Cricket - All time Australian team

28-02-2007, 09:07 AM

Just saw this:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/w...338623244.html

Quote:

Waugh leads one-day wonders

Trevor Marshallsea
February 28, 2007

HE might have an inferior win-loss record, but Steve Waugh last night pipped Ricky Ponting for the honorary title of captain of Australia's greatest one-day international team.

Named at a function to farewell Australia's World Cup side, the all-time Australian 12 contained few surprises. The presence of five current players - Ponting, Adam Gilchrist, Andrew Symonds, Brett Lee and Glenn McGrath - reflected not only the greater number of one-dayers played in the modern era compared to the past, but also Australia's until-recently breathtaking form.

The great Greg Chappell only gained a place as 12th man, and there was no room for Allan Border, David Boon, Craig McDermott or Simon O'Donnell, who all helped Australia to its first World Cup title in 1987. The only two members of that side to make the cut were Dean Jones and Waugh, who was also a slightly controversial choice as captain.

Waugh, whose appearances in 325 one-dayers remain an Australian record, led Australia in 106 matches for 67 victories - a win rate of 63 per cent. Ponting, named vice-captain last night, has a win rate of 76 per cent, with 105 successes from 138 matches.

Both leaders boast a World Cup to their credit. Perhaps some judges felt the 1999 triumph, when Waugh helped lift Australia to victory after a shabby start to the tournament, was more meritorious than the undefeated romp through the 2003 edition by a Ponting-led side at the height of its game.

Gilchrist received the most votes from 163 voters with 110, one more than Shane Warne and McGrath. Ponting received 107 votes ahead of Mark Waugh on 101, with Steve Waugh's election as captain coming despite his relatively low tally of 72 votes.

Steve Waugh said being named in the XII was "fantastic". "I feel privileged to be a part of this," he said. "A lot of guys have played one-day cricket for Australia so it's great to just get in the side."

Ponting said it was "a great thrill" to be named No.3 batsman in the honorary team.

The 163 men who have played ODIs for Australia were the "selectors", and were honoured at last night's function at Luna Park.

Not surprisingly, the top three spots were taken by Australia's top three ODI run-scorers, with Gilchrist and Mark Waugh named as openers, positions they filled in the 1999 World Cup. Ponting, this country's top run-scorer, was named in his usual No.3 spot.

The No.4 spot went to folk hero Jones, Australia's seventh-highest run-scorer, who averaged a strong 44 from 164 matches. Steve Waugh and Michael Bevan - fourth and fifth on the Australian run-scorers list - were named in their customary batting positions of five and six.

Symonds was a clear-cut choice as the squad's only genuine all-rounder.

Warne, Australia's second-highest ODI wicket-taker, was an automatic selection despite his retirement from that form of the game in 2003. So was the only man above him on the wicket-taking list, McGrath, who heads to the World Cup with 354 wickets at just 22.59 apiece. Third-placed Lee, who has 267 victims from 150 matches, gained selection despite competition from the likes of McDermott, who remains fourth on the Australian list with 203 wickets from 138 matches.

Dennis Lillee was also regarded by many as an automatic choice, despite having played only 63 ODIs for Australia.

Chappell could not be squeezed in despite a superior average - 40.18 - to the Waughs and Gilchrist, who all boast better strike rates.

The function also honoured the 20th anniversary of Australia's 1987 World Cup win.

ALL-TIME AUSTRALIAN TEAM

Adam Gilchrist, Mark Waugh, Ricky Ponting, Dean Jones, Steve Waugh, Michael Bevan, Andrew Symonds, Shane Warne, Brett Lee, Dennis Lillee, Glenn McGrath, Greg Chappell (12th man).

A few notable ommissions, namely Allen Border, which I thought would be an obvious choice.
Also controversial was the choice of Steve Waugh as captain.

So, what are your thoughts? What would you change if you could pick an all time Aussie team??

pb02 · 28-02-2007, 09:22 AM

Personally I would have picked McDermott over Brett Lee, regarding AB and Steve, that's a very tough choice! Both amazing players and captains on and off the field.

