mistakes but I don't drive quite as badly as when I started , I believe learing to drive should start at high school and become part of all education then passing the test is part of the day to day routine of learning and making a good driver....
comments ?


:eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :eclipsee_ :eclipsee_

[Ford_Boy]

jishwa...you made alot of good comments. its the safe drivers that have to pay the price for the fools that crash. why do we even have to have p plates visible? what does it matter if someone has a p on their car? its all so the police can target them. if they arnt doing anything ilegal then there is no point in the person being pulled over.

accidents are still happening but deaths are greater because these restrictions are making people buy cars that wont hold up aswell as a larger car with more mass to defend itself. when you get hit at a high speed in an xcel for example. then the car is pretty much in your cabin and you are sqaushed inside. with a larger car, you atleast have a chance.

sorry atce77 but i disagree with your idea about getting your license from school experiences. if someone drops out in year nine does that mean they can never get a license. its just not practical.

[poolkeeper]

But for people that are into cars thats no fun/exciting.
Instead of getting enjoyment out of acceleration (to the speed limit I might add), its a now how fast can you go thing, how far can you step the tail out etc... Power restrictions only stop one thing acceleration, and that isnt the cause of these accidents is it?

[blue terra]

My 2 cents worth,
i'm a p plater myself..... its all well and good blamin the government but theyre not behind the wheel pushin the pedals. now dont flame me for this but parents should start looking closer to home to lay some blame. I've seen crap parent drivers teaching there kids to drive thus they learn bad procedures. i honestly believe the best thing my parents did for me whats get me a driving instructor pretty much from the get go. I did an easy 30 hours with this bloke and he taught me correct procedures and what to do. Plus i learnt manual which many really dont then as soon as they hit there greens they buy a manual and wouldnt know how to use a clutch. To me it makes sense that proper driver traing would go a long way. Hence having driving instructors. Some people dont realise that when they start theyre car the're basically starting a 1.5 ton missile that will hurt on impact.

[blue terra]

Just to go with ^^^^^ that driving home today get to a roundabout see an L plater on the other side had to give way BUT i see this kid signal at the last second signal his intention and as he goes pasts was literally on the phone with his mum totally oblivious to it. Now if he rights himself she'll be the first one to cry foul........

[nobbystang]

Not sure what night it was but the Roads Minister for NSW I think it was, was interviewed for the news and said the smartest thing ever to come out of a politicians mouth.

'Roadrules can only do so much'

I nearly fell off my chair!!!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by nobbystang

Not sure what night it was but the Roads Minister for NSW I think it was, was interviewed for the news and said the smartest thing ever to come out of a politicians mouth.

'Roadrules can only do so much'

I nearly fell off my chair!!!

Now that is pretty funny. Rather than beat around the bush they said it exactly how it is.

[TEaaron]

Originally Posted by hot xr6

No way! That would make them overconfident and want to break the road rules. Teaching them how to control the car in a dangerous situation wont save any lives. Speed cameras will save lives. Don't you know that there is a 90% reduction in fatalities at speed camera locations.

Really? where did you pull those stats from?... your ****?


Good roads and driving stop fatalities. All more speed cameras does is takes the consentration away from what's infront of you and more consentration on the speedo to make sure you don't get a fine.

Speed cameras raise revenue, not save lifes.

If they really wanted to try get people to stop "hoon behaviour" they'd show the mangeled splatted bodies of what happends to you when you crash.

[TEaaron]

I'm 17 and still on L plates and I'm tought how to handle the car as well as learn the road rules, I know the limitations of my car and I'm tought how to regain control if somthing goes wrong.

And that's what will stop me from killing my self on my P's, if some one is going to "hoon" they'll do it in no matter what car they're in why not teach them how to handle the car instead of wait until they think they're god and take out a a bunch of innocent lifes because of being inexpiranced?

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by XDaaron

I'm 17 and still on L plates and I'm tought how to handle the car as well as learn the road rules, I know the limitations of my car and I'm tought how to regain control if somthing goes wrong.

And that's what will stop me from killing my self on my P's, if some one is going to "hoon" they'll do it in no matter what car they're in why not teach them how to handle the car instead of wait until they think they're god and take out a a bunch of innocent lifes because of being inexpiranced?

