Rudd to rev up car rescue plan

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by joolz

It only applies if you purchase an import vehicle. The same d in China and wanted to import an FG Falcon where the tarrif is around 35% compared to our measly 10%. Dropping tarrifs or free trade would only benifit us if all the other countries follow suit which id doubt will happen. Raise the tarrifs and save my job along with the other 100,000+ in the australian automotive industry. Oh and we all know Mr Rudd is in love with Toyota and Asia so GM and Ford dont hold your breath for a fair share even though not everyone lives in the city and needs a little car.

Right on Joolz

All Countries will at some time in the Future begin to insulate themselves & will raise Tariffs, you watch America in the next 12 months.

We Have to think about our Own Country First!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by joolz

It only applies if you purchase an import vehicle. The same d in China and wanted to import an FG Falcon where the tarrif is around 35% compared to our measly 10%. Dropping tarrifs or free trade would only benifit us if all the other countries follow suit which id doubt will happen. Raise the tarrifs and save my job along with the other 100,000+ in the australian automotive industry. Oh and we all know Mr Rudd is in love with Toyota and Asia so GM and Ford dont hold your breath for a fair share even though not everyone lives in the city and needs a little car.

Chinese officials helped fund Rudds election campaign orchestrated by his Chinese son in law last year, this is why he feels beholden to China. Rudd also wants to see free trade with China; well, free trade for them, barriers for us. This is why he also wants 1 million Chinese immigrants even though we are experiencing drought, recession, high inflation, rising unemployment etc; for they would ensure a second term in office as they are distributed around the marginals and always vote for the party that allowed them into the country.

As for Tarriffs, what they have announced is equivalent to the straw that broke the camels back. Toyota now have a lot of their Prius and Hybrid components made in China, so it is win win for the government and their new core strategy at term 2 in office. Further, it is designed as a package that immediately puts Toyota at an advantage which is also the brand of choice for the government, with no fewer than 60% of their frontbenchers driving Prius'.

As for the end of the "Buy Australian" policy, that ended on November 24th last year, and is reflected by the death of the fairlane, and the low numbers for statesman. Even with the LPG G6E, the government are still besotted with everything Toyota and the name "Hybrid".
As for the state governments; they buy Kia's now for they are bankrupt. In NSW alone, police patrols have been slashed due to the cost of petrol, and fleets of cars are now held on to for longer. In short, state governments are useless and should be dismantled post haste for the same reasons that we try to remove cancer.

Political persuasions aside, we can see that this study and plan is a farce particularly when you consider that it was commissioned by an idiot and conducted by Steve Bracks; that should be enough to make anyone suspicious.
Furthermore, the desired outcome was this green rubbish which infact, is all a load of BS of the highest order perpetrated by that fat Al Gore.
Now we have government policy based on a spurious science inspired cult that is the global warming morons, and we have government policy based on appeasing those who gave the biggest campaign contributions.
We have members here who talk of a law which killed the muscle car, well now we have idiots who killed the Australian family 6.

Finally, lowering of tarriffs is akin to giving another country lube whilst Australia drops her britches, bends over and grabs her ankles.
Well done to the idiots who have now made Australia an international laughing stock and a text book example of "what not to do".

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Still don't agree with the tariffs, it shelters the car makers and encourages mediocrity, look how good those Chinese cars are ;) our industry wasn't exactly setting the world on fire with the cars they were producing under higher tariffs.
Plus I pay enough taxes if I want an imported car then that is my choice. The locals here don't cater for everyone's needs/wants and obviously haven't a for a while.

What mediocrity? The FG falcon is a large economical (for its size) powerful RWD car that offers 6 star safety protection all for less than $40,000 AUD. The aussie manufacturers build cars to suit our requirements. By removing tariffs you are supporting those well built Chinese cars.

Australias automotive industry is stil relatively young by world standards, but it has grown. I am not denying it has made mistakes in the past, present and will no doubt in the future - however how is this different from any other industry or any other country?