I think the problem with these things is that your just trying to cram too much talent into a team so your always going to have problems.

merlin · 28-02-2007, 09:44 AM

Dont' think Brett Lee or Steve Waugh should have been picked. Steve yes if it was "all-rounder Steve" but for the later part of his career he couldn't bowl, only bat (and his batting style dosnt really suit one-dayers).

I reckon Matthew Hayden to replace Steve Waugh and McDermott for Lee.

uranium_death · 28-02-2007, 03:25 PM

I would pick McDermott over Brett Lee. Brett Lee is too erratic and spasmodic for mine.

Steve Waugh deserves to be there. One Day Cricket was a lot more even back in 1999, with South Africa possibly being the best team. Pity they pooed their knickers in the semis.

In 2003, although we were undefeated, there really was no competition. South Africa weren't as good as their 1999 model. India might have won had they batted first, but Australia could still have caught them. Australia batting first killed India's chances.

Steve Waugh created the Australia dynasty. Ponting simply rode the wave of good fortune. However, he's still been a good captain. But Waugh has been through harder times of Australian cricket and come out on top. I think he deserves it.

Rodp · 28-02-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb02

Personally I would have picked McDermott over Brett Lee, regarding AB and Steve, that's a very tough choice! Both amazing players and captains on and off the field.

Romantic memories of McDermott?

Lee in an ODI is one of the best quicks around right now. Tests, I'd agree with McDermott over him. Lee has a better strike rate and average than McDermott with the ball in ODI, and absolutely slaughters him with the bat. Modern day ODI, you've got to bat pretty low down the order.

AB vs SRW, really tough choice. So tough that I don't think it would matter much in the scheme of things which one took the field.

Bevan? Today's best 12, *maybe*. Give it a few more years and I think you'll find his achievements will be eclipsed by Hussey and will undoubtedly take his place. I always felt Bevan took too long to get going and left a run chase too long and seemed to play for a not out score. There was one innings I saw him play in a losing side for the World XI that would be one of the best ODI innings I've ever seen though.

Before reading the list I was wondering whether they would include Deano, obviously no ex-selectors helped compile that list. :P

uranium_death · 28-02-2007, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Romantic memories of McDermott?

Lee in an ODI is one of the best quicks around right now. Tests, I'd agree with McDermott over him. Lee has a better strike rate and average than McDermott with the ball in ODI, and absolutely slaughters him with the bat. Modern day ODI, you've got to bat pretty low down the order.

AB vs SRW, really tough choice. So tough that I don't think it would matter much in the scheme of things which one took the field.

Bevan? Today's best 12, *maybe*. Give it a few more years and I think you'll find his achievements will be eclipsed by Hussey and will undoubtedly take his place. I always felt Bevan took too long to get going and left a run chase too long and seemed to play for a not out score. There was one innings I saw him play in a losing side for the World XI that would be one of the best ODI innings I've ever seen though.

Before reading the list I was wondering whether they would include Deano, obviously no ex-selectors helped compile that list. :P

Michael Hussey will definitely take over Bevan. He's been fantastsic and for somebody who just got into the team, he plays a very solid game and the maturity he displays is beyond his experience. I think he'll be a shining light in what may soon be a difficult period in Australian cricket.

pb02 · 28-02-2007, 04:03 PM

As UD said Lee can be erratic and spasmodic at times. I've seen him destroy teams, but I've seen him bowl no balls and wides better than anyone!!! He also has a tendency to fold under pressure and bowls a bit wild to tail enders. But you do make a good point regarding batting.

Deano was robbed late in his career by selectors. He was one of the first that came to mind for me too before reading the list.

Rodp · 28-02-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb02

As UD said Lee can be erratic and spasmodic at times. I've seen him destroy teams, but I've seen him bowl no balls and wides better than anyone!!! He also has a tendency to fold under pressure and bowls a bit wild to tail enders. But you do make a good point regarding batting.

