Hypothetical- GT-F6 Lite verisons

[mik]

my mistake rrp...$162,901 the other price was list.

[WPN XR6T]

...So how much for a W427?

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by WPN XR6T

...So how much for a W427?

around $155,500

[barra240t]

so do you guys think FPV will never sell a vehicle over $100k sucessfully?

[Fev]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ford make these cars as light as they possibly can and maintain a competitive $RRP...
Making them lighter while ticking all the usual boxes costs an enourmous amount of money in R+D and component costs.

Pity, its what ford really needs to do. Holden spent it and they have a great product, alot of loyalty and alot more sales then ford even though we had the superior product, ours just wasnt all that different(other then the motor and interior). Ford's designers need to learn what product differentiation means.

they need to reinvent the brand's image, gotta spend money to make money!

[Bossxr8]

Ford/FPV can't even sell 3000 Falcons a month, FPV's aren't selling, but somehow they can afford investment dollars on a car they may not even sell 50 of. Sometimes these threads make me laugh. The dollars invested would not even come within a distant universe of the amount of sales it may generate.

Porsche GT3 and cars such as the M3 CSL probably sell in greater numbers than the whole FPV range combined, because they sell in just about every continent, plus they charge like wounded bulls, so of course they can afford to make these track based niche models. FPV can't.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Fev

Pity, its what ford really needs to do. Holden spent it and they have a great product, alot of loyalty and alot more sales then ford even though we had the superior product, ours just wasnt all that different(other then the motor and interior). Ford's designers need to learn what product differentiation means.

they need to reinvent the brand's image, gotta spend money to make money!

Holden have also lost allot more money than Ford too.. Holden speculate more than Ford, and often spend money they don't have too.. Ford are more conservative in their approach, "you've got to have it to spend it" is their approach....
Ford need to generate surplus funds for R+D by selling bread and butter models first. It is "chicken and egg" stuff too, but within reason they've got to secure the future before taking unnecessary risks with niche stuff.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by barra240t

so do you guys think FPV will never sell a vehicle over $100k sucessfully?

I'm sure you could get a few rubes to shell out $100k+ for an FPV but I'd wager that they wouldn't find enough of them to offset the development costs, particularly if you're talking about a lightweight FPV.

FWIW, I applaud HSV's balls to develop cars like the W427 but in no way does it influence my decision in buying a lesser Holden vehicle because of it.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Rodp

FWIW, I applaud HSV's balls to develop cars like the W427 but in no way does it influence my decision in buying a lesser Holden vehicle because of it.

HSV know that too, and the pricing goes a long way to explaining that. HSV needed to not only recoup all of its development costs on this model but it had to make a profit on it in its own right. The pricing suggests its certainly not a "loss leader".

[Fev]

oh ok, i was under the impression that ford had lost a lot more money purely because of poor sales rates etc etc

[snappy]

Costs of Engineering parts to be lighter would not need to be recouped in one vechicle . All of the fords range of cars could benefit from lighter parts. Let face it with current fuel prices it needs to be done anyway. But it won't happen they will just try to squeeze you in to the focus . Till there as heavy as a falcon anyway
Let face we know ford would put it in the to hard basket

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy84

Costs of Engineering parts to be lighter would not need to be recouped in one vechicle . All of the fords range of cars could benefit from lighter parts. Let face it with current fuel prices it needs to be done anyway. But it won't happen they will just try to squeeze you in to the focus . Till there as heavy as a falcon anyway
Let face we know ford would put it in the to hard basket

Do you not think Ford already make parts as light as they can while maintaining strength and functionality at a competitive cost?
Conversely do you think Ford deliberately make their cars heavy?
It costs tens of thousands of dollars to engineer a few hundred grams out, wholesale weight savings cost millions, then these lighter parts add ongoing extra cost to the model...

[X000BOSS]

i cant help but think they do try make their cars heavy(or not try hard enough to make them lighter). a 15-20 year old falcon is lighter than todays. i know abs+airbags+etc+etc. BUT we are using lighter weight materials from wheels to everything including thinner panels. so we have heaps of added options but newer technology that saves us weight. i think the cars should still weigh the same as they did 15-20 years ago when they had 2mm thick door skins.