[merlin]

A few comments from me:
1) I am not usually for giving private foreignly owned companies handouts but I have come to realise that it is worth protecting our local automotive industry as we (Aust) are losing so much manufacturing capacity overseas it is going to bite us in the long run. So I do welcome the federal money HOWEVER it seems completley mind baffling to hand out money to local industry with one hand then reduce tariffs with the other....the two policies are totally at odds.

2) A few people have commented how the government should buy local - as the manager of a large government department I have gone from buying Ford Falcon utes to buying Toyota Hilux's and from Ford Falcon sedans to Corolla's. Why? Well unfortunatly the Falcons spend more time in the dealers getting fixed under warranty than on the road and then when we go to sell them they're resale value is laughable. The Toyota Hilux and Corolla's just seem to work flawlessly and resale is superior to the Aussie offerings. Not to mention the fuel savings to the taxpayer over the 4cyl engines (yes egas will save some fuel costs but it is all lost from the resale and time off the road). In the end it is taxpayers money I am spending - so by getting better resale and reliability with the Toyota I am saving the public money. This is a very delicate topic and I think theres more to it than just saying "force government to buy local".

3) People are also saying that the local manufacturers serve the public/government with options - such as the FG mentioned above. Taking Ford as the example, what options are you talking about? Certainly not engine options....they offer a 4 litre 6 cylinder engine or 5.4L V8. We get hammered constantly about fuel costs and "green credentials" ect. so have switched to 4cyl Corolla's for a lot of the fleet - if Ford made a local 4 cyl we would investigate buying that (yes Focus is coming, to bad about the wait). Ford have the E-gas offering which we have purchased in the past - they are OK but also plagued by warranty problems and poor resale as mentioned in point 2 and they are far from thrifty anyway the way fleet cars are driven.

Would we switch back to local - we would love to if they sorted out their quality control and got resale values going up (which by government fleets not buying them as much I think it is helping resale to go up as huge numbers of Falcon fleet cars are nt flooding the auctions as much). Also if they offered a smaller 4 cyl engine option.

In then end it is worth saving the industry and the jobs otherwise in 20 years time we will be in big trouble.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by merlin

A few comments from me:
1) I am not usually for giving private foreignly owned companies handouts but I have come to realise that it is worth protecting our local automotive industry as we (Aust) are losing so much manufacturing capacity overseas it is going to bite us in the long run. So I do welcome the federal money HOWEVER it seems completley mind baffling to hand out money to local industry with one hand then reduce tariffs with the other....the two policies are totally at odds.

2) A few people have commented how the government should buy local - as the manager of a large government department I have gone from buying Ford Falcon utes to buying Toyota Hilux's and from Ford Falcon sedans to Corolla's. Why? Well unfortunatly the Falcons spend more time in the dealers getting fixed under warranty than on the road and then when we go to sell them they're resale value is laughable. The Toyota Hilux and Corolla's just seem to work flawlessly and resale is superior to the Aussie offerings. Not to mention the fuel savings to the taxpayer over the 4cyl engines (yes egas will save some fuel costs but it is all lost from the resale and time off the road). In the end it is taxpayers money I am spending - so by getting better resale and reliability with the Toyota I am saving the public money. This is a very delicate topic and I think theres more to it than just saying "force government to buy local".

3) People are also saying that the local manufacturers serve the public/government with options - such as the FG mentioned above. Taking Ford as the example, what options are you talking about? Certainly not engine options....they offer a 4 litre 6 cylinder engine or 5.4L V8. We get hammered constantly about fuel costs and "green credentials" ect. so have switched to 4cyl Corolla's for a lot of the fleet - if Ford made a local 4 cyl we would investigate buying that (yes Focus is coming, to bad about the wait). Ford have the E-gas offering which we have purchased in the past - they are OK but also plagued by warranty problems and poor resale as mentioned in point 2 and they are far from thrifty anyway the way fleet cars are driven.

