Herrods

[pwr4ce]

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

The tune is where it can go wrong, and badly!.

Then maybe I should delete the tune option!

[5.0 ED]

Or i'll say is I have nothing bad to say about their mod's. Just bad things about their tuning ability, always putting in too much timing and car's leaving detonating, and although i have never dealt with chris from bluepower before, i have seen and heard plenty of results from his tunes, and i'd have to say that it seems to me that he is one of the best in the industry. And if it wasn't for me doing my own tune, i'd be taking mine their, at which i still may.

[FTE217]

Ah its funny about this performance house is no good but the one I go to is better.
Look everyone has good and bad experiences its just path of the course.
To the poster, after you have done YOUR own research, summed up some of the posts here make calls to these shops or better still visit them and get to meet the boss, check out their place you'll know where you want to part with your hard earned.

[loony888]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Great place if you have more money than sense.

That's my opinion.

sorry mate, but from my experience that's just not true. you get what you pay for, and i just bought a cat back system in stainless for my XR8, paid $1420 for it with a 10 year warranty, aussie made. they offered me the same thing but made in china with 1 yr warranty for $800 and although i didn't buy that, i had looked everywhere and priced up everything before i decided and the chinese herrod system was cheaper than equivalent chinese stainless systems i could find.
add to that their brake package from PBR came in $600 cheaper than my next best price and i'll be buying that from them too. next up for me though is headers and cats and their price for them with the ceramic coating can't be beaten either. sure, i could find cheaper products but finding an EQUIVALENT product cheaper? not so easy.


paul.

[FPV+fteT3]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Ah its funny about this performance house is no good but the one I go to is better.
Look everyone has good and bad experiences its just path of the course.
To the poster, after you have done YOUR own research, summed up some of the posts here make calls to these shops or better still visit them and get to meet the boss, check out their place you'll know where you want to part with your hard earned.

Have to totally agree with bluedriver a tune is either good or a bad experience I personally use herrod equipment but not their w/shop good idea to do your own evaluation and take a look at a couple of shops see what sort of a place it is. Most good w/shops are not shy about showing what they do.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by loony888

sorry mate, but from my experience that's just not true. you get what you pay for,
paul.

Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah righto. You'd have to be loony!

Where is Rob? Doesn't he post here anymore?

[pwr4ce]

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Ah its funny about this performance house is no good but the one I go to is better.
Look everyone has good and bad experiences its just path of the course.
To the poster, after you have done YOUR own research, summed up some of the posts here make calls to these shops or better still visit them and get to meet the boss, check out their place you'll know where you want to part with your hard earned.

Question:
Do these shops warranty there edits? or is the risk of damage all the customers?

[loony888]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Ha ha ha ha.

Yeah righto. You'd have to be loony!

Where is Rob? Doesn't he post here anymore?

well it's obvious you have an axe to grind....................


paul.

[5.0 ED]

As a general rule if your car is stuck on a dyno, and the engine blows up while on the dyno. Its your problem. I do know of engines that have blown up while on the dyno (not to do with herrods) and it has been the customers problem to get it fixed.

It is very easy for them to put it back on the customer, with things like, you were over reving it, or you put in the wrong fuel, a sensor went faulty and blew it up, whatever, there is plenty they can put back on you. If you wanna take it to court you need evidence, evidence that comes from a mechanical engineer pulling the motor down, and photo's of it etc. etc.

I do know of a case whereby an exhaust shop emptied out the cats on a customers car, they put the oxy up the cat while still hooked up to the engine and burnt the cat contants out, blowing it back towards the engine, rebuild costing somewhere around $4k, the owner of the vehicle who was actually a mechanic took it to caught and actually won to a degree i think he got back $2k, after months and months of stress and waiting and going to solicitors having everything documented, he got his 1/2 his money back. 99.9% of people won't bother to goto this extent.

So no matter what whoever tunes your car you should be looking into very carefully, im sure most of them if you left and the car was pinging and you went back to them that they'd fix it, but if damage to engine etc. is done its gonna be your problem.

And a nice workshop thats clean and tidy and has all the tools didn't mean anything, even talking to the tuner won't really tell you a lot, unless you can talked equal to equal with knowledge to the person, otherwise really you have no hope of knowing. I can tell you now that i can tune my full throttle mixtures some 20 ways, but only 1 is really the correct way. And all the other ways will have downfalls of some types.