[Dragoneletra]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The current range is already exceptional value IMO, Ford need to build better quality cars for the current price, not "dumb it down" by building base spec fully sic road rockets just to keep the "must have it now" kids happy...
Ford need to entice people to spend more on cars... or aspire to the next model up, making a cheaper XR series will kill the current range and probably compromise quality even further.

If ford built a 'fully sic bruz' model falcon with AWD, lighter, more powerful etc....

I wouldn't buy it.

I just bought a 2008model falcon and the build quality is bad enough as it is. I wash the car and the paint falls off, it's done 6000kms and it creaks already, the well body feels like it moves, the steering shudders around left hand corners. It takes about an hour to go from park to reverse or neutral or drive to reverse, the drivers door interior trim squeeks, you can move the front bumper about 13mm forward or backward at the far sides of the car.

I could go on for ever.
Oh..and apparently all the above faults are normal apparently.

I love fords, but not so much the new ones anymore....

You're mad spending more for less, when you are getting less as it is. You look at the 'build quality' (NOT technology etc) that used to go into the cars 30 40 and 50 years ago, hell, my XW is in pieces, but I reckon in 5 years time it will be in better condition than my new BF.

I wouldn't buy a new modded lightened more powerful falcon for the same price as a bog stock bottom of the range one, let alone double the price.

But thats just me.

Jc

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by barra240t

Hey all,

I don't know everything about development of cars, but I was wondering could FPV make an ultralight verison of the F6 and GT and a reasonable price? Or an F6 ultralight light F6 with the Territory AWD system? You would think something like this would be the closest thing to a race car and may make them a future ledgend. Anyway just a question.

They already do. The F6 is a light version of the GT/GT-P isn't it?

[WPN XR6T]

I think this thread might have got a bit lost somewhere, wasn't it origionally about base spec V8's and T's, less all the finery, badges (well, there is a major weight loss there alone ) and cost assosiated with the "prestige" cars these engines are assosiated with?

An XT Turbo would sell like no tomorrow, and less Air, power windows, power seats (and a back seat for that matter : ), you would have a good starting point for a very fast car without the preimum or luxo car tax..

[prydey]

Originally Posted by X000BOSS

i cant help but think they do try make their cars heavy(or not try hard enough to make them lighter). a 15-20 year old falcon is lighter than todays. i know abs+airbags+etc+etc. BUT we are using lighter weight materials from wheels to everything including thinner panels. so we have heaps of added options but newer technology that saves us weight. i think the cars should still weigh the same as they did 15-20 years ago when they had 2mm thick door skins.

one of the major reasons for the hike in weight over earlier falcons (e series) was the addition of IRS. i doubt anyone would want ford to go back to live axle rear!

making lightweight components, esp in the suspension area, will be very expensive in the event of a minor hiccup from the driver. use F1 as an example. a bit extreme but you get the idea. the components are all made extremely lightweight whilst maintaining strength but only in the direction they are meant to be moved. the slightest little knock in a direction they are not meant to be moved in results in damage. this is not practicle on road cars.

most of the weight is in the chassis, suspension, body etc not the interior so stripping the interiors wouldn't gain a whole lot.

[mik]

Originally Posted by X000BOSS

i cant help but think they do try make their cars heavy(or not try hard enough to make them lighter). a 15-20 year old falcon is lighter than todays. i know abs+airbags+etc+etc. BUT we are using lighter weight materials from wheels to everything including thinner panels. so we have heaps of added options but newer technology that saves us weight. i think the cars should still weigh the same as they did 15-20 years ago when they had 2mm thick door skins.

don`t think so, they will be heavy as long as people keep wanting more airbags, more speakers, bigger wheels and tyres, abs, more electronic aids , more wiring, electric seats, much bigger brakes, air conditioning,power steering, superior suspension, etc, you cant compare an older car with half the accessories to a modern car unless you want to pay triple the price.