Taught ......... experienced...... Still learning......... Seriously, this is good to hear. Driving skills will save your life, test passing skills are useless.

[4Vman]

Mature, cautious and responsible driving behaviour in a car will save your life, driver skills education and defensive driving courses wont do squat if all it does is give the driver an over inflated sence of ability and they still drives like a moron.
A responsible and mature attitude to driving means you DONT put yourself in a position to get youself into trouble and need above average "defensive driver" skills to get yourself out of trouble in the first place.

[MITCHAY]

Well I'm still alive : Glad I'm off my Ps. It's so interesting how different the authorities are around a turbo car without the P plates.

[TEaaron]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mature, cautious and responsible driving behaviour in a car will save your life, driver skills education and defensive driving courses wont do squat if all it does is give the driver an over inflated sence of ability and they still drives like a moron.
A responsible and mature attitude to driving means you DONT put yourself in a position to get youself into trouble and need above average "defensive driver" skills to get yourself out of trouble in the first place.

So what you're saying is that if you ever get into any kind situation where some idiot loses control of his VN and slides over to the wrong side of the road coming straight towards you and instead of knowing how to get out of the situation you hesitate and die it's your fault?

There's more to staying safe than being mature and following the road rules.

[JamesR]

im on my P's, had my first accident the other day.
came around a corner a bit quick, back end slid out, tried to save it, over corrected and went offroad and into a ditch.
i have no idea what happened after loosing the back, cant remember.
but i think i jumped on brakes, and thats when it most likely went all bad.

i think a lot of factors are the reason for the accident, poor road, stuffed rear shocks, too much speed, and no idea on how to control a car.

now my cars in the driveway, undrivable.

i believe defensive driving could help.

but the only way alot of people learn is from their mistakes.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by JamesR

im on my P's, had my first accident the other day.
came around a corner a bit quick, back end slid out, tried to save it, over corrected and went offroad and into a ditch.
i have no idea what happened after loosing the back, cant remember.
but i think i jumped on brakes, and thats when it most likely went all bad.

i think a lot of factors are the reason for the accident, poor road, stuffed rear shocks, too much speed, and no idea on how to control a car.

now my cars in the driveway, undrivable.

i believe defensive driving could help.

but the only way alot of people learn is from their mistakes.

Were you hooning though or a bit over zealous with your driving?

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by JamesR

im on my P's, had my first accident the other day.
came around a corner a bit quick, back end slid out, tried to save it, over corrected and went offroad and into a ditch.
i have no idea what happened after loosing the back, cant remember.
but i think i jumped on brakes, and thats when it most likely went all bad.

i think a lot of factors are the reason for the accident, poor road, stuffed rear shocks, too much speed, and no idea on how to control a car.

now my cars in the driveway, undrivable.

i believe defensive driving could help.

but the only way alot of people learn is from their mistakes.

The most valuable lesson you learnt here is driving to conditions. If you lost the rear end you were probably going a little more than a bit fast. And you probably got on the throttle a little early. Could be lots of other variables beyond your control. And your car being bent is a small price to pay. Better that than worrying about a young kid in intensive care after you clobbered him/her during your little off.
This not a critisism of your driving. But you can probably see how fast things can happen.

Cheers.

[Ives]

Originally Posted by JamesR

but the only way alot of people learn is from their mistakes.

It's sad though how some people just never learn. :/

I hope everything's sorting out for you.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Were you hooning though or a bit over zealous with your driving?

hard to say really... not so much hooning.
slowed down too late, accelerated too early.
it was a sharp corner, and shitty road.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Mature, cautious and responsible driving behaviour in a car will save your life, driver skills education and defensive driving courses wont do squat if all it does is give the driver an over inflated sence of ability and they still drives like a moron.
A responsible and mature attitude to driving means you DONT put yourself in a position to get youself into trouble and need above average "defensive driver" skills to get yourself out of trouble in the first place.

