V8Supercars vs. Ford/Holden sales

spatel · 13-01-2009, 08:47 AM

I was going to put this in the 'Pits' thread but since it's about sales I've put it here.

I found this article on carpoint.com and thought it was quite good.
Roland Dane commenting on vehicle sales of Ford and Holden in regards to V8 Supercars sucess. He's hit the mark with the Ford marketing. If any Ford execs. reading this forum please take note. I'm sure sales would definately lift if Ford sang out from the roof tops about V8S wins.

Roland Dane says V8 Supercar racing vital to road car sales
Commentary here late last week that, based on last year's VFACTS car sales figures, the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" adage no longer holds true brought some feedback from V8 Supercar racing's championship-winning Triple 8/Team Vodafone principal Roland Dane.

We were surprised -- pleasantly surprised, we must say -- to receive a lengthy email from Dane on the matter.

Here's what he had to say:
"You make a case that the participation of Ford and Holden in V8 Supercars is not helping them in the sale arena in Australia because their sales of Falcons and Commodores continue to fall.

"My view is actually that without their participation in the championship they would have long ceased to be able to sell the premium versions of these models -- the XRs and the SS models as well as the FPV and HSV ranges.

"I believe that Holden realise this and they have continued to sell meaningful quantities of V8-engined cars as a result.

"These models are the ones that earn the companies money -- clearly the rental ones do not.

"The evidence from Europe is that the mass makers have not been able to sell top-end versions of their 'cooking' cars for some years, whereas here both Ford and Holden have managed to do so.

"In Europe the migration to the premium brands has been almost total beyond a certain (pretty low) price point, whereas there has remained a reasonable market here for the more expensive versions of the Falcon and Commodore.

"That, in my view, is entirely due to the kudos that flows from the racing activities.

"Unfortunately, Ford in particular has done so little to activate its sponsorship of race teams and drivers that they have failed to gain as much traction as they could from the successes they have had.

"They cannot expect to get much from the sponsorship if they don't tell people about their success!

"Not once in three years did Ford shout about winning Bathurst, let alone anything else.

"But my point is: how bad would sales be of the premium versions of the Falcon and Commodore without the racing activities?

"Answer: so low that they would cease to be viable, and if those models cease to be viable then the whole range ceases to be viable (faster than otherwise might be the case anyway), as those are the models with the margins.

"Conversely, how much better would sales of the Falcon be if they properly exploited the successes?

"Racing can sell cars if it is done successfully and exploited correctly and effectively -- ask the likes of Audi, who probably do it better than anyone.

"The real shame right now is that Ford Australia has one of the best model ranges in the world at its disposal (from Europe as well as here) and yet the marketing department here has failed to take advantage of this.

"Why are we not seeing Jamie Whincup being used to market the new Fiesta, for instance, let alone the Falcon?

"A final thought ... I believe that Holden sold around 12,000 V8-engined Commodores in 2007.

"They cost very little more to make than an Omega version, but sell for appreciably more. So the extra margin on those cars might easily amount to $10,000 per unit (and I would think it's more) over the 'cooking' versions.

"But let's be very conservative and say it is $5000 per unit. That's $60 million extra gross per year, so it suddenly makes a racing programme look very cheap."

As we wrote pre-Christmas on the Auto Action V8 Supercar Summit (the third item of the commentary here), Dane is a man with plenty of wisdom worth hearing.

Not only has he raised the standards in V8 Supercar racing preparation, presentation and performance in recent times, these latest comments are a valuable perspective in the debate on the merits of racing as a marketing tool for Australian car manufacturers.

burnz · 13-01-2009, 08:54 AM

he may allso be worried that if holden/ford pull their sponsorship he may well be racing in a non existent series.

4Vman · 13-01-2009, 09:34 AM

Put in perspective... Roland's spin is based purely on his own self interests and agenda, he's bitter about Ford pulling funds from his team....
Suddenly he's "concerned" about Fords future, but was happy to remove any semblance of Ford branding from his teams merchandise after his dummy spit?
After Ford had supported his team for many years?

Bud Bud · 13-01-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Suddenly he's "concerned" about Fords future, but was happy to remove any semblance of Ford branding from his teams merchandise

Are you sure??? because
1) Sponsors pay for that privilege to be on a shirt, this would have the effect of annoying other payed up sponsors and

2) Fords marketing department is known to be very particular and protective about how and when the Ford logo is used anyway.

