BMW's first electric car is a Mini

[mercury maid]

http://www.motorauthority.com/mini-e...-la-debut.html

Makes sense.. at least they can test how reliable the car is, how popular it is..all without hurting their premium BMW name

[geckoGT]

I bet they sell like hot cakes in the US and europe where hybrids and diesels already are starting to rule the roost.

Electric 1 series will be next and I would bet they are out within 2 years.

[Airmon]

250km out of one tank : And it takes 2 1/2 hours to recharge.
I think I'd rather buy a 1L 3cylinder box than have the hassle of having to recharge it every night.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by Airmon

250km out of one tank : And it takes 2 1/2 hours to recharge.
I think I'd rather buy a 1L 3cylinder box than have the hassle of having to recharge it every night.

Not good for going long trips, but around the burbs to and from work, it would be alright. Put it on charge before you go to bed - no worries.

[Darkr]

I don't get electric cars, whats the point?

You are still going to burn an equal amount of coal to power the damn thing, if not more.

And a heap of oil is going into the production of the thing, so its not keeping away from oil either.

Edit: and don't give me that "oooh but you can use solar panels" crap becasue most of you should know that those things usually never repay the amount of energy they used to be manufactured.

Petrol will do me thx.

[alecrain]

Originally Posted by Darkr

I don't get electric cars, whats the point?

You are still going to burn an equal amount of coal to power the damn thing, if not more.

And a heap of oil is going into the production of the thing, so its not keeping away from oil either.

Edit: and don't give me that "oooh but you can use solar panels" crap becasue most of you should know that those things usually never repay the amount of energy they used to be manufactured.

Petrol will do me thx.

I know what you mean but from what I heard the electric engine is much more efficient, less energy is being wasted compared with the internal combustion engines.

My plan is to wait for most on the public to go electric so enthusiasts can get cheap V8s and fuel

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Darkr

I don't get electric cars, whats the point?

You are still going to burn an equal amount of coal to power the damn thing, if not more.

And a heap of oil is going into the production of the thing, so its not keeping away from oil either.

Edit: and don't give me that "oooh but you can use solar panels" crap becasue most of you should know that those things usually never repay the amount of energy they used to be manufactured.

Petrol will do me thx.

Because electricity is cheaper to the consumer than petrol. As for coal, well that is a whole different topic.

I do see the point, as an around town run about covering a lot less than 250km per day (most would be under 100km) they will do very well for the job. Hell, bring it out in clubman and I would even consider it, sick of funding the retirement funds of oil companies so that their CEO can order his brand new gold plated rolls royce to sit next to his zonda, lambo and Ferrari all whilst he claims he is doing it tough so therefore has to increase the cost of fuel again. We have a Mini JCW and Super Pursuit as our fun cars, why not have something that does not cost the earth to run.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Because electricity is cheaper to the consumer than petrol. ......

For the time being.......... the sceptic in me says electricity prices will be alot higher in the future.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Chopped

For the time being.......... the sceptic in me says electricity prices will be alot higher in the future.

Maybe so, good chance it will, but by that time electricity will be old technology and hydrogen will be here.

All I know is I do see the value in producing new technology so that people have the choice rather than being enslaved to the oil tycoons, I am sure that there are not many that will disagree with that.

[geckoGT]

Just found some interesting info.

Compare the 0-100 times for mini's.

Mini Cooper Electric 8.5secs
Mini One (not available in Aus) 1.4L/4 cyl 10.9 secs
Mini Cooper 1.6L/4cyl 9.1secs
Mini Cooper D (diesel) 1.6L/4cyl 9.9 secs
Volkswagen Golf Diesel 1.9L/4cyl 11.3 secs
Toyota Prius 1.5L Hybrid 10.9secs
Smart ForTwo 999cc 3cyl 16.7secs

Not bad performance for an electric! There is one good reason to take this over a 3cyl, better performance and chearper to run.

then look at the fuel consumption, they all have one except the cooper electric. More get up and go and no fuel consumption in a city run about, just have to remember to plug it in when you park it. These will sell.

[Chopped]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Maybe so, good chance it will, but by that time electricity will be old technology and hydrogen will be here.

All I know is I do see the value in producing new technology so that people have the choice rather than being enslaved to the oil tycoons, I am sure that there are not many that will disagree with that.

Yeah good point.

I also agree with you about the potential of electric engines >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXcLYqRcSs

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Yeah good point.

I also agree with you about the potential of electric engines >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEXcLYqRcSs

Awesome, nice find.

I want one, the silent track weapon! Imagine the feeling of accelleration in that thing. Bet the battery does not last long though.

[Pinch]

You cant drive a run-flat tyred Mini (all but base Cooper's) comfortably any length of distance away from the city anyway. Mine is a pure city car and would work well with the proposed electric capabilities. I have read about this before and have started getting approvals for power in my garage (don't have it yet - unit)... Cheaper to run and quicker. Nice.

