Do You Think There Should Be Car/Power Laws For P Platers In W.A

[Flouro_Joe]

I was just at Castle Hill and there was this P plater in a VL spinning his wheels (er, wheel) between the roundabouts under Castle Towers in the rain, why oh why?

[falzoony]

^^^Agreed FPV8U. As long as there's no cops there handin out defects.

[Tuddy200]

It's a two sided coin, if we don't get the driver education right, then it could turn very bad. You teach them how to control themselves in an emergency in the car and recover, they're going to think they're invincable.

You give them tracks, skid pans etc, they'll self teach thmselves to be invincable and could potionally use both the streets and track anyway. I'm still a P-Plater within Victoria and I can honestly say, the Power to Weight Ratio, or blanket ban on V8s doesn't stop us! We simply do our cars up until 1Kw under our restriction and what does that solve? Nothing.

Personally, I have the mentality that, I do my car up so it looks **** HOT!, (Not Rice), Sounds Nice and has the power, I may cruise on Friday & Saturday night and meet in the car parks, but if someone wants to try and crack me, they follow me to the track. Only thing is, not everyone has this mentality, and those that don't, don't want to.

If these people don't think it's fun, then we need to find ways to make it fun. Instead of making other ways more thrilling. (Chance of getting caught is a thrill to us!)

[ebxr8240]

Actually I'm going into the RTA and get P plate and put on the back of my work truck so I can drive legally like an idiot !!!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by Skooter

I've recently done a uni assignment on young driver deaths and have done heaps of research into all these things like better driver training and power to weight ratios and the results have been amazing.

For starters I don't have any figures on me but I'm not lying I got all my info from uwa, Monash and another road safety report done by an independent firm I think.

It was found that power to weight ratio limitations DO NOTHING in regards to reducing young driver deaths and injuries, in fact where they have already been introduced young driver deaths have actually increased.

I have posted links to the reports before and yes it was interesting.

I can tell you my driving style in my TX5 was no different to that in my WRX now. The only difference is that the WRX is a far safer car to the TX5.

[fordOwner]

the poll is 50/50 when i voted, close!

As most of us I have seen way too many idiots do stupid things on the road - mostly P platers. And yes I was one too, I did the most stupid things when I was on my P's - coz I did not have any close calls to learn from... but I soon did.

I believe they should do more driver safety training not just road rules when they are on there L's including a first aid certificate.
Then when they pass give them a couple of tickets to the motorplex's Whoop *** wednesday or something.

But on the other hand what about the elderly? I have seen some SHOCKERS. what the hell do we do about them? they have had 40+ years of experience do we take there freedom away coz they are being over cautious?

[sleekism]

I'm sure plenty of you old farts used to hoon around when you got your licence.

It's part of the experience of growing up though I think a lot of P platers out there aren't taught properly.

I grew up working on cars and driving paddock bashers perhaps that's why I haven't crashed but some of my fellow p platers I really wonder about.

I know people on their P's who don't know if their car is RWD or FWD (and try to drift) and one changes UP gears when going up a hill.

But still your going to kill yourself at 100km/h same as 300 km/h maybe they should just ask an extra question in the test...Are you a excellent driver?

I think the people who would answer yes are going to crash.

i will never say I am an excellent driver because nobody is perfect and there is so much that can go wrong I think it's that mentality that keep people alive.

[Green X]

I want to know where all the P Platers are in there High powered cars, because when I was a P plater I can’t remember anybody having a SS or XR8, and I am 22 so it wasn't that long ago, and most of the P platers i see are in old commo's and they just think they are fast.

No we don’t need laws for it we need parents with some balls to control there Kids and stop putting the responsibility with the Government to do it for em.

When I was on my second year of P’s I wanted to go and buy a 5litre EB Falcon, the old man smacked me over the back of the head and said yeah and I will have it impounded and you can go back to caching the bus.

[fordOwner]

Hell, when I was a P plater I had a Suzuki Mighty Boy, and I was dangerous in that! even BEFORE I whacked a twin Turbo, 2" Stacker exhaust with extractors, 5 speed gearbox and a bigger 3cyl motor in.