Bossxr8 · 13-01-2009, 12:16 PM

Ford have come to their conclusions through a lot of market research, so they believe they know what the score is in relation to win on Sunday sell on Monday. Wether they are right or wrong who knows, but Roland Danes comments need to be taken with a grain of salt, he has a big vendetta against Ford now.

4Vman · 13-01-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford have come to their conclusions through a lot of market research, so they believe they know what the score is in relation to win on Sunday sell on Monday. Wether they are right or wrong who knows, but Roland Danes comments need to be taken with a grain of salt, he has a big vendetta against Ford now.

Yep, funnily enough Holden, Subaru, Honda, Toyota etc are all reducing motorsport funding both here and world wide TOO....
So i think most of them have come to the conclusion that the relationship between track results and showroom sales is tenuous at best.....
Motorsport involvement is a "luxury expense" or indulgence now for the car manufacturers....

galaxy xr8 · 13-01-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford have come to their conclusions through a lot of market research, so they believe they know what the score is in relation to win on Sunday sell on Monday. Wether they are right or wrong who knows, but Roland Danes comments need to be taken with a grain of salt, he has a big vendetta against Ford now.

And with comment's and statement's like this he is what I believe making it worse for himself and the team.

**ebxr8240** · 13-01-2009, 05:18 PM

The real shame right now is that Ford Australia has one of the best model ranges in the world at its disposal (from Europe as well as here) and yet the marketing department here has failed to take advantage of this.

So true !!

Imo let the team conflict rest..

The G6ET Spot · 13-01-2009, 05:18 PM

The whole win on Sunday and sell on Monday was dead and buried years ago.

Even back in the groupC touring car days it held no relevance.

If you took notice of what he is actually saying , you would realise that he is actually agreeing with what most people on this and a lot of other Ford based forums have been saying for ages.

That Ford's marketing department haven't and have no idea (IMO) on how to manipulate and take advantage of the great success that Ford has had over the past few years. In both V8 supercars and in general particularly the awards that the FG range has won lately.

Oh wait a minute they did do one ad didn't they!!!

It is a little ironic that this has come up todayas I was only speaking to someone high up at one of the Ford dealerships on the weekend and he said exactly the same thing.

That Fords sales figures can't be attributed to their lack of advertising and not pushing the success of their models, not only Falcon but also Mondeo and Focus ranges.

**ebxr8240** · 13-01-2009, 05:22 PM

Ask the average guy who doesn't follow racing ??
He'll possibly say Holden win ...

DanielXR8 · 13-01-2009, 07:42 PM

I purchased a brand new XR8 and later a GT. I did not then or now care less what was happening with V8 Supercars, which has about as much to do with the production cars as Nascar does. I don't even draw any relationship between them. The Tennis sponsored by Ford has about the same marketing value to me - none.

It was and remains for me at least, totally irrelevant to what car I decide to buy. Same as my local Ford dealer being a nice guy according to Ford and I should want to be his friend. No I am not and no I don't want to be. He's not that nice.

Mind you if my clothes dryer spun as well as Mr Dane can I would be very happy with it and recommend the "Dane series" clothes dryer to my friends.

DanielXR8 · 13-01-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAPID XR8

The whole win on Sunday and sell on Monday was dead and buried years ago.

Even back in the groupC touring car days it held no relevance.

If you took notice of what he is actually saying , you would realise that he is actually agreeing with what most people on this and a lot of other Ford based forums have been saying for ages.

That Ford's marketing department haven't and have no idea (IMO) on how to manipulate and take advantage of the great success that Ford has had over the past few years. In both V8 supercars and in general particularly the awards that the FG range has won lately.

Oh wait a minute they did do one ad didn't they!!!

It is a little ironic that this has come up todayas I was only speaking to someone high up at one of the Ford dealerships on the weekend and he said exactly the same thing.

That Fords sales figures can't be attributed to their lack of advertising and not pushing the success of their models, not only Falcon but also Mondeo and Focus ranges.

Maybe if the racing had some more relevance with the real cars...

Your brake rotors warp and you pull into the pits. The pit crew manager says "they all do that" and fixes nothing before waving you back out.

You blow a diff and sit in the pit for eight weeks while Ford gets another one to you.

You get a new race car for the season, but you can't enter the race until you have spoken to the pretty girl about paint protection.

You notice after talking to the pretty girl about paint protection for the car, that your car has been rolled out to the grid and has damage to the rear bar. You ask what happened. The manager denies anything happened and that you must have damaged it on the first corner. You explain you haven't driven the car to the first corner yet, thats why its on the grid. He calls the Dealer Principal and you are banned from racing.