Would we switch back to local - we would love to if they sorted out their quality control and got resale values going up (which by government fleets not buying them as much I think it is helping resale to go up as huge numbers of Falcon fleet cars are nt flooding the auctions as much). Also if they offered a smaller 4 cyl engine option.

In then end it is worth saving the industry and the jobs otherwise in 20 years time we will be in big trouble.

I agree with most of your post, I dont know when you bought your last Falcon ute but we have operated them here at work and they have been performed well.

What engine options did you have on the Corolla? Reason I ask is that the current crisis was unpredicted, it will take time for the manufacturers here to re tool and prepare for the future. Other manufactures have always made 4cyl engines in front wheel drive small cars and obviously the current situation suits them.

But I agree that the industry needs to stay an I beleive tarriffs should be frozen until we get a clearer picture of what is going on. I dont know what the industry needs to do to stay afloat and viable in this country. If we produce 4 cyl engines then we need volume to justify the capital expentidture. Or do we simply forget convential engines and workon a new power plant that isnt dependent on oil? But what organisation would put up the millions required in this enviroment?

[russellw]

It is likely a better outcome than that which I expected given the content of the Bracks Report but as I stated when the report was first released it:

1. Lacked anything that could be considered innovative.
2. Ignored the very good reasons for leaving the tariff rate alone in favour of being seen as the good guys in the AsPac region. If the complete raping we got at the hands fof the FTA with Thailand are any indication one wouldn't be inclined to expect that our neighbours will return the favour. As so succinctly put above, we have lowered the pants on this one.
3. The definitions applied to green cars are unlikely to be of any great benefit to the local industry who were already well embarked on plans for alternative means to improve their average fuel consumption by other means. It will help Toyota so someone will be happy.

Cheers
Russ

[Buddy 1]

1 Local Dealer Shutting up Shop with More to Follow :(

http://kempsey.yourguide.com.au/news...e/1354412.aspx

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Yeah you just continue to think only about yourself & not worry about what is good for your Country or fellow Citizens You Selfish *****

Wow if that's what you would consider a civilised discussion then I won't bother with you any further. There was no need to carry on like that but now I see your true colors, you must feel like a real man now.

The FG is a good car not great but good and is what the BA should have been. Compare it to the lumps that were produced when the tariffs were around 25%? Where is the incentive for improvement and innovation if you're guranteed sales due to your competitors being choked?

The industry needs a good shake up, protectionist taxes simply won't fix that there needs to be more thought. For example what was Ford's direction for the next 5 years? Where is the DI engines? The liquid injected LPG system? The diesel Territory?

I might be selfish to some of the zealots here but when I fork out 40k that is a lot of money for me. I buy based on a criteria no matter the brand or country of origin. I've been down the local route and was burnt badly by it, never going down there again.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Wow if that's what you would consider a civilised discussion then I won't bother with you any further.

:... : So Who ever Said I was Civilised._2:

[Dave_au]

Three words - dead cat bounce; it's too little, too late, and for the wrong areas.

The green car innovation fund of $500m sounds more of an easy windfall for Toyota, much like the $70m grant they received for them to build the Camry Hybrid in Australia, a car, which by all reports from Japan Toyota was going to build here anyway.

[DanielXR8]

I would be far more comfortable with this bailout if some kind of mandatory review of the car company's business practices in Australia went with it. Blind Freddy could see in the case of the two American car companies that management policies and practices have created many a reason, why a large number of consumers give these brands and their products a wide berth and why many of us on here have been less then thrilled with some aspect of our Ford ownership, now or in the past.

That core problem needs to be addressed. Fixing just the product alone, isn't enough to ensure the taxpayers money will end up being well spent. Confidence needs to be restored in the Australian made product and the network that sells and supports it.

Dan

[DanielXR8]

From news.com.au

US car giants'laugh at Aussie suckers'

By Pia Ackerman and Nicola Berkovic

The Australian

November 12, 2008 07:30am

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Car production
Handouts ... much of the $6.2bn Government money for carmakers could end up in the US.