[NGN 351]

Ban low performance drivers not high performance cars...

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Green X

I want to know where all the P Platers are in there High powered cars, because when I was a P plater I can’t remember anybody having a SS or XR8, and I am 22 so it wasn't that long ago, and most of the P platers i see are in old commo's and they just think they are fast.

No we don’t need laws for it we need parents with some balls to control there Kids and stop putting the responsibility with the Government to do it for em.

When I was on my second year of P’s I wanted to go and buy a 5litre EB Falcon, the old man smacked me over the back of the head and said yeah and I will have it impounded and you can go back to caching the bus.

Including me these are the cars some of my Friends (P Plates or just off them) Drive...
BA XR8
VE SSV (VYII SS Before it)
VU SS Ute
AUII XR8

One just sold his Turbo AWD TX3 and another is looking at either a VE SS(Or SSV) ute or a VY/VZ HSV.

Every time i drive to Melbourne i see atleast 8-10 P Platers driving cars they shouldn't be legally.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Including me these are the cars some of my Friends (P Plates or just off them) Drive...
BA XR8
VE SSV (VYII SS Before it)
VU SS Ute
AUII XR8

One just sold his Turbo AWD TX3 and another is looking at either a VE SS(Or SSV) ute or a VY/VZ HSV.

Every time i drive to Melbourne i see atleast 8-10 P Platers driving cars they shouldn't be legally.

Yep some people just have the right attitude towards working and saving up money. Or generous parents :

[Green X]

yeah and my view is if they ****** up and kill em self, no one to blame but the parents, if they let there 17 yo son/ daughter buy car's like that to hone there driving skills and the kid ****s up, no one to blame but them.

I don't think we need power restrictions, I believe if the old man or what ever has a XR8 then the kids should be able to drive it, but it's for the parents to decide when they can drive it and when they can get a "High powered" car of there own.

mate if you are a P plater and drive a XR8 good on ya, i wish i had one when i was 18 but am glad i didn't cause i more than likely would have crashed it or lost my licence, but when i see families on TV crying cause there 17 year old son lost control and hit a lamp post wile driving his SS commodore at brake next speed and was killed, with the hole we need to stop this from happening to other young people dribble I don't feel for them at all, cause what were you thinking!!

We don't need government regulation we got too much of that in this country already, we need people to start using there brain and accepting responsibility when a choice they make is the wrong one.

[Polyal]

The problem is, and no doubt about it, that even though safety has improved ten fold, so has the performance. Back way when most kids couldn't get cars that have the performance of today. You can have all the safety you want but its not going to help when you can hit 100 in roughly 8 secs (what ever a BF XT I6 can do).

By no means I am saying that its the cars fault, but things have changed and the laws, until recently, have remained the same; and as we all know for whatever reason people complain when changes are made.

What annoys me most about Australia is that every state has a different law for the same problem; and its not just P platers etc, I mean everything. A NSW or VIC P plater is NO different to a kid from WA.

There should be Australia wide standards, this way initiatives can be implemented everywhere.

[Force6]

Originally Posted by Green X

yeah and my view is if they ****** up and kill em self, no one to blame but the parents, if they let there 17 yo son/ daughter buy car's like that to hone there driving skills and the kid ****s up, no one to blame but them.

But what if their son crashed the car, not only killing himself but the other four passengars in the car that are along for the joy ride as well? These laws are about saving the lives of everyone in the car, not just the driver. Are the parents to blame for these deaths as well?

Speed kills, but so do cars with minimal if any safety devices.

[aussiblue]

We were all P platers or similar once and drove under much more liberal laws and lax application of same. I don't think today's' youngsters are any worse than previous generations rather with an aging population there are more of the grump intolerant old farts around to complain. being in my mid 50's I guess I am one of them and have to keep reminding myself to benchmark youths' behaviour against my own unsaintly behaviour at that age rather than my current standards.