If its not your only car, it could be a good and funky commuter. Might be a bit restrictive though until you can charge at work or when parked away from home as well. They already have that kind of infrastructure though in some Euro cities - with free parking. Florence and Sienna have them and I even checked out a electric car dealership in Florence.

I would be interested, but have already done some market testing with BMW/Mini anyway.

[geckoGT]

Wait until Australia starts taxing cars based on CO2 emissions (UK does), that will change attitudes. Electric + zero CO2 = zero tax.

You cant drive a run-flat tyred Mini (all but base Cooper's) comfortably any length of distance away from the city anyway

You can, two choices.

1 Pay a couple of hundred and get the Mini mobility kit (basically a can of fix a flat, branded mini of course and a battery operated compressor).
2 The supercheap option of a small compressor and a can of fix a flat, should walk away for under $50, this is the one I have taken.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Wait until Australia starts taxing cars based on CO2 emissions (UK does), that will change attitudes. Electric + zero CO2 = zero tax.



You can, two choices.

1 Pay a couple of hundred and get the Mini mobility kit (basically a can of fix a flat, branded mini of course and a battery operated compressor).
2 The supercheap option of a small compressor and a can of fix a flat, should walk away for under $50, this is the one I have taken.

Agreed, those too options would be fine - 2nd much better. But it is the ride on NSW roads away from the city that kills the long distance in it for me. I suppose I am a bit spoilt with the Fairlane, and to a lesser extent the Subie as stablemates. I don't know about you but our Mini (wife drives) doesn't seem to cope with our concrete freeways with their misaligned expansion joints, and course chip b-roads. On some freeways I can only comfortably do about 90 - 100 in a 110 zone where the road is really bad.

The Mini would actually be a great long distance car without the RF ride (and repairability issues). NVH, even for the cabrio is great. A set of non-run flats and the repair kit as you suggest would work a treat, and a relatively inexpensive fix, but if its long drives its the Fairlane for me (yep even over the Subie).

[SM1DY]

I dont think it would have been a huge slip for BWM if they had of produced an electric car....if anything it would've equalled some good publicity.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Pinch

Agreed, those too options would be fine - 2nd much better. But it is the ride on NSW roads away from the city that kills the long distance in it for me. I suppose I am a bit spoilt with the Fairlane, and to a lesser extent the Subie as stablemates. I don't know about you but our Mini (wife drives) doesn't seem to cope with our concrete freeways with their misaligned expansion joints, and course chip b-roads. On some freeways I can only comfortably do about 90 - 100 in a 110 zone where the road is really bad.

The Mini would actually be a great long distance car without the RF ride (and repairability issues). NVH, even for the cabrio is great. A set of non-run flats and the repair kit as you suggest would work a treat, and a relatively inexpensive fix, but if its long drives its the Fairlane for me (yep even over the Subie).

I agree, the run flats are awefull, I hated them from day one. So much that when I got a flat in one and it was going to cost me $400+ each, limited availability and can not be repaired, I replaced all with Toyo Proxes 4 @$280 each, available almost anywhere and can be repaired. Now the ride is much better and the grip has improved too. Have a look at Mini forums and most do the same thing. So now I have the supercheap mobility kit in the boot.

[Airmon]

Does the battery operated pump use the car's battery? If so will this decrease my range? :
I can see the benefits of an electric car, and you can't argue that they are more efficient (maximum power and torque immediately and constantly), and for inner city commutes I can also understand, especially those who really dont care about what kind of car they drive, but I wont be giving up my beloved internal combustion engine anytime soon!
I wouldn't like to have to plug my car in every night aswell, would just be a hassle. I also like the idea that I dont have to plan my trips in case I run out of petrol, because I can fill up anywhere (quickly!).
I think as it stands its far too much of a pain in the backside to be 'awesome', but its still new technology, I mean in the model T you had to advance the timing as you drove, so taking the time to charge your car every night and planning your commute a bit better isn't that much of a leap. Give it a decade and we'll see how they go.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Does the battery operated pump use the car's battery? If so will this decrease my range? :
I can see the benefits of an electric car, and you can't argue that they are more efficient (maximum power and torque immediately and constantly), and for inner city commutes I can also understand, especially those who really dont care about what kind of car they drive, but I wont be giving up my beloved internal combustion engine anytime soon!
I wouldn't like to have to plug my car in every night aswell, would just be a hassle. I also like the idea that I dont have to plan my trips in case I run out of petrol, because I can fill up anywhere (quickly!).
I think as it stands its far too much of a pain in the backside to be 'awesome', but its still new technology, I mean in the model T you had to advance the timing as you drove, so taking the time to charge your car every night and planning your commute a bit better isn't that much of a leap. Give it a decade and we'll see how they go.

Wise guy hey?

I don't think a mini electric would be going on long trips. :

Keeping in mind it is designed as a city commute car, with most owners haveing a dinosaur blood burner as the distance/family car, the range would be more than enough.

Personally I think plugging it in every night would be less hassle than lining up for fuel on tight a$# tuesday.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Awesome, nice find.

I want one, the silent track weapon! Imagine the feeling of accelleration in that thing. Bet the battery does not last long though.