Yes his average with the ball is 22 where McDermott is 26ish. I believe his strike rate is also a good 10 balls ahead. That's a pretty significant difference.

Erratic, absolutely but it's not punished as much in ODI as it is in tests. I question his selection in tests but I absolutely welcome his selection in ODI. He seems to be able to swing the white ball better than the red and batsmen flashing at his rubbish tend to rubbish it to a fieldsman. A W is a W to me.

He's not a death bowler, I agree. He terrorises the top order (who play him like a 2nd grader in tests) McGrath is the finisher. Looks like Clark is a suitable replacement and if he's 3/4 of a McGrath he's a godsend.

I don't see the Aus team being as dominant in the near future. They can win the WC but if they make it that far, their opponent is equally as likely to win.

AC/DC · 28-02-2007, 07:03 PM

Is it april 1 ? ? ? April fools that Brett Lee is in this team, , but Allan Border is not? ? ?

Brett Lee ( who cant play any good outside of Oz ) is ok, , but seriously doesnt deserve to be in that list.

What does the cricketer of the year win...... the ALLAN BORDER MEDAL...

DO you think there will ever be the Brett lee medal ? ? dont think so..

AC/DC

**Fordman1** · 28-02-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/DC

Is it april 1 ? ? ? April fools that Brett Lee is in this team, , but Allan Border is not? ? ?

Brett Lee ( who cant play any good outside of Oz ) is ok, , but seriously doesnt deserve to be in that list.

What does the cricketer of the year win...... the ALLAN BORDER MEDAL...

DO you think there will ever be the Brett lee medal ? ? dont think so..

AC/DC

Not convinced about Brett Lee's selection either. All time great ? That's a big call. Perhaps he got the nod because of his ability to strike the ball on occations.

They needed to put a quick in the team and I guess Lee got the nod. How about Geoff Lawson or McDermott ?

Rodp · 28-02-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/DC

Is it april 1 ? ? ? April fools that Brett Lee is in this team, , but Allan Border is not? ? ?

Brett Lee ( who cant play any good outside of Oz ) is ok, , but seriously doesnt deserve to be in that list.

His bowling average and strike rate is better than McDermott away.

pb02 · 01-03-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC/DC

DO you think there will ever be the Brett lee medal ? ? dont think so..

AC/DC

I'm guessing India probably already have one for musical brilliance!! :hihi: :sm_headba

pb02 · 01-03-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Yes his average with the ball is 22 where McDermott is 26ish. I believe his strike rate is also a good 10 balls ahead. That's a pretty significant difference.

Erratic, absolutely but it's not punished as much in ODI as it is in tests. I question his selection in tests but I absolutely welcome his selection in ODI. He seems to be able to swing the white ball better than the red and batsmen flashing at his rubbish tend to rubbish it to a fieldsman. A W is a W to me.

He's not a death bowler, I agree. He terrorises the top order (who play him like a 2nd grader in tests) McGrath is the finisher. Looks like Clark is a suitable replacement and if he's 3/4 of a McGrath he's a godsend.

I don't see the Aus team being as dominant in the near future. They can win the WC but if they make it that far, their opponent is equally as likely to win.

Clarke is great in the tests but gets punished in the One day game because of his consitency. When Brett Lee is bowling well he is devastating, he was great for us in the last WC. But when he is off the batsmen don't need to hit the ball as the extras are enough...

I just wish we had Pollock!!!

Rodp · 01-03-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb02

Clarke is great in the tests but gets punished in the One day game because of his consitency. When Brett Lee is bowling well he is devastating, he was great for us in the last WC. But when he is off the batsmen don't need to hit the ball as the extras are enough...

I just wish we had Pollock!!!

That's the same reason why McGrath is excellent though. Give him some more time on the field and I think he'll go a long way at filling McGrath's boots.

However, you may be surprised to know that Lee's average is equal that of McGraths and better than Pollocks. In tests, I feel there's probably better alternatives to Lee, but in ODI's, Lee had the goods. I wouldn't use him at the death though.