I can remember in the late 70's when the police used to turn a blind eye to post Sunday session "drag races" through the White Sand hotel drive through bottle shop and car park. I'm not suggesting such extreme behaviour should be tolerated now but I just think we need to keep things in perspective and remember most young kids today are reasonably responsible and do their best to drive safely.

And there is a lot of research showing the best way to save lives on the road in not more driver training but better road design.

[aussiblue]

I would actually like to see the cops clamp down on those older drivers who don't make special allowances for L platers and P platers and try an bully them on the road. I am teaching two sons to drive at the moment and when drivers see L plates they often do stupid things like pull out in front of them at stop signs and pass illegally on the left on single lane roads despite the fact that the are driving at the legal speed limit and not holding anybody up.

I get similar problems when I drive my old EH panel van. Despite the fact it has drum brakes and takes more distance to stop and is no slouch on the road, many other drivers seem to think that they can pull out from stops sign in front of me, change lanes on me in corners etc without putting me at risk and obviously assume I will be driving at 15 km /hr rather 100km /hr or whatever. I thing I need to put mags and speed stripes over its all original paint job so that people think I am a hoon and thus assume will be driving at more than 15 km/hr.

One of the original intentions of P plates was so that other drivers would act more cautiously and make allowances for the less experienced but they seem now to be just targets for the cops and road bullies.

[stupa]

Danm this is good, no theres no point in power to weight restrictions, they are gonna do nothing. pulling skids where your allowed to just doesnt get the blood pumping like pulling them where your not meant to and excels and the like are a lot quicker than most people give them credit for. Ive had alot of fun hooning round in one

[Jayden]

I voted yes since im not on my Ps :P, BTW thats not stopping them OWNING a fast car just driving one on public roads. Too much inexperience and quite often way too stupid to drive a car even in a carpark.

And before you ***** about it, remember its only 2 years or whatever. Use that time to grow a brain so you survive the next 50 years.

poll is now 50 / 50

[XRchic]

What is the definition of "hooning"?

Is hooning a different thing to dangerous or unskilled driving?

How is hooning represented in all of the causes of traffic accidents, road injuries and deaths compared to other causes (ie lack of skill, drunk driving, falling asleep at the wheel, inattention etc)?

I would suggest that hooning in a general sense, for all the publicity, does not have that much of an impact on the road accident stats. I would suggest there are many other, far more serious causes of traffic accidents.

Given that, I would rather my kids drive something big and safe. A big engine block, loads of airbags, ABS, traction control, stability control, crumple zones, bigger brakes, grippy wide tyres and good suspension is always going to be safer than some 4 cyl shitbox....

My partner, some months ago, fell asleep at the wheel driving to work in the country at 4am and hit a pole dead on, doing 100kmh. He survived because of the car he was in - AUI XR8. The engine block absorbed most of the shock, the airbags were very effective, the cabin remained largely intact, the steering column collapsed and he escaped uninjured!!!!

I would then dare to also suggest that there is a relative over representation of accidents/deaths/injuries involving country roads combined with sleepiness, night time driving, miscalculation of a bend or something similar - compared to hooning.

Give me the Falcon any day (or something similar). If my kids are more likely to run into trouble out in the country and have an accident, than they are to die hooning, then I know what car I would rather they be in.....

You can just as easily be killed in a Daewoo as anything bigger and more powerful. You can lose control of a Daewoo at 130kmh as easy, if not easier, than in a Falcon. Hooning or not.

[XR06T]

very good point jac, in wa this year i am pretty sure that alot of deaths have come from crashes in the country, with the main factors being fatigue/alcohol etc.. no hooning but seeing as speeding is seen as hooning, and people creep over the limit, they are hooning.

from the other thread, that is something that never happens on car cruises, no fatigue or dd..

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Yep some people just have the right attitude towards working and saving up money. Or generous parents :

All of the listed cars have had no contribution from parents, just people with the right attitude and knowing what they want from a young age, the father of the guy that just got his VU SS was against him having a V8 for a while, but there are benifits of a young guy owning a car he really loves and wants to have for a long time.