Your clutch fails and you ask FPV for a new one. They say it failed because you drove it like a race car. You mention it is a race car. They say exactly and void the warranty. You aren't happy about this and call Ford Customer Service who promise to look into it and call you back. They never call.

By the end of lap one the depreciation on your car is still faster than the car can do. Holden is a close second.

You pull in with engine trouble and it looks like they will fit a V6 in the engine bay, then at the last minute they put the old straight six back in. Nothing is heard of the V6 again.

Now that would be more relevant then the car racing we see now.

phillyc · 13-01-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spatel

I was going to put this in the 'Pits' thread but since it's about sales I've put it here.

I found this article on carpoint.com and thought it was quite good.
Roland Dane commenting on vehicle sales of Ford and Holden in regards to V8 Supercars sucess. He's hit the mark with the Ford marketing. If any Ford execs. reading this forum please take note. I'm sure sales would definately lift if Ford sang out from the roof tops about V8S wins.

[I]

Here's what he had to say:

"Unfortunately, Ford in particular has done so little to activate its sponsorship of race teams and drivers that they have failed to gain as much traction as they could from the successes they have had.

"The real shame right now is that Ford Australia has one of the best model ranges in the world at its disposal (from Europe as well as here) and yet the marketing department here has failed to take advantage of this.

"Why are we not seeing Jamie Whincup being used to market the new Fiesta, for instance, let alone the Falcon?

I]

Is he biased? Of course he is. But everything he has said is true. Many of us on here have said for years that Ford just don't know how to market their cars.

Particularly, we have one of the best model range in the world, but it isn't taken advantage of.

**Luke Plaizier** · 13-01-2009, 08:18 PM

Well I bought an XR8 because of V8 Supercars.

There's too many opinions here. The Dane has some valid points.

Lukeyson

davocol · 13-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Lol, nice post. The same can be said about any sponsorship and whether there is a direct correlation between it and sales,I think it's more than just creating sales though and is about brand awareness. The problem as stated by Dane though was that Ford did not capitalise on the times they did win so they may as well get out of it. I tend to agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Maybe if the racing had some more relevance with the real cars...

Your brake rotors warp and you pull into the pits. The pit crew manager says "they all do that" and fixes nothing before waving you back out.

You blow a diff and sit in the pit for eight weeks while Ford gets another one to you.

You get a new race car for the season, but you can't enter the race until you have spoken to the pretty girl about paint protection.

You notice after talking to the pretty girl about paint protection for the car, that your car has been rolled out to the grid and has damage to the rear bar. You ask what happened. The manager denies anything happened and that you must have damaged it on the first corner. You explain you haven't driven the car to the first corner yet, thats why its on the grid. He calls the Dealer Principal and you are banned from racing.

Your clutch fails and you ask FPV for a new one. They say it failed because you drove it like a race car. You mention it is a race car. They say exactly and void the warranty. You aren't happy about this and call Ford Customer Service who promise to look into it and call you back. They never call.

By the end of lap one the depreciation on your car is still faster than the car can do. Holden is a close second.

You pull in with engine trouble and it looks like they will fit a V6 in the engine bay, then at the last minute they put the old straight six back in. Nothing is heard of the V6 again.

Now that would be more relevant then the car racing we see now.

Nikked · 13-01-2009, 08:53 PM

i dont think fords V8 sales spiked after wins in the past 5 years...

phillyc · 13-01-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

i dont think fords V8 sales spiked after wins in the past 5 years...

I don't think their marketing of those successes spiked either...

PS Holden were advertising during October 2007, "come buy a 'Supercar' an SV6 or SS we have great deals on Australia's favourite car..."

**Dave R** · 13-01-2009, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Maybe if the racing had some more relevance with the real cars...

Your brake rotors warp and you pull into the pits. The pit crew manager says "they all do that" and fixes nothing before waving you back out.

You blow a diff and sit in the pit for eight weeks while Ford gets another one to you.

You get a new race car for the season, but you can't enter the race until you have spoken to the pretty girl about paint protection.

You notice after talking to the pretty girl about paint protection for the car, that your car has been rolled out to the grid and has damage to the rear bar. You ask what happened. The manager denies anything happened and that you must have damaged it on the first corner. You explain you haven't driven the car to the first corner yet, thats why its on the grid. He calls the Dealer Principal and you are banned from racing.

Your clutch fails and you ask FPV for a new one. They say it failed because you drove it like a race car. You mention it is a race car. They say exactly and void the warranty. You aren't happy about this and call Ford Customer Service who promise to look into it and call you back. They never call.

By the end of lap one the depreciation on your car is still faster than the car can do. Holden is a close second.