Along the same lines the ford ecu is very complicated, i know a lot of mechanics, i've shown a lot of them the tuning software i have, i've tried to teach some of them parts of it and so on, and this really isn't something in your normal computer literate mechanics ability. And in reality no one including SCT etc. completely understand how every part of the eec workings, every model etc. from ford is custom, and it isn't just lets turn something on, its lets add this function into the program, and its done by adding an extra line in to the program, and just inserted at whatever point they feel like it. I have 2 exactly the same cars with 6 months between them and the later one has about 15 extra lines added in, in the engine control section only, why? only ford knows. What they do, only ford knows.

In order for someone to be a good tuner in my opinion it takes a person that not only has a extremely good mechanical understanding of it, but someone who also has an extremely good understanding of how a computer actually works.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by pwr4ce

Question:
Do these shops warranty there edits? or is the risk of damage all the customers?

Well this is "the grey area" and I think 5.0whiteaughia has summed it pretty good above.
His last paragraph is the key imo as well......

Look these comments about xyz performance house have product supplied by such and such the same as another brand why care ?!
This has been going on for donkeys years wether it be a water pump, brake pads filters yaddayaddayadda.....if a company keeps their prices up because they believe they offer a point of difference its their perogative you don't have to buy ?!

[pwr4ce]

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

As a general rule if your car is stuck on a dyno, and the engine blows up while on the dyno. Its your problem. I do know of engines that have blown up while on the dyno (not to do with herrods) and it has been the customers problem to get it fixed.

It is very easy for them to put it back on the customer, with things like, you were over reving it, or you put in the wrong fuel, a sensor went faulty and blew it up, whatever, there is plenty they can put back on you. If you wanna take it to court you need evidence, evidence that comes from a mechanical engineer pulling the motor down, and photo's of it etc. etc.

I do know of a case whereby an exhaust shop emptied out the cats on a customers car, they put the oxy up the cat while still hooked up to the engine and burnt the cat contants out, blowing it back towards the engine, rebuild costing somewhere around $4k, the owner of the vehicle who was actually a mechanic took it to caught and actually won to a degree i think he got back $2k, after months and months of stress and waiting and going to solicitors having everything documented, he got his 1/2 his money back. 99.9% of people won't bother to goto this extent.

So no matter what whoever tunes your car you should be looking into very carefully, im sure most of them if you left and the car was pinging and you went back to them that they'd fix it, but if damage to engine etc. is done its gonna be your problem.

And a nice workshop thats clean and tidy and has all the tools didn't mean anything, even talking to the tuner won't really tell you a lot, unless you can talked equal to equal with knowledge to the person, otherwise really you have no hope of knowing. I can tell you now that i can tune my full throttle mixtures some 20 ways, but only 1 is really the correct way. And all the other ways will have downfalls of some types.

Along the same lines the ford ecu is very complicated, i know a lot of mechanics, i've shown a lot of them the tuning software i have, i've tried to teach some of them parts of it and so on, and this really isn't something in your normal computer literate mechanics ability. And in reality no one including SCT etc. completely understand how every part of the eec workings, every model etc. from ford is custom, and it isn't just lets turn something on, its lets add this function into the program, and its done by adding an extra line in to the program, and just inserted at whatever point they feel like it. I have 2 exactly the same cars with 6 months between them and the later one has about 15 extra lines added in, in the engine control section only, why? only ford knows. What they do, only ford knows.

In order for someone to be a good tuner in my opinion it takes a person that not only has a extremely good mechanical understanding of it, but someone who also has an extremely good understanding of how a computer actually works.

Geez - from what youre saying, I guess Ill just be happy with just an exhaust and cai (and an engine still in one piece!)

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by pwr4ce

Then maybe I should delete the tune option!

The exhaust they use is a Xforce exhaust and you would probably get it at a better price than them as well, if you looked around

[5.0 ED]

Look don't get me wrong, tunes are good, one of the best mod's you can do, the whole thing is that if you goto the wrong tuner, in can end in catastrophy. So the whole important thing is to find a tuner that isn't going to stuff it up, and all you really can base it on is word of mouth.

You can always research a bit on engine tuning yourself, make sure you know what detonation/pinging sounds like.