I don't think it's up to the parents to say yes or no to a car, as there isn't much that they can do, i was living on the other side of the country, with a very well paying job and a deposit that would have seen my but in the seat of a new GT-P if i wanted one.

What can parents do about that? nothing as has been said, enough with the government regulations, and more people taking responsibility for their own actions.

As a side question to the poster, you said what about the crying parents over their son dying in a SS?

When was the last time you saw a SS or XR8 in a P Plater Fatal? because i cannot remember seeing one, unless you mean "High Powered Commodore" which according to the (Victorian) Media can be anything from a Stock Executive to a S Pac with 18" wheels

Sometimes it pays more to look at the footage than what they say.

[merlin]

yes i do.

[FlipXW]

Nope I dont agree.
It has already forced me to look for another car as an alternative to my 351xy until i get off my p-plates. It has also stopped me from driving my parents XR8 which can be inconviniant at times. My father bought his first car when he was 15 which was a 351xw gs then a 351xa fairmont then a 302 xc gs all before he was 25 he never had 1 accident and only 1 speeding fine (for 10kms over the limit). It is only a very very small minority that are idiots and spoil it for the rest of us who want to do the right thing.

[FlipXW]

And just to prove its stupid two of my ******* friends have sent there cars to the scrap yard from pulling handbrakies and being tools driving at 140kms +. These cars were a 6cyl vs commo and a camry :togo:. The kid that drives the commo thinks his king **** cause he owns a commodore and he thought he was invincible and as for the camry what can i say, should we be banning camrys from p- platers . It just shows that if you are a knob and you think your hardcore you can kill yourself or others no matter wat you drive.

[BAFalconXT]

Maybe all the OLD people should realise that they were young once, and would they have liked power strictions? Maybe they are so out of touch because when they got their licence, there were NO speed cameras, breathos, drug testing, or demerit points.

DO NOT FORGET the South Australian government has no plans to introduce these laws as the fatality rate dropped last year, due to ONLY the drop in road toll from under 25 year olds.

[Beetus]

in my city, they put a 110000 dolalrs into the 4th skate park here, yet do nothing for the young drivers who wanna have fun, and to the ppl who think it aint a thrill doing it legally check this out...............tell me we werent having fun and being safe............http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=2027865139 p platers btw....

[blk_frmnt]

I have a real problem with placing restrictions on a group of people due to the actions of only a few of them. P platers are classified as a group, it's like saying "most serial killers are men, let's place restrictions on all men". Out of all the thousands of drives P platers make all over the country everyday, what percentage of those result in accidents? You would obviously never see a news story along the lines of "P plater drives safely from home to work", would you? So lets just bear in mind the vast majority of P platers who drive safely.

And for all of you who say "I see p platers driving like **** everyday", have you ever considered that you tend to take more notice when there's a P on the car? You automatically think "**** driver...oh look it's a p plater...effin' P platers...", there are plenty of idiots off their Ps, make a note of how many people drive like fools and don't have Ps on their cars next time.

[Jayden]

There should be a law restricting people from driving too fast I recon. Wont that solve everything. lol

Fact is there is no solution that will keep everyone happy. In a perfect world people can be trusted to only 'hoon' when its not endangering the people around them. But unfortunatly there is a minority of 16 - 30 year old males that drive outside their skill level on public roads. I can live with a burnout or two, but they are on a mission to absolutely irritate others.

IMO cops should let more people off with a warning who didnt do any harm, and crack down hard on the real moron drivers. And all cops should be fair if thats not too much to ask for.

[xf pano]

No way!! There should be no power restrictions for young drivers anywhere. Im 17 and live in queensland, Now i pay tax, i pay rego, i pay insurance why should what im allowed to drive on the road be any diffrent to a 21yr old with an open license. And what do power to weight restrictions acheive anyway? My Xf 5spd ute will still do 170km\h, fast enough to kill you, will still do a reasonable skid all be it a single wheeler.

If i had say a new xr8 what would be diffrent, instead of 170 it would be 200 n something, and it would spin 2 wheels instead of one. You can be an idiot in any car.