Agree with your post, and for a few other reasons besides.
Years ago, driver education programs typically scared the ever loving proverbial out of kids to the point that they would drive responsibly. These days, generation Y (Y for "why not me now?") are so over easily bored and allegedly "over" everything that the driving courses are seen now as licence to perform loutish behaviour.
A product of environment (or lack thereof in the new multi storey, non backyarded, over compensated, self centred and self absorbed Sydney) has meant that the kids of today have so many more distractions than ever before, and seem incapable of doing something so relatively boring as driving.
I guess what I'm alluding to is, that same drive amongst the generation Y group (those born after 1980) that has seen many a teenager go to their boss and tell him to vacate their position so they can earn boss money (even though they have no experience) is the same driving force that allows youth to think that they are better than all of the other drivers out there; we're all driving slowly because we are not as skillful.

By the way, this is not my opinion alone, Simon Finlay from the Finlay advanced driving school believes that this is the worst generation in terms of attitude he has ever seen on his courses.


One more thing, the moron who believes speed cameras save lives has an IQ of 2. They should be careful these 2 points don't rub together and start a fire. If they were beyond a sub-intelligent life form they would realise that all around the world where speed cameras have been abolished, accident and death rates have fallen dramatically.
Speed cameras do nothing but take your attention away from the road and put it firmly onto your speedo.
Any person who is not bound by ignorance whom has driven on a road with a speed camera would have seen the masses of brake lights before the camera, and then the acceleration after.
Speed cameras are like Safety cars on race day. Once there out of the way we're all back to green flag racing.

Anyway, my 2.2 cents (GST included)

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

The most valuable lesson you learnt here is driving to conditions. If you lost the rear end you were probably going a little more than a bit fast. And you probably got on the throttle a little early. Could be lots of other variables beyond your control. And your car being bent is a small price to pay. Better that than worrying about a young kid in intensive care after you clobbered him/her during your little off.
This not a critisism of your driving. But you can probably see how fast things can happen.

Cheers.

What amazes me is less people seem to have a feel for what their equipment is doing in the sense of the limits of adhesion in the cars tyres, brakes in a given situation, lateral movement etc. As we have all at one point been close to the limit in a car itself, we can recognise where the car is going to fail first.

Outback, as a pilot you know the limitations of your equipment, to the point where it almost becomes instinctual; it's hard to think of others not knowing it.
I got my pilots licence before my P plates and I gotta say, it really opened my eyes up. Kids today don't get that kind of exposure anymore I guess.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XDaaron

So what you're saying is that if you ever get into any kind situation where some idiot loses control of his VN and slides over to the wrong side of the road coming straight towards you and instead of knowing how to get out of the situation you hesitate and die it's your fault?

There's more to staying safe than being mature and following the road rules.

Nope, that's way off track, were talking about "at fault" deaths here i.e: young drivers dieing as a result of irresponsible driving behaviour.
Its attitude to driving that needs to change over and above driver skills.

There seems to be a flavour amongst some posts that its ok to drive like a moron, as long as you teach the drivers how to control the car to avoid an accident....

[ltd]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Nope, that's way off track, were talking about "at fault" deaths here i.e: young drivers dieing as a result of irresponsible driving behaviour.
Its attitude to driving that needs to change over and above driver skills.

There seems to be a flavour amongst some posts that its ok to drive like a moron, as long as you teach the drivers how to control the car to avoid an accident....

Agreed, exactly, here here.
Adding to what 4V has said and as I said in my previous post, advanced driver training is being seen by some as almost akin to getting a super licence; where the driver thinks he is better than everyone else and can therefore push the limits. This has been found to be proven at driver training schools, it's more of a generational thing and is only compelled by the cars available today.
Furthermore, precipitous circumstances on the road such as a wet patch, animal, entering car or even a pothole cannot be foreseen by even the best and can therefore even catch out the michael schumachers of this world. That's why we have race tracks, because they can remove the common dangers inherent to road racing.

[nobbystang]

Originally Posted by JamesR

hard to say really... not so much hooning.
slowed down too late, accelerated too early.
it was a sharp corner, and shitty road.

Weren't driving an AU XR8 somewhere near Brisvegas where you?????????

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by nobbystang

Weren't driving an AU XR8 somewhere near Brisvegas where you?????????

nahhhhhhhhhhh
im in vic.