The biggest place tuning workshops go wrong is that they run too much full throttle ignition timing, which just isn't worth it, a lot of tuners will tune the car and then remove 2 degree's from all full throttle timing RPM's. This then gives you a very large safety area, at a loss of under 1 %.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

The exhaust they use is a Xforce exhaust and you would probably get it at a better price than them as well, if you looked around

Herrods do not use or fit X Force.
They have affiliations with Pacemaker who make their headers and HiTech for the Cats Back systems.
http://www.hitechmufflers.com.au/pro...dex.php?b=ford

Recently I think they've also hooked up with HM headers and are fitting / recommending their cats back systems as well............someone else may be able to verify the HM situation ????????

For what its worth.........I had Herrods lower my BFGT with their DJR spring package along with their camber kit..........damned good job. Very clean and the stuff works a treat. Car doesn't chop the front tyres out and the springs retained the factory compliance whilst giving it a lower stance..........I can recommend them for doing that sort of job.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by ESP

Herrods do not use or fit X Force.
They have affiliations with Pacemaker who make their headers and HiTech for the Cats Back systems.
http://www.hitechmufflers.com.au/pro...dex.php?b=ford

Recently I think they've also hooked up with HM headers and are fitting / recommending their cats back systems as well............someone else may be able to verify the HM situation ????????

For what its worth.........I had Herrods lower my BFGT with their DJR spring package along with their camber kit..........damned good job. Very clean and the stuff works a treat. Car doesn't chop the front tyres out and the springs retained the factory compliance whilst giving it a lower stance..........I can recommend them for doing that sort of job.

I know and I didn't say that Herrod's use X Force.

If you read the whole thread you will realise that I was referring to Intune

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

I know and I didn't say that Herrod's use X Force.

If you read the whole thread you will realise that I was referring to Intune

Ooooops.................just didn't make the connection in your post ??????............:

[pwr4ce]

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

Look don't get me wrong, tunes are good, one of the best mod's you can do, the whole thing is that if you goto the wrong tuner, in can end in catastrophy. So the whole important thing is to find a tuner that isn't going to stuff it up, and all you really can base it on is word of mouth.

You can always research a bit on engine tuning yourself, make sure you know what detonation/pinging sounds like.

The biggest place tuning workshops go wrong is that they run too much full throttle ignition timing, which just isn't worth it, a lot of tuners will tune the car and then remove 2 degree's from all full throttle timing RPM's. This then gives you a very large safety area, at a loss of under 1 %.

I hear what you are saying and very much appreciate the advice.

Recently I had my Harley tuned by the dealer (used a screamin eagle race tuners kit from HD with a pre-configured edits to suit my engine mods) and it made a real difference to the bike, so are there pre-configured tunes to suit my car with selected mods instead of letting someone loose like a Dr Frankenstein to hand tune it and potentially cause $$$ of damage?

Can I also guess that at the next service, the Ford dealer will overwrite the tune with the any updated Ford factory spec?

[pwr4ce]

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

The exhaust they use is a Xforce exhaust and you would probably get it at a better price than them as well, if you looked around

Is Xforce any good? What are the alternatives?

Would you agree that SS inductions is the way to go with CAI?

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by pwr4ce

Can I also guess that at the next service, the Ford dealer will overwrite the tune with the any updated Ford factory spec?

I think they would more likely refuse to update your car based on the fact that it has been tuned aftermarket (and they will be able to tell).

As for CAI, I would suggest a Bluepower intake which seem to be getting consistently proven results.

[FPV+fteT3]

To tune a BF requires a flash tune box like a capa unit and before you take it to ford you would re-install the factory tune specs so if they update the specs you have the update without wrecking your custom tune.
On a BF ford can tell it has been flashed as it has a counter in the program.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by pwr4ce

Is Xforce any good? What are the alternatives?

Would you agree that SS inductions is the way to go with CAI?

I had a Herrod cat back system on my ute and changed it for an XForce system as I found the herrod system too quiet.

I think that XForce has one of the better sounding systems on the market.

As far as CAI are concerned the only one to get is a Bluepower CAI.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by pwr4ce

Would you agree that SS inductions is the way to go with CAI?

Check this best deal you will see in a long time, send a pm to Russ and see if there are any left...
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11241470

[barbarian]

its rated it good.

over and out