* $6.2bn will be pumped into car industry
* Insiders say money will end up in US
* Hundreds of carmaking jobs already lost

THE American owners of local Ford and Holden plants will be laughing at the Australian "suckers" who have handed them a $6.2 billion industry assistance package, former car company executives say.

Expressing disappointment yesterday at the latest industry handout, industry veterans said the money would ultimately end up back in Detroit rather than bolstering needy sectors of the local industry.

Former managing director of Mitsubishi Australia Graham Spurling said the car companies would get a "free ride" from the Rudd Government on research and development, The Australian reports.

"They will say: 'Aren't we suckers'," said Mr Spurling, who led a South Australian government special automotive industry taskforce.

"We should be pumping so much - everything we can - into making the remaining car components people more efficient, more financially viable, less reliant on the vagaries of the car companies and their choices."
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The Rudd Government is pushing for the big car companies to invest in locally made "green cars" by more than doubling its green car fund to $1.3 billion.

Component manufacturers will be encouraged to consolidate and increase efficiency with $116.3 million, and the 10 per centimport tariff will be halved from 2010.

But the financial troubles of GM and Ford in the US continue to cast doubt on the survival of subsidiary Australian manufacturing.

General Motors, Holden's parent company, has appealed to the US Government to save it from collapse, saying its finances are so bad that it needs a federal aid package before president-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.

Deutsche Bank this week downgraded General Motors' share rating from hold to sell, saying the automaker would be bankrupt before the end of the year unless the Government agreed to a bailout.

Car analysts doubt whether the green car fund will result in new investment.

"There's a fair bit of money that's got to be put up (by the car companies) before the Government puts any money up," said car industry commentator John Mellor. "And at the moment, Ford and General Motors are not in the position to be putting too much money up."

Australia's car industry has already taken big hits this year, prompting reassessment of its future.

Mitsubishi closed in Adelaide in March, and Ford announced 450 job cuts at its Broadmeadows and Geelong plants in Victoria last month. Holden is to close its engine plant at Fishermans Bend in Victoria.

Industry sources have also warned Canberra that car dealers face the loss of $2 billion in credit with the withdrawal of GE Money and GMAS Financial Services from Australia. This might mean showrooms could not be stocked.

Former Mitsubishi executive Bob Manning said the Government's package failed to address fundamental failures in the domestic car industry.

"It largely gives money to companies whose parents are dreadfully insolvent anyhow or close to it," he said.

Mr Spurling said while the Government's intention to promote green cars was good, achieving that result would be tough. "I don't see enough people within Australia in the parts industry that can carry the ball in this technological strategy," he said.

Toyota's plan to build 10,000 Camry hybrid cars in Victoria from 2010 was trumpeted by Kevin Rudd earlier this year. Holden won't say if it is reconsidering producing a hybrid Commodore. Six months ago it rejected it as too expensive to develop.

Melbourne Business School professor Paul Kerin said the assistance package would benefit vested interests. "This plan is spending two and half times what Bracks proposed so it's no surprise that it's a shocking value for taxpayers and consumers." He said carmakers "were masters at playing off naive governments around the world".

"There are two interpretations of why the Government is giving so much money. One is they are naive. The second is they're pandering to vested interests, both producers and unions because it's a highly unionised sector."

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Wow if that's what you would consider a civilised discussion then I won't bother with you any further. There was no need to carry on like that but now I see your true colors, you must feel like a real man now.

The FG is a good car not great but good and is what the BA should have been. Compare it to the lumps that were produced when the tariffs were around 25%? Where is the incentive for improvement and innovation if you're guranteed sales due to your competitors being choked?

The industry needs a good shake up, protectionist taxes simply won't fix that there needs to be more thought. For example what was Ford's direction for the next 5 years? Where is the DI engines? The liquid injected LPG system? The diesel Territory?

I might be selfish to some of the zealots here but when I fork out 40k that is a lot of money for me. I buy based on a criteria no matter the brand or country of origin. I've been down the local route and was burnt badly by it, never going down there again.