You pull in with engine trouble and it looks like they will fit a V6 in the engine bay, then at the last minute they put the old straight six back in. Nothing is heard of the V6 again.

Now that would be more relevant then the car racing we see now.

That is gold

but sadly true...

Roland Dane is full of it. You can't compare Europe's market to our market especially when it comes to large performance cars. Plus, he can't assume that the majority of V8 sales are due to V8 Supercars.. most people buy them because they are good cars, not because they win on the weekend.

GTP290 · 13-01-2009, 09:33 PM

What hes saying is correct, no one wants to be afiliated with a losing brand, so when people see Ford winning, it makes the brand look good, it might be a subconcious (I dont think I spelt that correct) feeling, but none the less winning never hurts a brand, just ask HSV!

WASP · 13-01-2009, 11:20 PM

Forget who is saying it or what his agenda might be for a second. Sponsorship as a marketing investment will only work hard for you if you work it hard. Ford teams have had some great success with the V8 Supercars involvement in recent years but have failed to fully exploit this to their full advantage. You get out what you put in with sponsorship. Just throwing money at it will never be enough with sponsorship and will ultimately end is downsizing or withdrawal.

Our late Uncle Geoff understood this well and really 'lived' Ford's involvement. He did his best to reflect their dominance as a performance saloon both the road and race car. He also worked hard to secure likeable driver personalities that became activity involved in their marketing and promotion of the early B-series models. From here it seems to me that Ford has lost some passion for the sport and it shows. Not exactly inspiring stuff to get you into their latest performance V8 model. And before anyone reminds me that V8’s are no longer a desirable option consider this. Performance models sell to buyers that will in most cases pay for the fuel and higher running costs regardless because these are an emotional purchase. The market is still there and a strong V8 performance model will always be desirable with the V8 performance enthusiast. Are there many of these people around? Look at the current V8 Supercar following and decide for yourself. Currently many these people appear to be buying SS Commodores and HSV because it’s becoming common knowledge that to dominate in a Ford, it has to be a turbo six. We as Ford die hard enthusiasts on this forum know they are brilliant but we don’t need to watch the V8 Supercars to get inspired to buy one.

Colville

**Luke Plaizier** · 14-01-2009, 10:10 AM

I wonder if TRD would still be around if they were in V8Supercars....?

Lukeyson

GT450 · 14-01-2009, 12:43 PM

I agree with you Colville that inspiration to buy the current crop of Ford V8s do not come in direct correlation to Fords on track success' .My last 9 vehicles have been either XR8s or GTs and none had anything to do with what happened at the track even though i do get to at least half the championship races in any given year. If that were the case when the AUs were running the only ones Ford would have needed to build were the racing ones.There are plenty of people who buy the performance variants of the two makes who have no idea what's happening on track , in fact i would say the vast majority fall into this category they are just Aussies who have been brought up on the tribal warfare that exists. Roland Dane has been pushing his barrow now to upset Ford in whatever forum he can , it's purely and simply sour grapes because of his teams loss of sponsorship.Do you think he would be saying this if he was one of the chosen teams ? Not likely. Some of what he has to say may be partially true , that is neither hear nor there ,but the reason for another of his outbursts are a calculated design to embarrass Ford for their withdrawal of sponsorship money, nothing more and nothin less.
Cheers
GT450

Late braker · 14-01-2009, 02:31 PM

Some say he is commentating out of frustration that Ford has pulleddirect funding to the team he manages- he should be frustrated and it shows that Ford has misjudged things again. 888 has won nearly everything this year except PI 500 and has figured highly in the season results from 2005 onwards.

Oh, and I bought an 08 XR6 partly due to V8 Supercar and it's not even a V8...

Kieron · 14-01-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT450

Roland Dane has been pushing his barrow now to upset Ford in whatever forum he can , it's purely and simply sour grapes because of his teams loss of sponsorship.Do you think he would be saying this if he was one of the chosen teams ? Not likely. Some of what he has to say may be partially true , that is neither hear nor there ,but the reason for another of his outbursts are a calculated design to embarrass Ford for their withdrawal of sponsorship money, nothing more and nothin less.
Cheers
GT450

Spot on GT450. I wished he'd just shut up and get on with the job. If Ford later reverse their decision on sponsorship, they are going to remember his constant attacks.

It's really turned me off 888 and I don't think i'm alone.

There is no doubt motor racing ultimately ends up in sales, thats the whole reason the manufacturers are in it. Brand awareness, building fans, association with winners and the creation of a new market for performance cars are all part of it.