Reading that article, it states that BMW have gone with a lithium-ion battery. Very smart move. These should last a lot longer than the Nickel-metal hydrides found in early electric cars. I think the new gen lithium-ion batteries have come a long way these days in terms of longevity.

Just on another note, if you want to watch some interesting history about the electric car, type "who killed the electric car?" into youtube. Just be warned, theres about 8 parts and they go for around 10 minutes each. But it's well worth the time spent watching it.

[Airmon]

Lithium-ion batteries are good, but come with their own drawbacks, the batteries will reduce the charge they hold every year depending on conditions, and wont be cheap to replace. So that 250kms could be 225km in a year, 200 a year later, etc. As it stands Lithium-ion batteries are more expensive than lead-acid variants.
The fact that they are also nowhere near as stable as lead-acid batteries is also another drawback, I really wouldn't want my battery to be catching fire (especially if its mounted under the floor).
I don't mean to say that Li-ion batteries are useless, as they have heaps of benefits over lead-acid batteries. But again, its new technology and give it a few years to advance a little.
The bigger success these first electric cars are will determine how much development will go into others.

Also I can see why people might have a big car for long trips and a mini for daily commute, but how much is this Mini going to cost? $40-50,000? Thats a decades worth of petrol assuming you run a large car like a Falcon empty every week.
You would have to factor in servicing costs and general wear and tear on the petrol car, but you would have to do the same for the Electric car, just replacing servicing costs with battery replacement.

I would also be interested to see how the accessories are run in the Mini, electric motors probably, but then having stereo, lights and A/C on full would have a larger effect on draining the mini then it would a petrol motor.

That said though, I hope it sells well so that the technology can be taken further.

[Benzilla]

The technology is out there, and people are throwing buckets of money at it.

This first link is the world fastest electric bike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHJN...eature=related
the second is what goe wrong when the wrong clown gets on it\
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pM1j2d1RMU

People are having fun with it, whole drag meets dedicated to battery power. The Americans even have diesel meets, the kind of stuff we don't see main stream here.

Eventually it will be made economical, and then become more main accepted, some funky "park n charge" system, power re-generation and better batteries will see developments. Then it will be a race between Hydrogen and batteries.

Either way, the resorces currently used to provide these (an the biofuel) are still huge.

[outback_ute]

Originally Posted by alecrain

I know what you mean but from what I heard the electric engine is much more efficient, less energy is being wasted compared with the internal combustion engines.

Not much better when you take into account burning coal or gas to create the electricity in the first place.

Note the electric Mini weighs 1465kg, a very porky little car. Pulling around that much weight can't be efficient, perhaps a lighter, less powerful motor & fewer batteries might not reduce range. After all would it matter if the car did 0-100 in 9.5s instead of 8.5?

[Cobra]

If the demand for electricity increases as everyone wants to rehcarge their batteries, this might fast track the abolishment of coal powered plants and make Nuclear a lot more enticing. Just have to get around all the nay-sayers and ignorant fools who still beleive if we go Nuclear there will be more chernobyls...

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

I agree, the run flats are awefull, I hated them from day one. So much that when I got a flat in one and it was going to cost me $400+ each, limited availability and can not be repaired, I replaced all with Toyo Proxes 4 @$280 each, available almost anywhere and can be repaired. Now the ride is much better and the grip has improved too. Have a look at Mini forums and most do the same thing. So now I have the supercheap mobility kit in the boot.

Nice advice there. Mini Cooper S is up for tyres soon so will swap them over.

Have to say I love the rough ride anyway and have done 1000klm round trips in the rocket no problem.

Are you certain the handling is ok though as I remember carsguide stating you lose grip by moving to normal road tyres?

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Nice advice there. Mini Cooper S is up for tyres soon so will swap them over.

Have to say I love the rough ride anyway and have done 1000klm round trips in the rocket no problem.

Are you certain the handling is ok though as I remember carsguide stating you lose grip by moving to normal road tyres?

I found I gained grip going to conventional tyre, the reason being the sidewall on the runflats is very stiff and the tyre tends to skip across bumps, the conventionals conform better and maintain a better contact patch. The downside is a little more sidewall flex so the suspension does not feel as stiff, easy fixed with some higher performance suspension such as the JCW package. I found the handling is still superb and I can still take corner speeds that would see our FPV skipping off into the bush, just don't need a kidney belt now.

Also I can see why people might have a big car for long trips and a mini for daily commute, but how much is this Mini going to cost? $40-50,000? Thats a decades worth of petrol assuming you run a large car like a Falcon empty every week.

You need to remember that the Mini Cooper Electric is a release model, based on the Cooper which is actually second on the range, below Cooper S and above One. I have no doubt that if the release is successful, it will come out in Mini One, which is more in line with your city runabouts. I would imagine that because Mini Cooper is approx $31k and Mini Cooper S is $40k, the electric will come in somewhere between. Compare this with opposition such as Prius @$37k, it does not compare to badly. Mini One Electric, if we ever get it will come in below $30k I would imagine.