Yes but are you comparing the lumps made in oz against the lumps made overseas at a similiar time - if so which cars? History has shown that many manufacturers have made rubbish in the past and a lot of people on this forum would no doubt have purchased "lumps" in the past - but it certainlty was not confined only to the local manufacturers. Previously I remeber my friends and I driving either EB falcons, VK Commodores, early model sigmas, magnas, skylines, Celicas and camrys and in my experience there was very little difference in any of them - they all had issues.

[Gobes32]

May I give a little prediction............

It seems that Australian labour is too dear and the cars we make are thirsty dinosaurs and our parent companies are going to be bankrupt next year. So therefore, Ford and Holden will cease to exist in 5 - 10 years time. Maybe less. Toyota will become Australia's sole car manufacturer.

Does this please anyone in this forum? I am almost resigned to the fact that my job will be gone in the next few years. It's funny, I used to have so much passion for Australian cars. To think a tiny little island in the pacific can design and build cars such as Falcon and the Territory, Commodore and the Aurion. ( pretty sure the camry is a universal design so does not apply ) But now, now I feel it's all going to be gone in a few years. People are against the governments handout and feel the money could be better spent. Ford Oz will never get an export plan off the ground because it needs to be in Ford US best interests first. It will be a shame to see it all go but we now seem to live in a world where it's more about the environment and how our cars impact it.

I hope like hell I am wrong because I really enjoy my job and it's no fun wondering if you will have a job next week every time you go to work. But the way people on here talk and the way Ford and G.M are going in America it may be too late.

R.I.P to the Australian Manufacturing Industry. You will be sorely missed.

[mik]

i hope your wrong Gobes32 , maybe i`m too old but i remember the old xygt`s 8 mpg with a hell of a lot less gadgets and safety features and weight because of it, (mind you i`d have one in heart beat ), i reckon the current henry`s are bloody efficient myself.... even my old au is pretty good , does anyone remember the xc 250 ci ......17 litres per 100 k`s if i remember correctly not a patch on todays models, if its more about the size of the cars comparing it to dinosaurs to some of the population i can understand that , maybe its a generational thing, i`m in late 40`s all my mate`s (Family types) are the same, we all prefer big cars, Falcons,Commys etc.....maybe we are dinosaur`s too

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by mik

i hope your wrong Gobes32 , maybe i`m too old but i remember the old xygt`s 8 mpg with a hell of a lot less gadgets and safety features and weight because of it, (mind you i`d have one in heart beat ), i reckon the current henry`s are bloody efficient myself.... even my old au is pretty good , does anyone remember the xc 250 ci ......17 litres per 100 k`s if i remember correctly not a patch on todays models, if its more about the size of the cars comparing it to dinosaurs to some of the population i can understand that , maybe its a generational thing, i`m in late 40`s all my mate`s (Family types) are the same, we all prefer big cars, Falcons,Commys etc.....maybe we are dinosaur`s too

I am the Same sort of Age as you & I Remember these Vehicles, I had a 5.8L XC Fairmont GXL with a Rebuilt Engine & the Fuel Gauge never stopped Moving Backwards (you could actually sit on 100 k's & watch it moving Down lol).

This was approx 28 years ago though & Fuel was Cheap.

Move forward 28 years & my Current XR6 is better in all ways including approx 60% better Economy & the Performance feels about the same although the XC had Brute Power :

All Vehicles have improved in Leaps & Bounds compared to 28 years ago or even 10 years ago including the Aussie Built ones so why are they not Quality enough for Many Aussies who Buy a Camry over a Falcon?

Sure a Camry may have Less issues with Minor things going wrong but it is also much more Boring a Vehicle in General.

I feel People these Days are Spoilt & expect too Much (myself included) as back 30 years ago we loved our Holdens & Falcons even if they were pretty rough Vehicles at the time they were Great & to be able to Have a XC GXL with a 5.8L Engine was like having a FPV GT Today

Or a GTS Monaro with a 5L 4 Speed manual (Had a few of these as well) :